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Endurance car rules for My Series 2015


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#1 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 03:07 PM

What are we doing this year for the endurance races? I was figuring that we were going to run the same chasses as last year (the JK chassis where the motor sits on top of the chassis), JK Retro Hawk motors, MySeries GTP legal bodies, and minimum weight of 101 grams. Does any of the directors want to comment? or racers?


Doc Dougherty
GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
My Series Spring 2016 4" NASCAR, JK LMP State Champion, and Endurance State Champion
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1967 Parma Raceway Indy 500 Champion




#2 Wizard Of Iz

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 04:26 PM

I think that the only change we discussed was to have a weight limit this year. I'll check my notes when I get home.  That would mean the same chassis (Cheetah 21), same JK Hawk Retro motor, and using a My Series-legal GTP body.

 

I know that it was brought up to use a totally stock chassis --- no cutting on the motor mount for example.  My personal opinion is that the smoke is already out of the bottle since you almost had to cut on the chassis back in 2013 when we used the Parma S16D motor.  


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#3 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 07:19 PM

Actually, I would like to suggest (since these are endurance races) that we run IRRA legal GT Coupe bodies. Just like the ones we race at JAX when we race the "flexi" retro cars.  Allow either the 007 or 010 thou bodies. I think that this would be very cool. Most of us have these bodies. Rollin: what do you think?

Since the body mounting holes are higher on the C21 pans versus the C11 pans, we will all have to re-pin the GTP bodies. I would rather buy a separate body dedicated for the C21 chassis.

Actually, we could make the Parma Lola T70 the spec body.


Doc Dougherty
GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
My Series Spring 2016 4" NASCAR, JK LMP State Champion, and Endurance State Champion
My Series 2015 4" NASCAR, GTP and Endurance State Champion
​GRRR 2015 4 1/2" and F1 Champion
​GRRR 2013 & 2014 Evil Flexi Champion
1968 Cleveland Car Model Series race winner - Tom Thumb Raceway, North Royalton, Ohio
​1968 Hinsdale ARCO Amateur runner-up
1967 Parma Raceway Indy 500 Champion

#4 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 01:08 PM

Rollin, for the minimum weight matter, I think that you mentioned 101 grams in an email several months back.


Doc Dougherty
GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
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1968 Cleveland Car Model Series race winner - Tom Thumb Raceway, North Royalton, Ohio
​1968 Hinsdale ARCO Amateur runner-up
1967 Parma Raceway Indy 500 Champion

#5 Wizard Of Iz

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 02:52 PM

Marcus was the original author of the weight rule.

 

I like the idea of using the GT Coupe bodies.  I'd like to hear from the masses regarding a spec body.  


Rollin Isbell
 


#6 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 04:12 PM

Thanks Rollin; I am thinking that it would be cool to run GT Coupe bodies. Thanks for listening.

 

We could specify any IRRA legal GT Coupe body. That way we could race a Chaparral 2D or 2F, Ford GT40 Mk4, Lola T70, Mirage, etc. 

There is a nice listing on the IRRA rules site.


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Doc Dougherty
GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
My Series Spring 2016 4" NASCAR, JK LMP State Champion, and Endurance State Champion
My Series 2015 4" NASCAR, GTP and Endurance State Champion
​GRRR 2015 4 1/2" and F1 Champion
​GRRR 2013 & 2014 Evil Flexi Champion
1968 Cleveland Car Model Series race winner - Tom Thumb Raceway, North Royalton, Ohio
​1968 Hinsdale ARCO Amateur runner-up
1967 Parma Raceway Indy 500 Champion

#7 Danny Zona

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 04:23 PM

I like the weight rule. Especially since there are a few different lighter pans then the orginal pans that can fit on the C21 and might not be noticed.

