I suppose that by now, it's no secret I had a particular fondness for the "littlest" Mabuchi. We used to run them in (mostly) fragile/light 1/32 F1 cars. I also wound and smoked more than a few as a kid. More than anything, the magnets were just godawful, and to get any sort of speed out of them meant too much heat for the fragile (even by Mabuchi standards!) endbell. The package was/is so appealing because of its compact/light specifications that it was maddening we couldn't do anything with the darn things. Here's a factory fresh (even with the endbell burned right from the get go!) one.
I'm almost absolutely certain there weren't any upgrade magnets available for "the homeset motor" back then, but there wasn't much good stuff period... at least off the shelf.
Well, decades later and I'm STILL tinkering with the little guys, and there are lots of options for making one into a wolf in sheep's clothing. First step is always taking them apart. Here, you have to deal with the splined shaft, and if you just pull the arm, you'll also be pulling out the "all-but-impossible-to-reinstall" can bushing. You can either slip something in to keep force on the bushing as you pull the arm or just cut off the shaft. I choose the latter most often because I figure those steel splines aren't doing the bushing any favors on the way out. That means... new shaft time:
Once out, the arm is exactly the same as the 16D arm, but with an even milder wind. With the availability of better period commutators such as the Tradeship, the now-too-short shaft and far better ways to insulate the stack than the oversized fiber insulators, all I'll be keeping is the actual stack lams. On most all of the Mabuchi stacks, pressing out the old shaft with a new one will leave the lams loose and flopping everywhere, so you gotta be ready for that... but I have a plan. Also, if you DO keep the insulators and the steel tail spacer, beware of the sharp edges of that tail spacer causing shorts by damaging the magnet wire.
There's a lot going on in the above picture. First off, a set of polymer matrix neos from a burned up "Falcon" type motor were resized a bit to fit and epoxied into the can with a snug-fitting alignment slug. The stock "magnets" measure around 525-ish on my meter. These magnets measure a bit over 1230 installed and, if anything, are even lighter than the originals! Even though they're a bit tall before trimming, they are pretty much the precise length needed and can simply be slid to the magnet-stops when epoxying them in. You could grind a slight bevel at the tips and (after flattening the can tabs) just use two clips to install them, but I like to think it's "better" gluing them in.
Of course, the can got drilled for screw-retaining of the endbell because those tabs WILL fail either the second or third time you open up the motor.
With all those loose lams on the arm, I warm it up in the oven, lightly coat the inside of the lams assembly with epoxy, clamp it on all three poles and put it into the oven to speed cure the epoxy. Afterwards, you can often see a bit of the epoxy has migrated to the outside of the stack, penetrating right through the lams. You can't see it, but it has also gotten in towards the shaft so YOU HAVE TO MAKE SURE THE STACK IS WHERE YOU WANT IT BEFORE CURING!
After it's all cured, you clean all the excess epoxy and cut comm and tail spacers holding them in place with a tiny drop of super glue. While the Tradeship comm has a built-in phenolic spacer, I grind that pretty much off. The reason is that you want the same room top and bottom for winding, or keeping your coils symmetrical is a real bear.
These Tradeship comms have a built-in advance... in this case CW. Normally I'll defeat that by rotating the comm for a CCW advance. It puts the tabs in an awkward position for winding... not a big deal, but this motor will certainly be installed "inline", so all that need be done is flip the crown gear if necessary. Anyhow, the advance was OK, but I went a little past what the comm had... just because!
Lastly, the stack and both spacers got powder coated, here with a 3M material that's easy to use and produces good results. Ready for winding!
Now, with this motor and those neat magnets, a #30 wind makes for a potent package... a MIGHTY potent package. Afterwards, I tied it up "old school" because this wind on this stack is six layers, and those are always less stable than a more typical four-layer wind. After epoxying, balancing, and cutting the comm, it's "almost" time for final assembly, but there are a few mods to take care of on the end bell.
The above-pictured finished motor had to get the endbell drilled to match the can. Then, sleeveing the posts is a really good idea here, even with "only" a #30 wind. The sleeves were made from brass tubing, and the nearest size I could find needed to be drilled out for a VERY snug fit. I then wound a set of springs which in itself is a bit of a deal. These are a special type that need to be wound "backwards", and because of the height difference between the brush and the spring tab, I went "all the way" and made them five coils tall. Because of the springs, the sleeves and the fact that the stock upper brush hood is so close to the spring post... the hoods have to be clearanced enough to allow everything to work, but not so much that the brush isn't fully covered; easy does it!
