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Pittman DC196A - 65X Powerhouse


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#1 dc-65x

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 04:00 PM

This build was a very popular Pittman motor "hop-up" in the mid 1960's. We'll be "pumping up" a DC196A:

Pittman%20196-65X-1.jpg

The "girlie man" armature will be replaced with the 6 volt armature from the DC65X (DC65A-6) 6 volt motor:

Pittman%20196-65X-1a.jpg

While we're at it, the undersized cast rear axle carrier with bronze motor bearings and NO axle bearings is getting dumped. A properly sized (for 1/24 scale anyway :) ) brazed brass Crane unit with full ball bearings is going in:

Pittman%20196-65X-3.jpg

Rather than tear apart two new complete motors, I'll be using factory replacement items and a few used parts:

Pittman%20196-65X-2.jpg

The pole pieces and threaded spacer are new items from EJ's Hobbies. The screws are all stainless steel items from McMaster Carr. And the magnet and rear bearing support are used items. I checked out some magnets from Strombecker's "Pittman clone motors" and they didn't seem any stronger. Since this is a recreation of a 1965 build, neo magnets were not considered:

Pittman%20196-65X-4.jpg

The replacement armature is also from EJ's. The brushes and spring are eBay finds:

Pittman%20196-65X-5.jpg

The He-Man 65X arm has the same comm timing, shaft size and overall diameter of the 196A but that's were the similarity ends:

 

Pittman%20196-65X6.jpg

 

The 65X is longer and has a larger diameter comm:

Pittman%20196-65X-6a.jpg

I've read old period magazine articles where the authors say the 65X arm is a drop in replacement. I believe a fellow Slotblogger had a drop in experience also. But the dozen arms I have are all longer and cause fitment and brush alignment problems:

Pittman%20196-65X-9.jpg

Pittman%20196-65X-9b.jpg

Next up...."a fix".


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#2 SlotStox#53

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 04:18 PM

Always loved that Crane rear end for the 196's. Definitely high up on the *want* list :D

May have a go at fabricating a copy of the rear end for one of my 196B projects :)

Look forward to seeing what this tweaked powerhouse is going in :D

#3 Lone Wolf

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 04:19 PM

I've seen that swap called a drop in in period articles too. Depends where you drop it from I guess :)

 

That Crane piece is truly rare in my opinion, as is anything Crane I believe.

 

Looking forward to the build.


Joe Lupo


#4 dc-65x

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 05:45 PM

At the first vintage Toy Show I went to almost 30 years ago, I bought a Pittman 196 with a Crane rear end. I thought they were cool when I was a kid in 1965 and now I had one again. I was thrilled! I haven't seen them too often since that first one.


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#5 SlotStox#53

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 05:57 PM

Don't think I've even seen one on epay since looking for/ hoarding vintage parts :laugh2:

Only ones I've seen have been on your builds Rick :good:

#6 dc-65x

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 06:20 PM

The last ones I saw on eBay Paul were part of a Pittman motor lot a few years ago. They were attached to motors and everything was a filthy, greasy, rusty, moldy and dirty massed wad of motor junk.....a typical eBay auction. :laugh2:


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#7 SlotStox#53

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 06:47 PM

Thing is the greasy, dirty , rusty lots you tend to win end up hitting the jackpot with parts ! :D

#8 dc-65x

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 08:23 PM

True, but you don't hear about all the losers! :crazy:  :dance3:

 

Anywho, to get the brushes to line up with the comm I drill out the rivet holding the brush plate and flip it around. The hole is filed into a slot and a 2-56 nut soldered in place:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-10.jpg

 

To get more room for the longer arm I use a ball bearing and flip it around to mount from the front. It is solidly soldered in place. Stock piece on the left, modified on the right:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-8.jpg

 

I do the same bearing swap and flip-a-roonie on the rear bearing plate:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-7.jpg

 

The brushes (shown on the top) are shortened a bit with a file and the arms slightly bent to fit the larger comm:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-11.jpg

 

Before static balancing the arm it needs a good coat of epoxy. This keeps the laminations from potentially shifting during the drilling process:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-12.jpg

 

The varnish or whatever Pittman used is not always enough to keep things in place...............


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#9 SlotStox#53

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 09:04 PM

 
The varnish or whatever Pittman used is not always enough to keep things in place...............