I think coupes would be cool and a nice change-up.
Test, test, test and go test some more.
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#8 Mike Henry

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Posted 26 April 2015 - 11:46 PM

I think can am or maybe the jk touring car body's would be cool like the Aston Martin,corvette,etc. or maybe a trans am body like Camaros,Amc javelins,mustangs,Etc. that way it could spice it up a bit with body's we don't normally run on flexi chassis
Loose Is fast but the ragged edge is faster

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#9 Michael Rigsby

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Posted 27 April 2015 - 04:50 AM

I like Doc's idea on this.   GT coupes would be a welcome change and make for some great looking cars.


"... a good and wholesome thing is a little harmless fun in this world; it tones a body up and keeps him human and prevents him from souring." - Mark Twain

#10 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 27 April 2015 - 07:36 AM

If we go with the GT Coupe body rule, lets make it easy on whats legal or not legal. Simply say IRRA legal GT Coupe bodies only. These bodies must be 0.010" thick when manufactured. No tape allowed to get an .007" body up to spec. And the max height of the rear of the body is 1 3/8". You are allowed to add a clear 1/2" spoiler attached on the back or from underneath. The 1/2" is measured from the rear of the body work.


Doc Dougherty
GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
My Series Spring 2016 4" NASCAR, JK LMP State Champion, and Endurance State Champion
My Series 2015 4" NASCAR, GTP and Endurance State Champion
​GRRR 2015 4 1/2" and F1 Champion
​GRRR 2013 & 2014 Evil Flexi Champion
1968 Cleveland Car Model Series race winner - Tom Thumb Raceway, North Royalton, Ohio
​1968 Hinsdale ARCO Amateur runner-up
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#11 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 27 April 2015 - 07:43 AM

I vote for no cutting on the chassis.  101 gram rule - yes.  If we get rid of the downforce body, how bout giving my team a 10 lap handicap? :laugh2: 

 

How are teams chosen?  


Charlie McCullough

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#12 Jay Guard

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Posted 27 April 2015 - 09:23 AM

I'm not sure I'll be able to make any races (but I will if possible) but I would vote to use the IRRA GT Coupe body rules.  The IRRA rules are in place and have been proven to "work", no reason to reinvent the wheel.  I would also vote for the minimum weight (101 grams?) rule, no reason to get into a "lightweight war", it will also make the cars a bit more durable.  Just my $.02 FWIW.


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#13 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 27 April 2015 - 10:14 AM

Charlie: the only cutting on the chassis was limited to the motor mounting plate. That must be grand fathered in because we all did it already. However, the only trimming that was allowed was to get the gear ratio and to fit the Parma 16D.  If a chassis had removed more than was necessary, then it is illegal.

 

Jay: I love your two cents worth; I hope we go that route.  Nearly everybody in the MySeries has been exposed to the IRRA GT Coupe body rules or have actually used the rules each month in the GRRR retro racing.


Doc Dougherty
GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
My Series Spring 2016 4" NASCAR, JK LMP State Champion, and Endurance State Champion
My Series 2015 4" NASCAR, GTP and Endurance State Champion
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1968 Cleveland Car Model Series race winner - Tom Thumb Raceway, North Royalton, Ohio
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#14 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 27 April 2015 - 10:17 AM

Another rule: for the endurance racing in the past, we had allowed the motor to be soldered in. Soldering in the motor is much more secure.


Doc Dougherty
GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
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​GRRR 2013 & 2014 Evil Flexi Champion
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#15 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 27 April 2015 - 11:06 AM

Soldering the motor is over rated on the C21 - we run them every week at P-1, they don't need the solder to hold up.  Use the 2 different screws and you're fine, machined thread shiny screw goes in the hole top/forward on the installed motor.  Our weekly B Main proves solder is not needed  :wacko2:  :sarcastic_hand:

 

Grandfather a cut chassis for a time when a different motor was spec??  that doesn't make sense, new chassis is not prohibitively expensive.


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#16 Michael Rigsby

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Posted 27 April 2015 - 11:41 AM

Charlie, some guys only use this for enduro racing. Not everyone runs this chassis on a weekly basis since it's not a My Series regular class. Just grandfather in the previous minor motor box adjustments.Guys like me would balk at running if we had to buy another chassis that is not regularly used.
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#17 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 27 April 2015 - 11:47 AM

Right on, Mike.


