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Pittman DC196A - 65X Powerhouse


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#1 dc-65x

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 04:00 PM

This build was a very popular Pittman motor "hop-up" in the mid 1960's. We'll be "pumping up" a DC196A:

Pittman%20196-65X-1.jpg

The "girlie man" armature will be replaced with the 6 volt armature from the DC65X (DC65A-6) 6 volt motor:

Pittman%20196-65X-1a.jpg

While we're at it, the undersized cast rear axle carrier with bronze motor bearings and NO axle bearings is getting dumped. A properly sized (for 1/24 scale anyway :) ) brazed brass Crane unit with full ball bearings is going in:

Pittman%20196-65X-3.jpg

Rather than tear apart two new complete motors, I'll be using factory replacement items and a few used parts:

Pittman%20196-65X-2.jpg

The pole pieces and threaded spacer are new items from EJ's Hobbies. The screws are all stainless steel items from McMaster Carr. And the magnet and rear bearing support are used items. I checked out some magnets from Strombecker's "Pittman clone motors" and they didn't seem any stronger. Since this is a recreation of a 1965 build, neo magnets were not considered:

Pittman%20196-65X-4.jpg

The replacement armature is also from EJ's. The brushes and spring are eBay finds:

Pittman%20196-65X-5.jpg

The He-Man 65X arm has the same comm timing, shaft size and overall diameter of the 196A but that's were the similarity ends:

 

Pittman%20196-65X6.jpg

 

The 65X is longer and has a larger diameter comm:

Pittman%20196-65X-6a.jpg

I've read old period magazine articles where the authors say the 65X arm is a drop in replacement. I believe a fellow Slotblogger had a drop in experience also. But the dozen arms I have are all longer and cause fitment and brush alignment problems:

Pittman%20196-65X-9.jpg

Pittman%20196-65X-9b.jpg

Next up...."a fix".


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#2 SlotStox#53

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 04:18 PM

Always loved that Crane rear end for the 196's. Definitely high up on the *want* list :D

May have a go at fabricating a copy of the rear end for one of my 196B projects :)

Look forward to seeing what this tweaked powerhouse is going in :D

#3 Lone Wolf

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 04:19 PM

I've seen that swap called a drop in in period articles too. Depends where you drop it from I guess :)

 

That Crane piece is truly rare in my opinion, as is anything Crane I believe.

 

Looking forward to the build.


Joe Lupo


#4 dc-65x

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 05:45 PM

At the first vintage Toy Show I went to almost 30 years ago, I bought a Pittman 196 with a Crane rear end. I thought they were cool when I was a kid in 1965 and now I had one again. I was thrilled! I haven't seen them too often since that first one.


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#5 SlotStox#53

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 05:57 PM

Don't think I've even seen one on epay since looking for/ hoarding vintage parts :laugh2:

Only ones I've seen have been on your builds Rick :good:

#6 dc-65x

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 06:20 PM

The last ones I saw on eBay Paul were part of a Pittman motor lot a few years ago. They were attached to motors and everything was a filthy, greasy, rusty, moldy and dirty massed wad of motor junk.....a typical eBay auction. :laugh2:


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#7 SlotStox#53

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 06:47 PM

Thing is the greasy, dirty , rusty lots you tend to win end up hitting the jackpot with parts ! :D

#8 dc-65x

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 08:23 PM

True, but you don't hear about all the losers! :crazy:  :dance3:

 

Anywho, to get the brushes to line up with the comm I drill out the rivet holding the brush plate and flip it around. The hole is filed into a slot and a 2-56 nut soldered in place:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-10.jpg

 

To get more room for the longer arm I use a ball bearing and flip it around to mount from the front. It is solidly soldered in place. Stock piece on the left, modified on the right:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-8.jpg

 

I do the same bearing swap and flip-a-roonie on the rear bearing plate:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-7.jpg

 

The brushes (shown on the top) are shortened a bit with a file and the arms slightly bent to fit the larger comm:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-11.jpg

 

Before static balancing the arm it needs a good coat of epoxy. This keeps the laminations from potentially shifting during the drilling process:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-12.jpg

 

The varnish or whatever Pittman used is not always enough to keep things in place...............


