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John Clow's Manta Ray refurb


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#26 Pablo

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Posted 08 May 2015 - 12:20 AM

Rears trued at 1.076 give me a good 1/16" gear clearance with the 46T spur:

IMG_4731.JPG

 

It helps to spin vintage front tires slowly on the Hudy immediately after mounting to ensure / adjust proper alignment before the glue sets.

Removing the cover from the Hudy was the best advice I ever got, thank you. Finally, now I can see where the rubber meets the road :D

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Paul Wolcott




#27 Pablo

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Posted 08 May 2015 - 10:32 AM

Lams are a little out of whack, but they aren't loose, so I left the arm as is. Shaft is straight

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Polished the comm and shaft

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#28 Pablo

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Posted 08 May 2015 - 11:23 AM

Hey John, if you ever want to overpower this Manta, I found an arm for it in the vintage box of horrors.

This ought to cook your stock endbell no problemo.  Let's see if it fits and I'll spin it up for a second.....

Looks like neutral timing at the solder tabs, but they aren't centered in relation to the comm slots.

I'm guessing it has lots of CW at endbell timing.

If I don't post again for a while, call an ambulance :bomb: :laugh2: :crazy:

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#29 Pablo

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Posted 08 May 2015 - 01:25 PM

Monster arm wouldn't fit this setup, so I live to thrash another day :D

John, the motor is done. Bushings and brushes were in good shape.

The mags were slightly out of position, so they were corrected and Super Glued.

Stock spacers didn't mate well with the bushings so I installed smaller OD, quality items.

Phenolic washer was binding on the hardware so it had to go.

Endbell hardware is aligned and everything is clean.

It's broken in and runs stone cold.

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#30 Pablo

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Posted 08 May 2015 - 06:10 PM

Grandfather of the modern flexi chassis ? Maybe :)

Center section was almost flat - a couple tweaks is all it took. 

Drop arm was bent all over the place. Now it's flat.

The original owner had the lead wires routed between the drop arm and the center section :shok:

No wonder he shelved the Manta long before he wore it out - what little handling it had, was destroyed :laugh2:

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Drop arm needs a slight tilt upwards at the flag due to, well, the nature of the beast.

A piece of .039 wire under the rear compensated for the .040 drop arm to estimate how much tilt it needed.

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Bushings polished with 2,000 grit to remove 45 year old patina

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Dynamic low profile flag, big Classic weight, and some steel spacers. All rotating surfaces were faced, of course.

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One bushing was affixed tight, so I left it in place. The other wasn't, so I aligned and secured it using Gator Bob's method -

gall the upright hole a little then punch it home. Worked like a charm. :)

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Even passes the "axle drops through under it's own weight" alignment test:

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The rest of the parts cleaned up nice with a carbon steel wire wheel. Even the rusty set-screw pinion:

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#31 Gator Bob

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Posted 08 May 2015 - 07:11 PM

I have one of those 'monster arms' its labeled Motors Etc. #3690

Rewound/double shaft/epoxy/balanced.

 

What is it ?... LOL

 

The stock motor will be fine for play laps.... looks good.

 

BTW: FWIW the rounded head screw in the foreground is an original Classic body screw. 


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#32 Pablo

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Posted 08 May 2015 - 07:50 PM

Bob, the monster arm wasn't labeled. I've no idea what it is, or where it came from.

 

Everything on this car appears to be 100% original.

Well, at least it was, before I got hold of it :laugh2:

The side to side drop arm slop is gone, courtesy of 10 thou bronze axle spacers and a custom made brass tubing pivot:

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#33 Pablo

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Posted 09 May 2015 - 11:50 AM

Fronts ended up about .850

IMG_4851.JPG


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#34 Pablo

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Posted 09 May 2015 - 07:34 PM

My wheel and gear balancer only had a 3/32 axle shaft, so I custom made a 36D attachment and a threaded axle attachment.

(note, the tool needed some material removed to accommodate the 46 tooth spur)

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Pinion was heavy on the set screw side, I simply changed to a lighter screw. From left to right: stock, too light, perfect.

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Spur was out of round, wobbly, and way out of balance. I enlarged a couple of the existing holes to balance it.