Doc Dougherty
GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
My Series Spring 2016 4" NASCAR, JK LMP State Champion, and Endurance State Champion
My Series 2015 4" NASCAR, GTP and Endurance State Champion
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​GRRR 2013 & 2014 Evil Flexi Champion
1968 Cleveland Car Model Series race winner - Tom Thumb Raceway, North Royalton, Ohio
​1968 Hinsdale ARCO Amateur runner-up
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#18 Danny Zona

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Posted 27 April 2015 - 11:54 AM

Charlie, you are my friend and I love helping you out with advice. You are a good up and coming racer.

But I would never run any race if I could not solder my motor in.

I'm not knocking the racing program that y'all run at P1. I hope it keeps going strong. Just not my or many other racers cup of tea.
Test, test, test and go test some more.
You're never fast enough!!! 💯

Luck is the residue of design.

Be a fountain not a drain.

It's not about being right, it's getting it right.

#19 Wizard Of Iz

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Posted 27 April 2015 - 08:03 PM

Let's recap ...

 

Chassis - Cheetah 21 chassis - okay to open up motor bracket for gear mesh.  Nothing extreme.  No parts swapping.  Okay to solder the motor in.

 

Body - IRRA-legal GT Coupe bodies.  .010 Thickness without tape.  IRRA body height.  (Perhaps even a spec body --- JK Lola T70??)

 

Motor - JK Hawk Retro

 

Weight - 101Grams

 

 

Anything else??


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#20 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 27 April 2015 - 08:18 PM

I love it when Terry shows up at P-1 without Dennis, and the enduro is on...Enduro with any rule set, I AM IN!  


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#21 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 07:33 AM

Rollin: I like your recap.  We could go with a spec body. Example of some:

1) JK Lola T70 coupe p/n 71902B, or

2) Parma Lola T70 coupe p/n 1039B

These bodies should be available thru the normal distributor system.


Doc Dougherty
GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
My Series Spring 2016 4" NASCAR, JK LMP State Champion, and Endurance State Champion
My Series 2015 4" NASCAR, GTP and Endurance State Champion
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1968 Cleveland Car Model Series race winner - Tom Thumb Raceway, North Royalton, Ohio
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#22 dalek

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 07:36 AM

I've been running the C-21 chassis for a long time and never had a motor slip (even one time when I forgot to tighten one of the screws).

I'm wondering if soldering the motor helps the car handle better.

I know if you solder the motor you can set it's angle flatter so it's closer to a sidewinder and then tighten the screws (mostly for show maybe).

I wonder if any rules state that the motor has to be flush against the motor bracket.


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#23 Wizard Of Iz

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 07:42 AM

If so, so many of us hadn't already opened up the motor bracket when we were running the Parma S16D to get a gear mesh, then you might convince me to stay totally stock on the chassis.

 

I own two of these chassis .... one to race and one to loan .... and they only get used at this event so I'm not crazy about buying a new chassis to run this class.


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#24 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 08:20 AM

Rollin: I am with you on this matter. Run the C21 chassis that we have been running even though the motor mounting plate was slightly modified for a gear ratio. However, I know there are some chasses that had the top 1/4 to 1/2 or the back 1/4 of the motor mounting plate removed. These chassis are illegal because in the beginning when we did this, it was stated only remove what was absolutely needed to be removed. But as racers go, some cut off the top half of the bracket. We must make it clear before the first race, if too much of the bracket was cut away, then it is illegal. Buy a new one.


Doc Dougherty
GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
My Series Spring 2016 4" NASCAR, JK LMP State Champion, and Endurance State Champion
My Series 2015 4" NASCAR, GTP and Endurance State Champion
​GRRR 2015 4 1/2" and F1 Champion
​GRRR 2013 & 2014 Evil Flexi Champion
1968 Cleveland Car Model Series race winner - Tom Thumb Raceway, North Royalton, Ohio
​1968 Hinsdale ARCO Amateur runner-up
1967 Parma Raceway Indy 500 Champion

#25 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 11:12 AM

How are teams chosen?  