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#9 SlotStox#53

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 09:04 PM

 
The varnish or whatever Pittman used is not always enough to keep things in place...............


Think I remember seeing the outcome of a static balance go wrong on a dc65 arm a while back :shok: With the lams deciding to move & get chewed up! You then bathed the replacement in the Devcon & blasted it with the heat gun :D

#10 Hworth08

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 09:32 AM

Only the best for this build! :)

 

(Well, actually that's the only way Rick does things).


Don Hollingsworth

#11 dc-65x

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 11:05 AM

I'm throwing my best goodies at it Don.  :D  Those hard to find vintage SKF ball bearings seem to fit the undersized Pittman shaft better than modern bearings so they're going in.

 

I checked the arm shaft for straightness and then put her on the "blades". 2 poles were definitely heavy so they got the classic vintage drill balance treatment:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-13.jpg

 

Here's the arm ready for duty:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-15.jpg

 

Pittman%20196-65X-14.jpg

 

Next, I'm going to mount the Howard's Hobby House bearing cups (vintage "duffies") shown above outboard as far as possible.

 

Pittman%20196-65X-16.jpg

 

I machined a couple of reducers to fit in the Crane rear end's 1/4" bearing tubes. A piece of 3/16" tube goes through them and the Hobby House bearing cups are turned down to fit in each end of the tube. :heat:

 

When I solder those reducers into the Crane rear end...........we'll see if its bearing tubes fall off. :shok: If they don't then the Crane really is high temperature silver BRAZED not just silver soldered together............ :unknw:


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#12 Howie Ursaner

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 11:09 AM

I won most of my early races with this. We used the 196b when it came out.. I raced this until i could no longer beat the fastest rewind Mabuchi's..


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#13 dc-65x

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 11:18 AM

Hi Howie,

 

So in your experience during the period, the "B" was at least as fast or faster than the 196-65X.

 

Rodney and I ran a couple of GP cars around Eddie's road course a while back. He had a "B" and I had a 196-65X and they seemed pretty close.


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#14 Gator Bob

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 11:21 AM

Very cool build Rick !

Coming out great ... as is the norm. :good:

 

Could you post the OD of the 65 arm stacks?

Thanks!


Posted Image
                            Bob Israelite

#15 dc-65x

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 11:35 AM

Hi Bob,

 

They're .530".


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#16 Ramcatlarry

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 01:14 PM

In the Chicago area, It was common practice in the mid 1960's to use the larger magnet DC- 60/62 series big blocks with the 65-6 volt arms and the 196 rear carriers.  My  1/32 Chaparrels are still good runners.  This (using the DC-60/62) started in the rail racing group in Aurora when the standard was the 3 pole Tri-ang motors that were common in the early Scalextric cars and part of the early MRRC rail kits we used.


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#17 dc-65x

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 04:13 PM

Neat motor idea Larry. A "big block" 62 frame and magnet, 65-6 arm and 196/Crane axle carrier. I have a new 62B..........hmmmmmm :crazy:


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#18 dc-65x

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 09:17 PM

My Rick's Jig was instrumental in alining all the goodies in the Crane rear end:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-17.jpg

 

Pittman%20196-65X-17a.jpg

 

Everything is soldered up without the Crane piece falling apart thanks to them using high temperature silver brazing:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-18.jpg

 

 

 

Pittman%20196-65X-19.jpg

 

Here's the mockup of the motor to make sure everything fits:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-20.jpg

 

Pittman%20196-65X-20a.jpg

 

Pittman%20196-65X-20b.jpg

 

Time to fab a chassis...............