IMG_4881.JPG

 

Trued, balanced, and polished:

IMG_4891.JPG


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#35 Bill from NH

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Posted 09 May 2015 - 07:57 PM

My wheel and gear balancer only had a 3/32 axle shaft, so I custom made a 36D attachment and a 3/32 threaded attachment.

 

Don't you mean a 1/8" threaded attachment? I don't think 3/32" threaded hubs & gears existed.


Bill Fernald
 

How old should a highway be before you tell it, that it has been adopted?


#36 Pablo

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Posted 09 May 2015 - 08:11 PM

:laugh2:  Thanks Bill, I fixed it


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#37 slotbaker

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Posted 09 May 2015 - 09:13 PM

Pablo, nice work on the Manta Ray so far.

I've got one that I'll Pablo-ise.

 

Hope you don't mind a slight bit of thread drift.

Looking at the balancing setup you have for the axles/gears etc, does the axle need to have perfectly ground conical points at each end?

Just looking at the photo with the pinion, the point on the end of the axle at the left looks to be a bit one sided, which might shift the point of contact with the magnet off the center line of the axle. Resulting in out of balance?

 

Are you able to confirm if that axle is perfectly balanced?

I tend to think the axle would always stop/rest at the same point with the shortest side of the point, at the top.

:huh:


Steve King


#38 Pablo

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Posted 09 May 2015 - 10:04 PM

Thanks Steve :)   slotbaker thread drift is good; I always welcome it.

Your observations and questions are totally valid.

Balancing with a magnetic tool isn't perfect by any means, but these gears were so far off, the improvement was worth it.

PM sent with all the details.


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#39 Pablo

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Posted 10 May 2015 - 01:44 PM

Since all four body mount holes were stripped, I switched to body clips instead of fighting it.

They'll allow the body to float just a little.  Champion T-Flex clips fit perfect, so I painted 'em same color as the motor can :)

Too bad they don't match the Parma Tangerine body paint ^_^

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Drivetrain ready for motor installation.  The rear axle had a flat spot for an inline, so I swapped it for a Professor Motor axle (no flats), tiny brass hex nuts, and 3 prong aluminum knockoffs:

IMG_4896.JPG

 


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#40 Gator Bob

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Posted 10 May 2015 - 04:42 PM

Glad the punch method worked. :good:

 

I did them about .025 further out from the centerline of the axle. It 'deforms' but does not gall and still is hidden by the bushing flange.


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#41 Pablo

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Posted 10 May 2015 - 04:43 PM

Gears lapped with Colgate at 3 V for 15 mins.  Marklin train wires cut extra long to allow for wheelies :)

IMG_4941.JPG


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#42 Gator Bob

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Posted 10 May 2015 - 04:45 PM

Wheelieeeeeeeee  :laugh2:


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#43 Pablo

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Posted 10 May 2015 - 04:48 PM

Thanks Bob. That was the first time I installed bushings by using a hammer and a punch - next time I'll do even better :D

The alignment is perfect, so at least I got the most important part correct.


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#44 Gator Bob

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Posted 10 May 2015 - 05:09 PM

Yup .. In the end the alignment is what's most important.


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#45 Pablo

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Posted 10 May 2015 - 08:22 PM

John, my part is done. I'll let you punch the body clip holes and do the final trimming.....

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#46 slotbaker

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Posted 10 May 2015 - 08:25 PM

Another good way to close up bearing holes is to use a ball bearing and hammer.

You would need a large ball bearing, about 1/2", place the chassis on something solid, sit the BB in the hole, and give it a whack.


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#47 Pablo

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Posted 10 May 2015 - 08:52 PM

Last photo before the Tangerine Manta Ray goes home to Alabama:

IMG_4974.JPG


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#48 Bill from NH

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 06:55 AM

Another good way to close up bearing holes is to use a ball bearing and hammer.

 

 

Micro Mark used to sell a set of different size steel balls mounted on straight handles for this express purpose. Perhaps they still do.


Bill Fernald
 

How old should a highway be before you tell it, that it has been adopted?


#49 Pablo

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 12:31 PM

And you would whack it on which side of the upright ?


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#50 Gator Bob

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 12:34 PM

Outside.

 

Obviously this will need to be done on a more 'malleable' surface.  Wood, plastic ... etc.


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