 

Are teams picked with captains, or do we go find a teammate?  


Charlie McCullough

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#26 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 11:22 AM

If things stay the same, the endurance races are run as a minimum of 2 drivers per team. For the most part there were 2 man teams, with a couple three man teams. We find our own teammates. Last year, Dennis and Terry teamed up, and Matt and I teamed up.


Doc Dougherty
GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
My Series Spring 2016 4" NASCAR, JK LMP State Champion, and Endurance State Champion
My Series 2015 4" NASCAR, GTP and Endurance State Champion
​GRRR 2015 4 1/2" and F1 Champion
​GRRR 2013 & 2014 Evil Flexi Champion
1968 Cleveland Car Model Series race winner - Tom Thumb Raceway, North Royalton, Ohio
​1968 Hinsdale ARCO Amateur runner-up
1967 Parma Raceway Indy 500 Champion

#27 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 12:25 PM

Fast Enduro Teammate Wanted - I will provide car(s) and any parts we need, and if we podium, I buy the race fees!  

B) Of course your name has to begin with one of these and can be no more than 6 letters in first name: T, D, M, or N  :pardon:

Are team mates required to be from the same home track? Let the lobbying begin!


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#28 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 28 July 2015 - 05:59 PM

Due to the fact that it takes a long time to break-in the JK Retro Hawk, there is a tentative plan to pre-break-in the handout motors prior to the first race. What do you guys think? Is this beneficial?


Doc Dougherty
GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
My Series Spring 2016 4" NASCAR, JK LMP State Champion, and Endurance State Champion
My Series 2015 4" NASCAR, GTP and Endurance State Champion
​GRRR 2015 4 1/2" and F1 Champion
​GRRR 2013 & 2014 Evil Flexi Champion
1968 Cleveland Car Model Series race winner - Tom Thumb Raceway, North Royalton, Ohio
​1968 Hinsdale ARCO Amateur runner-up
1967 Parma Raceway Indy 500 Champion

#29 Wizard Of Iz

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Posted 28 July 2015 - 08:20 PM

Not all Hawk Retro motors take the same time to break in.  I'd rather take my chances with a fresh motor.

 

And ..... from Terry's comments on Sunday, I presume we're committed to using a GTP body.


Rollin Isbell
 


#30 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 28 July 2015 - 09:12 PM

The body issue was going to be my next post. Bill is on board to go with the GT Coupe body. Marcus seemed OK with it. You seem behind. Or has that changed?

I would prefer to go with the GT Coupe body also.


Doc Dougherty
GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
My Series Spring 2016 4" NASCAR, JK LMP State Champion, and Endurance State Champion
My Series 2015 4" NASCAR, GTP and Endurance State Champion
​GRRR 2015 4 1/2" and F1 Champion
​GRRR 2013 & 2014 Evil Flexi Champion
1968 Cleveland Car Model Series race winner - Tom Thumb Raceway, North Royalton, Ohio
​1968 Hinsdale ARCO Amateur runner-up
1967 Parma Raceway Indy 500 Champion

#31 Wizard Of Iz

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 05:14 AM

I'm fine with either body. Might have been nice to have a change but we have , as usual, waited too long.

We need a benevolent dictator

Rollin Isbell
 


#32 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 11:19 AM

We are 6 weeks away from the first endurance race. Besides, this conversation was started couple months back.


Doc Dougherty
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My Series Spring 2016 4" NASCAR, JK LMP State Champion, and Endurance State Champion
My Series 2015 4" NASCAR, GTP and Endurance State Champion
​GRRR 2015 4 1/2" and F1 Champion
​GRRR 2013 & 2014 Evil Flexi Champion
1968 Cleveland Car Model Series race winner - Tom Thumb Raceway, North Royalton, Ohio
​1968 Hinsdale ARCO Amateur runner-up
1967 Parma Raceway Indy 500 Champion

#33 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 12:35 PM

C21 chassis, RH Motor, and which body now?