Think I remember seeing the outcome of a static balance go wrong on a dc65 arm a while back :shok: With the lams deciding to move & get chewed up! You then bathed the replacement in the Devcon & blasted it with the heat gun :D

#10 Hworth08

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 09:32 AM

Only the best for this build! :)

 

(Well, actually that's the only way Rick does things).


Don Hollingsworth

#11 dc-65x

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 11:05 AM

I'm throwing my best goodies at it Don.  :D  Those hard to find vintage SKF ball bearings seem to fit the undersized Pittman shaft better than modern bearings so they're going in.

 

I checked the arm shaft for straightness and then put her on the "blades". 2 poles were definitely heavy so they got the classic vintage drill balance treatment:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-13.jpg

 

Here's the arm ready for duty:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-15.jpg

 

Pittman%20196-65X-14.jpg

 

Next, I'm going to mount the Howard's Hobby House bearing cups (vintage "duffies") shown above outboard as far as possible.

 

Pittman%20196-65X-16.jpg

 

I machined a couple of reducers to fit in the Crane rear end's 1/4" bearing tubes. A piece of 3/16" tube goes through them and the Hobby House bearing cups are turned down to fit in each end of the tube. :heat:

 

When I solder those reducers into the Crane rear end...........we'll see if its bearing tubes fall off. :shok: If they don't then the Crane really is high temperature silver BRAZED not just silver soldered together............ :unknw:


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#12 Howie Ursaner

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 11:09 AM

I won most of my early races with this. We used the 196b when it came out.. I raced this until i could no longer beat the fastest rewind Mabuchi's..


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#13 dc-65x

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 11:18 AM

Hi Howie,

 

So in your experience during the period, the "B" was at least as fast or faster than the 196-65X.

 

Rodney and I ran a couple of GP cars around Eddie's road course a while back. He had a "B" and I had a 196-65X and they seemed pretty close.


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#14 Gator Bob

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 11:21 AM

Very cool build Rick !

Coming out great ... as is the norm. :good:

 

Could you post the OD of the 65 arm stacks?

Thanks!


- WDzqYLKlZcbyIJAbLTxE.png

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#15 dc-65x

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 11:35 AM

Hi Bob,

 

They're .530".


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#16 Ramcatlarry

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 01:14 PM

In the Chicago area, It was common practice in the mid 1960's to use the larger magnet DC- 60/62 series big blocks with the 65-6 volt arms and the 196 rear carriers.  My  1/32 Chaparrels are still good runners.  This (using the DC-60/62) started in the rail racing group in Aurora when the standard was the 3 pole Tri-ang motors that were common in the early Scalextric cars and part of the early MRRC rail kits we used.


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#17 dc-65x

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 04:13 PM

Neat motor idea Larry. A "big block" 62 frame and magnet, 65-6 arm and 196/Crane axle carrier. I have a new 62B..........hmmmmmm :crazy:


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#18 dc-65x

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 09:17 PM

My Rick's Jig was instrumental in alining all the goodies in the Crane rear end:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-17.jpg

 

Pittman%20196-65X-17a.jpg

 

Everything is soldered up without the Crane piece falling apart thanks to them using high temperature silver brazing:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-18.jpg

 

 

 

Pittman%20196-65X-19.jpg

 

Here's the mockup of the motor to make sure everything fits:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-20.jpg

 

Pittman%20196-65X-20a.jpg

 

Pittman%20196-65X-20b.jpg

 

Time to fab a chassis...............


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#19 SlotStox#53

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 10:14 PM

Is it too early on in the build to utter the word "Sano" ? :D 

 

Seeing such a sweet setup has helped make me want one of those Crane units even more ! :laugh2:

 

Good to see it didn't fall apart, thus proving they really did do a bang up job using the high temp brazing....



#20 hiline2

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 05:34 AM

How likely is it  that someone (anyone) would repo things like the crane end ? :)


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#21 Howie Ursaner

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 10:05 AM

Hey Rick, i ran the "B" with the 65x arm. We cut the axle supports off and with the brushes on top it slipped into an aluminum extrusion. Beautiful work as usual , love your builds.