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#19 SlotStox#53

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 10:14 PM

Is it too early on in the build to utter the word "Sano" ? :D 

 

Seeing such a sweet setup has helped make me want one of those Crane units even more ! :laugh2:

 

Good to see it didn't fall apart, thus proving they really did do a bang up job using the high temp brazing....



#20 hiline2

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 05:34 AM

How likely is it  that someone (anyone) would repo things like the crane end ? :)


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#21 Howie Ursaner

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 10:05 AM

Hey Rick, i ran the "B" with the 65x arm. We cut the axle supports off and with the brushes on top it slipped into an aluminum extrusion. Beautiful work as usual , love your builds.

 

ursaner-1.jpg


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#22 dc-65x

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 10:59 AM

Thanks guys :)

Here are some pictures of Howie's cool car and a link to PdL's thread about it:

 

Restoring Howie's rocketship... circa 1964-65

 

One of the cars we obtained from the small stash of leftover artifacts retained by Howie Ursaner, one of the best slot car drivers ever, is this machine, built, according to Howie, by Bob Emott, while George Blaha is also claiming its construction. Which is correct? Hopefully, Bob will tell us. According to Howie, this car, fitted with either this Lola body or an open-wheel Lotus, won its share of races in the NY area in 1965.
In the meantime, poor me is stuck with restoring it to its former glory . . . laugh.gif

ursaner-1.jpg

It is missing parts, but the main components are here. The frame is made of an aluminum channel in which a modified Pittman DC196B has been fitted.

ursaner-2.jpg

The main frame has been cleaned and straightened.

ursaner-3.jpg

The Pittman DC196 had its axle mount cut off to fit in the new frame.

ursaner-4.jpg

It is held in three places with brass screws. A 10t .093" pinion is mated to a Cox 31t crown gear.

ursaner-5.jpg

The front end is a twist-and-turn fabricated brass tubing and steel wire affair and pivots from the alloy frame. Wire torsion bars insure the proper stance of the front end, and it appears to be well-protected against possible wall encounters.

ursaner-7.jpg

The original had a set of Russkit Lola wheels, these Russkit standard jobs are temporary.

ursaner-8.jpg

The body will be held by a brass pan that was bolted underneath the car, then bolted to balsawood blocks pinned onto the sides of the body, allowing the use of an open-wheel body if required.

smile.gif


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#23 Bill from NH

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 11:01 AM

How likely is it  that someone (anyone) would repo things like the crane end ? :)

 

Paul, I would say not too likely. That Crane motor end was probably last made in the late 60's or early 70's. I don't think any reproductions have been made since. I think it was Larry Shephard who modified a BWA brass motor bracket to fit an open-framed motor a few years ago. It used to be posted on one of the slot car boards, but most of Larry's photos disappeared when Larry passed away.


Bill Fernald
 

I heard they weren't going to make yardsticks any longer.


#24 dc-65x

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 02:16 PM

I've given myself the luxury of having a separate Rick's Jig used exclusively for set up. Acid flux never touches this jig. I can leave components in it and have no worries about corrosion.

 

Here I have the jig set up for the scale tires I'll be using, the motor alignment pins in place and a separate setup for aligning the main rails to the motor mounting plates:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-27.jpg

 

 

Thanks to their precision manufacturing, once I have a setup I like I simply put the pins in the same location in my soldering jig:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-28.jpg

 

With the motor mount/main rails bolted on a U-shaped piece of 1/4 brass is aligned and soldered in place. This will serve as a front body mount and.............

 

Pittman%20196-65X-29.jpg

 

..........drop arm attachment point once the holes are drilled:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-30.jpg

 

The drop arm pivot is a piece of 1/8" rod drilled and tapped 2-56 at each end:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-31.jpg

 

Back in the setup jig to bend the main rails WAY up:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-32.jpg


 

Pittman%20196-65X-33.jpg

 

 

Got to get this baby down LOW..........


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Rick Thigpen
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#25 SlotStox#53

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 05:05 PM

Definitely got it low enough with the rake of the front end ! Looks really good :good:





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