The finished motor absolutely howls, having the kind of revs and torque that would put a mild period 16D rewind to shame. Sure it "could" go into a little Honda F1 (IF you're man enough to drive such a thing! ), but this motor could also go into a lot of FT16D 1/24 cars and they would benefit from both its power and it's much lighter weight. The deal here is the magnets!
-john
Mabuchi 13UO - Potential for delicate thunder
Started by
havlicek
, Apr 04 2015 07:43 PM
4 replies to this topic
#1
Posted 04 April 2015 - 07:43 PM
- Keith Moister and C. J. Bupgoo like this
John Havlicek
#2
Posted 04 April 2015 - 07:50 PM
Wow! One sweet little pocket rocket of a motor. Would be fun to see if a little F1 could handle the power.
The perfect NeoBuchi.
The perfect NeoBuchi.
- havlicek likes this
#3
Posted 05 April 2015 - 06:20 AM
Hi Paul and thanks.
The little 1/32 inlines were pretty popular when I was a kid. They were light and pretty fragile, but that made them fast enough to be fun on a big track... until they got smacked. Then, if the car was still in one piece, we'd just grab them by the axles and twist them to straighten them out until all the wheels were pretty much touching the track again! Not exactly a high-tech solution, more like a Flintstones solution.
The way inlines are done now with multiple rails and all kinds of bracing would no doubt work MUCH better. This little guy has enough power to push a 1/24 car easily though.
-john
The little 1/32 inlines were pretty popular when I was a kid. They were light and pretty fragile, but that made them fast enough to be fun on a big track... until they got smacked. Then, if the car was still in one piece, we'd just grab them by the axles and twist them to straighten them out until all the wheels were pretty much touching the track again! Not exactly a high-tech solution, more like a Flintstones solution.
The way inlines are done now with multiple rails and all kinds of bracing would no doubt work MUCH better. This little guy has enough power to push a 1/24 car easily though.
-john
John Havlicek
#4
Posted 05 April 2015 - 06:30 AM
I recall that small can motor for the Monogram F1 cars, and back in 1966 (I think) that was everyone's conclusion, weak mags!
I had an older friend who rewound one for me to try and improve performance but then he could do nothing for the magnets. They were great cars with no spunk for the day. With this new motor would you even see a 1/32 F1 moving on the track or just be a lil blur!!
I had an older friend who rewound one for me to try and improve performance but then he could do nothing for the magnets. They were great cars with no spunk for the day. With this new motor would you even see a 1/32 F1 moving on the track or just be a lil blur!!
- havlicek likes this
Paul Bass
#5
Posted 05 April 2015 - 07:34 AM
Hi Paul... and it seems the general experience with the little Mabuchi was pretty universal!
Yeah... rewinds did happen with these motors, but much more than a really mild wind inevitably meant a smoked motor. The best you could do was shim the magnets and, among my friends and I, I seem to remember settling on "dewinding" these. That was a dicey proposition with such thin gauge wire because you'd be at least as likely to break the wire as be successful!
Funny thing, I don't remember anyone simply installing a "warmer" 16D arm, but maybe that's because most of them were endbell drive and the 13UO was always can drive???
Well, this motor would make driving one of those... er... "exciting" for sure. The Harvey Aluminum Special, with more room on the sides for weight/stability would be a great candidate (and that too was one of my favorite bodies as a kid).
My memory of the narrow inlines back then is that they were fishtail-y things to drive, squirting out of corners and seemingly always on the edge of deslotting. Modern inline chassis seem much more driver (and horsepower) friendly. I guess how fast the car would be depends a lot on the chassis. Even this motor would still not be up to a hot period wind, but I wouldn't be surprised if it kept up with a 55t/29 in the right car!
-john
Yeah... rewinds did happen with these motors, but much more than a really mild wind inevitably meant a smoked motor. The best you could do was shim the magnets and, among my friends and I, I seem to remember settling on "dewinding" these. That was a dicey proposition with such thin gauge wire because you'd be at least as likely to break the wire as be successful!
Funny thing, I don't remember anyone simply installing a "warmer" 16D arm, but maybe that's because most of them were endbell drive and the 13UO was always can drive???
With this new motor would you even see a 1/32 F1 moving on the track or just be a lil blur!!
Well, this motor would make driving one of those... er... "exciting" for sure. The Harvey Aluminum Special, with more room on the sides for weight/stability would be a great candidate (and that too was one of my favorite bodies as a kid).
My memory of the narrow inlines back then is that they were fishtail-y things to drive, squirting out of corners and seemingly always on the edge of deslotting. Modern inline chassis seem much more driver (and horsepower) friendly. I guess how fast the car would be depends a lot on the chassis. Even this motor would still not be up to a hot period wind, but I wouldn't be surprised if it kept up with a 55t/29 in the right car!
-john
John Havlicek