 

ursaner-1.jpg


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#22 dc-65x

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 10:59 AM

Thanks guys :)

Here are some pictures of Howie's cool car and a link to PdL's thread about it:

 

Restoring Howie's rocketship... circa 1964-65

 

One of the cars we obtained from the small stash of leftover artifacts retained by Howie Ursaner, one of the best slot car drivers ever, is this machine, built, according to Howie, by Bob Emott, while George Blaha is also claiming its construction. Which is correct? Hopefully, Bob will tell us. According to Howie, this car, fitted with either this Lola body or an open-wheel Lotus, won its share of races in the NY area in 1965.
In the meantime, poor me is stuck with restoring it to its former glory . . . laugh.gif

ursaner-1.jpg

It is missing parts, but the main components are here. The frame is made of an aluminum channel in which a modified Pittman DC196B has been fitted.

ursaner-2.jpg

The main frame has been cleaned and straightened.

ursaner-3.jpg

The Pittman DC196 had its axle mount cut off to fit in the new frame.

ursaner-4.jpg

It is held in three places with brass screws. A 10t .093" pinion is mated to a Cox 31t crown gear.

ursaner-5.jpg

The front end is a twist-and-turn fabricated brass tubing and steel wire affair and pivots from the alloy frame. Wire torsion bars insure the proper stance of the front end, and it appears to be well-protected against possible wall encounters.

ursaner-7.jpg

The original had a set of Russkit Lola wheels, these Russkit standard jobs are temporary.

ursaner-8.jpg

The body will be held by a brass pan that was bolted underneath the car, then bolted to balsawood blocks pinned onto the sides of the body, allowing the use of an open-wheel body if required.

smile.gif


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#23 Bill from NH

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 11:01 AM

How likely is it  that someone (anyone) would repo things like the crane end ? :)

 

Paul, I would say not too likely. That Crane motor end was probably last made in the late 60's or early 70's. I don't think any reproductions have been made since. I think it was Larry Shephard who modified a BWA brass motor bracket to fit an open-framed motor a few years ago. It used to be posted on one of the slot car boards, but most of Larry's photos disappeared when Larry passed away.


Bill Fernald

 

You have to be odd to be #1. :laugh2: 


#24 dc-65x

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 02:16 PM

I've given myself the luxury of having a separate Rick's Jig used exclusively for set up. Acid flux never touches this jig. I can leave components in it and have no worries about corrosion.

 

Here I have the jig set up for the scale tires I'll be using, the motor alignment pins in place and a separate setup for aligning the main rails to the motor mounting plates:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-27.jpg

 

 

Thanks to their precision manufacturing, once I have a setup I like I simply put the pins in the same location in my soldering jig:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-28.jpg

 

With the motor mount/main rails bolted on a U-shaped piece of 1/4 brass is aligned and soldered in place. This will serve as a front body mount and.............

 

Pittman%20196-65X-29.jpg

 

..........drop arm attachment point once the holes are drilled:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-30.jpg

 

The drop arm pivot is a piece of 1/8" rod drilled and tapped 2-56 at each end:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-31.jpg

 

Back in the setup jig to bend the main rails WAY up:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-32.jpg


 

Pittman%20196-65X-33.jpg

 

 

Got to get this baby down LOW..........


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#25 SlotStox#53

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 05:05 PM

Definitely got it low enough with the rake of the front end ! Looks really good :good:

#26 dc-65x

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 08:32 PM

The almost finished chassis:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-34.jpg

 

The top frame rails were left long......for now:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-35.jpg

 

Skinny motor so I might as well put it in a skinny car. :crazy: I added some basic suspension detail to the front:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-36.jpg

 

Pittman%20196-65X-37.jpg

 

I notched the rear bearing gizmos and added these bits:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-38.jpg

 

OK, so what skinny car? How about one of these:

 

 

Jimmy Clark's 1962 British Grand Prix winner:

 

1962-gp-de-gran-bretac3b1a-jim-clark-s-l

 

WEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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#27 SlotStox#53

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 10:55 PM

Not much else to say except Onward!

#28 Hworth08

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 09:23 AM

So simple, so elegant, and the period  so missed by those who experienced it.


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#29 SlotStox#53

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 09:39 AM

So simple, so elegant, and the period  so missed by those who experienced it.


I never experienced that period of slot car history /tech and I miss it . Would love to of been around when these cars were cutting edge :)

#30 dc-65x

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 10:37 AM

So simple, so elegant, and the period  so missed by those who experienced it.

 

I'm hoping the slot car will be the same. A driver's car that can be tail out drifted around corners.....car control not just quick reflexes to punch a car from corner to corner.