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#34 Wizard Of Iz

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 02:14 PM

I'm kind of enjoying reverting to being just another racer!!!  But since I helped create this mess, I've sent Bill, Greg, and Marcus an email to get a definitive decision.  I'll post when I get a reply.


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#35 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 04:12 PM

Charlie, the decision on the body will be made within 2 weeks. I proposed several months back to use IRRA GT Coupe bodies. At the time, Rollin was for it. I know Terry is very much against it. Bill, Greg, and Marcus will make the decision soon enough. They are in contact on this matter by email as I write this.


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#36 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 05:23 PM

I don't have any of those bodies.  I hope I don't have to buy more, the downforce GTP bodies are great.  I'm with Terry.


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#37 Gator Bob

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 05:56 PM

Not to oversimplify the issue but ... shouldn't it be one of the existing 2016 MySeries class rule set for the enduro part of the season?

 

If there is three races this year, pick 3 different existing classes. ...

 

 

IIRC .. the few I ran were LMP.

Just a suggestion ... nothing to get wound up about.


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                            Bob Israelite

#38 Wizard Of Iz

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 08:01 PM

Not to oversimplify the issue but ... shouldn't it be one of the existing 2016 MySeries class rule set for the enduro part of the season?

 

If there is three races this year, pick 3 different existing classes. ...

 

 

IIRC .. the few I ran were LMP.

Just a suggestion ... nothing to get wound up about.

 

 

Bob ..... the Enduro cars are their own class.  That's why we don't use one of the existing classes.

 

The past two years we have used GTP bodies for on the Cheetah 21 chassis for the Enduro races.  The first year we used the now-nearly-unobtanium Parma S16D.  Last year we used the JK Hawk Retro.


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#39 Danny Zona

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 10:01 PM

 
 
Bob ..... the Enduro cars are their own class.  That's why we don't use one of the existing classes.
 
The past two years we have used GTP bodies for on the Cheetah 21 chassis for the Enduro races.  The first year we used the now-nearly-unobtanium Parma S16D.  Last year we used the JK Hawk Retro.

I believe at one race we even used the Chinese arm puppy dog motor.
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#40 Gator Bob

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 12:57 AM

I thought the trophy has been running longer than 3 years and dated back to the FL tagged arm days.

 

Wasn't there a pre retro hawk FK motor race? ... that may have been more than 3 years or outside of the series.

 

Danny, did those make the race? .. or smoke.


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#41 Wizard Of Iz

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 09:34 AM

I believe at one race we even used the Chinese arm puppy dog motor.

 

 

You, sir, are correct.  That was at the now-legendary SCR&H in Jacksonville in 2012.  I had obviously tried to wipe that memory from my brain.  

 

Four of the nine teams got through the day with one motor.  The rest of us made at least one motor change.  At least one. The motor change you did that day is still one of the quickest flexi-chassis motor changes I've ever seen.

 

Between what "poofed" in practice and the race, we distributed/sold something like 25 motors that day for the nine teams that entered.  

 

 

 

 

 

I thought the trophy has been running longer than 3 years and dated back to the FL tagged arm days.

 

Wasn't there a pre retro hawk FK motor race? ... that may have been more than 3 years or outside of the series.

 

Danny, did those make the race? .. or smoke.

 

 

The trophy goes back to September 2011.  Jacksonville racer and former track owner, Buddy Houser had the idea to run an Enduro at Bill's track to give business a little shot in the arm as that wasn't too long after Bill moved to his current location.  Then we ran a follow-up Enduro in Jacksonville in December of 2011 to do the same for SCR&H's business.  Those races were put together on pretty short notice so we used our existing My Series GT1 cars -- and used these races to introduce the Hawk 6 as the class had been just the Hawk 7 prior.