 

In the mid 60's I remember everyone running "German" tires and the cars were drifted around the turns. We were fudging scale and running smaller diameter tires. For this car I'm going to try scale size wheels and tires:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-24.jpg

 

1965-ish Russkit wheels, threaded front and set screw rears, Russkit front tires, Ortmann-Russkit rear tires, Revell Lotus "wobbly-web" wheel inserts, beautiful Cox precision flanged aluminum axle nuts and unknown (Aristocraft??) independent rotating front axle. This axle is much more precise and robust than the more common Ulrich junker.

 

If the Ortmann's don't work out I can try some Paul's Slot Car Shop urethane's and as a last resort, period 30mm "Germans".

 

The Revell wheels inserts are .525" and the Russkit wheel ID's are .500" so I bored out the wheels to fit:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-23.jpg

 

Both front and rear tires were glued to the rims and lightly trued:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-25.jpg

 

The tread on the fronts was recut:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-26.jpg

 

I found the different color wheels on this particular interesting:

 

1962-gp-de-gran-bretac3b1a-jim-clark-s-l

 

After painting my wheel inserts I found this picture showing only 1 yellow wheel on the right side:

 

76274041076cd4b59fa598d484974a37.jpg

 

Oh well, maybe he ran 2 yellow wheels in practice? :crazy:


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#31 dc-65x

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 10:42 AM

K&B 4:1 bevel gears:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-39.jpg

 

Russkit slant guide:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-40.jpg

 

Cox Superflex lead wires:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-41.jpg

 

Looks better on the track:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-42.jpg

 

It really scoots! :shok:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-43.jpg

 

Surprising speed, good brakes and smooth predictable handling. What's not to like? This is a good car and very fun to drive.

 

I thought I might have a problem with wheelies since the car is so light. I left the drop arm very basic is case I need to add weight or lock it up solid.......or both:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-35.jpg

 

With the handling OK, I'll beef up the drop arm up a bit..........


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#32 Gator Bob

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 11:14 AM

Well done Captain !  :good:

 

It's a 'classy chassis' for sure. :heart:

 

Thanks for the arm OD dimension.


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#33 Hworth08

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 11:26 AM

Rick, 

 

Don't believe I've ever seen a "bolt-on drop arm" on a scratch built frame but I can see where that could be better.

 

Are the 2-56 screws threaded into a length of 3/32nds tubing placed inside an 1/8th inch tube?

 

Quickly changed drop arms would have been a tuning tool. Different length and weight arms might have been an advantage plus allowing easy repair.

 

Never too old to learn! :)


Don Hollingsworth

#34 Lone Wolf

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 11:58 AM

UMM, Holy s@%t ! Absolutely masterful. 

 

When I look at some of the "sloppy" things they built for magazine articles back in the day they were nowhere near the craftsmanship shown here.

 

Although you make it look easy, It surely is not. 


Joe Lupo


#35 dc-65x

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 12:16 PM

Glad I could help Bob. You know, Bob Braverman built a 1/32 scale (although a rather large 1/32 scale :crazy: ) rail dragster using a Pittman 196. He ran a 12V version on 30V or so. My little car runs so well and seems to still be pulling at the end of my straight even with 4:1 gearing. Makes me want to try a 196/65-6V on a 14V on the strip. :dance3:

 

Hi Don, like you suggest, I wanted to be able to configure the drop arm based on how the car handled...would it be a wheel stander and need a heavier arm for example? As a machinist I was always screwing things together so I just drilled and tapped each end of a piece of 1/8" K&S brass rod 2-56....done.

 

Thanks Joe. Mike Steube's scratch building video really motivated me. He soldered things together and went back with more heat, flux and maybe a tiny bit more solder until the joints were nice and smooth. I do my best to try and do the same thing.

 

That said, I'm not using a Weller electric soldering gun like the guys in the magazines anymore either! :laugh2:


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#36 Gator Bob

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 01:27 PM

:D

 

How about 14.7v ? ;)


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                            Bob Israelite


#37 dc-65x

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 02:32 PM

WEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

scan0204.jpg


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#38 boxerdog

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 03:23 PM

My stock 196-powered 1/32 rail ran 1.502 at the V-town event.on lower voltage and a full 55 feet....I think your hot-rod motor would shock a lot of the big boys in a rail!! Just a thought. 


David Cummerow

#39 dc-65x

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 08:26 PM

I remember your smoke'n 196 rail David. It almost smoked my 3 volt RAM. :shok:  You're right, I do need to build one. :crazy:

 

I finished up the mechanical aspects of the car with a beefed up drop arm with a down stop that also serves as a cross brace:

 

Pittman%20196-65X-44.jpg

 

I fit the down stop arm between the axle tube and the drop arm up stop. The result is very little "drop" (movement) which I think is usually a good thing on today's tracks. But hey, a vintage West Coast car has got to have a drop arm: 

 

Pittman%20196-65X-45.jpg

 

Time to get the body and it's goodies together.........


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#40 mdiv

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 08:28 PM

Looking good, Capt. Rick!

Inspirational to say the least.  Never got to finish mine...

Mikey


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#41 SlotStox#53

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 09:06 PM

My stock 196-powered 1/32 rail ran 1.502 at the V-town event.on lower voltage and a full 55 feet....I think your hot-rod motor would shock a lot of the big boys in a rail!! Just a thought. 


That reminds me... got a couple of 196B's stored ready for action, could be time for an F1 inspired by this amazing build by Rick and mention of your fast 196 dragster David :D

#42 Pablo

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 05:12 AM

Mere words can't possibly do it justice, so I'll just do this: :heart: :heart: :heart:

 

I'd add more but Cheater frowns on too many :D


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#43 dc-65x

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 06:38 PM

"Slowly I turned, step by step, inch by inch"............I get closer to finishing a project. :wacko2: :crazy:

 

I'm using for the body build:

 

An original Lancer Lotus 25 body

Russkit "Praying Mantis" driver

Revell BRM mirrors

Paint brush ferrules for exhaust pipes

1/16" aluminum tube for the roll bar

 

And I thought I was going to make the velocity stacks from 1/8" aluminum tube:

 

Pittman%20196-65X%20Body-%205.jpg

 

After I drilled 1/8" holes in the body I remembered I had 8 smaller diameter, pre-formed velocity stacks left over from a previous build. I came up with a "fix". I used brass axle spacers as a reducer for the smaller stacks:

 

Pittman%20196-65X%20Body-%201.jpg

 

An exhaust "trumpet" made from the donor paint brush:

 

Pittman%20196-65X%20Body-%204.jpg

 

The driver's body and the interior base needed to be clearanced for the motor's brush spring. The mirrors were drilled and fitted with .047" wire mounts. I also inserted wire into the drivers head to hang onto while painting:

 

Pittman%20196-65X%20Body-%203.jpg

 

The body ready for paint:

 

Pittman%20196-65X%20Body-%202.jpg

 

I'm going to try and mix up a green that looks like this picture. I know a picture is not necessarily the exact color of the real car but I kind of like the color:

 

1962-gp-de-gran-bretac3b1a-jim-clark-s-l

 

Here are the ingredients.........we'll see what happens:

 

Pittman%20196-65X%20Body-.jpg

 

Where's the airbrush........... :crazy:


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#44 SlotStox#53

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 06:54 PM

Onward with the airbrush Rick :D

Really love the look of that car in the picture with its odd colored wheels :good:

After some hurried dragster finishing , household renovation and looking at some 1969 race projects ;) , I can see a 196B powered build in the future :)

#45 dc-65x

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 06:57 PM

 

...........I can see a 196B powered build in the future :)

 

You should Paul. It really makes for a fun car. :victory:


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#46 SlotStox#53

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 07:35 AM

Will do Rick :good:

At the Hornchurch club Dad raced at back in the day their lap record for F1's was still held by a 196B powered car when it closed in 69/70. That's even with their 2 club rewinders winding some hot can motors!

#47 dc-65x

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Posted 27 April 2015 - 07:48 PM

I just finished a 1/2 MGD paint job. I tried to mix a more olive green like the picture but I didn't like what I created......kind of a muddy green look. I dumped in some flat sea blue and this is what I ended up with:

 

Pittman%20196-65X%20Body-%206.jpg

 

At least it's a different shade than my other 2 Lotus 25's. :crazy: :wacko2:


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#48 Gator Bob

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Posted 27 April 2015 - 07:51 PM

Looks like you 'nailed it'.


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                            Bob Israelite


#49 SlotStox#53

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Posted 27 April 2015 - 07:54 PM

Nice :good: Sounds like you could mix up a large batch of Lotus specific paint Rick for future projects :)

Only half a MGD paint job,went smoothly then :laugh2:

#50 dc-65x

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Posted 27 April 2015 - 08:06 PM

Thanks Bob :)

 

 

Only half a MGD paint job,went smoothly then :laugh2:

 

Exactly! :crazy:


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