 

I don't recall ever using the FLA16D armature in an Enduro.  Doesn't mean it didn't happen somewhere back in time as that armature has been around since 2008.

 

The popularity of the races in 2011 and 2012 led to the Series creating a more formal schedule for the Enduros in 2013 and 2014 to take the Enduro races to each raceway.


Rollin Isbell
 


#42 Wizard Of Iz

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 10:15 AM

I'm kind of enjoying reverting to being just another racer!!!  But since I helped create this mess, I've sent Bill, Greg, and Marcus an email to get a definitive decision.  I'll post when I get a reply.

 

 

Charlie, the decision on the body will be made within 2 weeks. I proposed several months back to use IRRA GT Coupe bodies. At the time, Rollin was for it. I know Terry is very much against it. Bill, Greg, and Marcus will make the decision soon enough. They are in contact on this matter by email as I write this.

 

 

I don't have any of those bodies.  I hope I don't have to buy more, the downforce GTP bodies are great.  I'm with Terry.

 

 

I've heard back from Bill speaking for the remaining track owners that they're staying with the GTP body for the Enduro races.


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#43 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 03:49 PM

I think that the MySeries directors have made a decision. We will be using the same rules as last year so we will be using GTP bodies. Only one new rule: minimum weight of 101 grams.


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#44 Michael Rigsby

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 05:47 PM

 

 

You, sir, are correct.  That was at the now-legendary SCR&H in Jacksonville in 2012.  I had obviously tried to wipe that memory from my brain.  

 

Four of the nine teams got through the day with one motor.  The rest of us made at least one motor change.  At least one. The motor change you did that day is still one of the quickest flexi-chassis motor changes I've ever seen.

 

Between what "poofed" in practice and the race, we distributed/sold something like 25 motors that day for the nine teams that entered.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The trophy goes back to September 2011.  Jacksonville racer and former track owner, Buddy Houser had the idea to run an Enduro at Bill's track to give business a little shot in the arm as that wasn't too long after Bill moved to his current location.  Then we ran a follow-up Enduro in Jacksonville in December of 2011 to do the same for SCR&H's business.  Those races were put together on pretty short notice so we used our existing My Series GT1 cars -- and used these races to introduce the Hawk 6 as the class had been just the Hawk 7 prior.

 

I don't recall ever using the FLA16D armature in an Enduro.  Doesn't mean it didn't happen somewhere back in time as that armature has been around since 2008.

 

The popularity of the races in 2011 and 2012 led to the Series creating a more formal schedule for the Enduros in 2013 and 2014 to take the Enduro races to each raceway.

 

The motor we used was the homeset Pro Slot motor with Chinese arm. I told them when they announced it that was a really bad decision, but no one listened.

 

Three teams blew their motors up in practice, Rollin and I got lucky enough to make it 3/4 of the way through before our turkey cooked...then I was too slow getting the replacement motor in.  At least we had a good handling car....it was on rails that day.  If I remember correctly.....Rollin took satisfaction in hammering both the motor that blew and the one we finished with into submission...it was a fitting end to a lousy idea....

 

Mike


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#45 Mike Henry

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 09:20 AM

Racing the enduros with the hawk motors was fun because it put a little strategy in the mix you could gear it up for power and it would scream but most likely wouldn't make it or you went conservative and geared it to last and hoped everyone else had problems

but I seem to recall quite a few went for power the first few times and 2 young punks from jax stole the show lol
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#46 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 11:40 AM

Mike, are you bragging?


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#47 Mike Henry

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 12:59 PM

Nope cause you old guys will point out how many times those punk ran last to y'all that same year
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#48 cookie4524

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 12:24 PM

Are the front wheels required to be touching the ground?


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#49 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 12:49 PM

Sean, you don't want the fronts to touch,  put the axle thru the top hole.


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#50 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 01:02 PM

Sean, no, the front wheels do not have to touch the ground. As Charlie said, put the axle thru the top hole.


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