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JK RTR Indy Car class rules for My Series 2015


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#1 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 03:15 PM

After the endurance race is over, are we going forward with the idea to run a race for the JK RTR F1 cars? And how much can we do to make the cars more race-able and not clobber the RTR concept?

I have already purchased a car from Marcos. The car runs very well out of the box, but there are a few issues. The lead wires hold the front of the body up and the rear wing area of the body is very weak.

What do you guys want to do about the car rules?


Doc Dougherty
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#2 Wizard Of Iz

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 04:19 PM

Good conversation starter.

 

I love the idea of keeping them as close to stock/rtr as possible.  I need to order one for the shop so we can take a look.

 

Initial thoughts without seeing a car.  Do not take my comments as the rules.  We're just talking here --- Keep the stock gear ratio, ride height, body thickness, front tire size.  Perhaps allow independent rotating fronts (if they're not already) or at least allow fingernail polish on the fronts.  Allow bullet-proofing.


Rollin Isbell
 


#3 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 04:29 PM

To all, this thread is just a conversation starter. So lets hear from the racers and the MySeries directors.


Doc Dougherty
GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
My Series Spring 2016 4" NASCAR, JK LMP State Champion, and Endurance State Champion
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#4 MSwiss

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 04:44 PM

If it's the new wide car, you might want to title your post as a RTR Indy or open wheel car.

As far as I know, there isn't any F1 bodies for these cars.

Feel free to delete this as appropriate.

Mike Swiss
 
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#5 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 05:44 PM

Mike, You are right. My RTR car has the Target Indy car body on it; #10 in fact. BTW: this RTR weighs in at 103.4 grams.
Here is a pic.

JK's part number is: JK20817210.

IMG_2269.JPG
Doc Dougherty
GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
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#6 Wizard Of Iz

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 06:36 PM

Doc .... Very appropriate that you chose the Target paint scheme.  Now I have something to aim at instead of just taking a wild chance of hitting your car.


  • DOCinCocoa and Larry Granger like this

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#7 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 07:09 PM

Nice..... At least its my favorite color.


Doc Dougherty
GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
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#8 Michael Rigsby

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 08:08 PM

Rollin, is this just a rehashed version of the one we ran at Jax a couple of years ago on the Florida Orange using Hawk 7s, Cheetah 7 Indy chassis, and the current Indy body for back then? It was a flash in the pan then and didn't last long and just about everyone at the raceway got rid of theirs.
 
They were fun on the Orange, less so on the hillclimb, and why try them again?
 
At least on this one he redid the chassis somewhat... making it look like a hodgepodge of parts with a less than scale-looking body. May handle slightly better, but looks less like a race car than the old ones did.
 
Verdict... been there done that


"... a good and wholesome thing is a little harmless fun in this world; it tones a body up and keeps him human and prevents him from souring." - Mark Twain

#9 MSwiss

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 11:20 PM

This is a totally different animal than the C7 based open wheel cars of years ago.

Less scale looking body?

That's what the Indy cars looks like now.
http://www.isobbs.co...ccf8a444d42&i=3

Like Dan mentioned, these cars run well.

PS-I think the lead wire issue can be cured by doing loops and soldering the wires almost straight into the clips.

Mike Swiss
 
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Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
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#10 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 09:06 AM

Mike R: Like Mike S said its a new car. Runs very well, I was pleasantly surprised. The car has a hawk 7 motor in it. I will check to see if the comm is wrapped or not.

 

Mike S: I am thinking like you concerning the lead wires. I was planning on running them straight back from the guide clips and form a loop behind the front axle.


Doc Dougherty
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#11 Fast Freddie

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 09:32 AM

I know I don't race in your series but here's what I did since we run the C11 chassis in the Gaithersburg 1100. I used the smaller wire it's the white stuff Casey Scott sells. Loop each strand one time around an arm tube and let it sit for an hour or so. I usually tape the long ends to a tech block. The loops come out perfect and fit nicely between the front struts and within the body, under the front axle. No binding at all. As for the rear wing section I would suggest an angle bent piece of bullet proofing and either staple one side or use the Tenacious Tape to make sure it stays in place. I do this on my Red Fox F1 and Indy bodies.
Fred Younkin

#12 Zippity

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 09:55 AM

How to run the wires from the motor to the guide flag so as to NOT lift the front of the body:

 

View here



#13 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 11:21 AM

Thank you Ron. I think the middle one or right side wire setup is the way I was going to go. The RTR car is similar to the left side photo. It lifts up the front of the body. You can see the lead wires in my photo above if you look close enough.


Doc Dougherty
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#14 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 03:27 PM

Don't tell DOC about Casey's wire - he's fast enough already... :king:


Charlie McCullough

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#15 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 03:40 PM

Charlie, I already have Casey's lead wire.


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Doc Dougherty
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#16 Gator Bob

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 04:02 PM

The BPR 'Pinch' as used in SCRRA F1 would probably get the centering job done on these.


Posted Image
                            Bob Israelite

#17 GW/TRP

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Posted 16 April 2015 - 05:36 PM

Hey Doc,

 

I think it is a good idea to discuss this class openly so we can all decide what we want with a possibility for next years MySeries.  I would like to have a RTR class for everyone especially new racers.  Using the KISS method would allow no changes only the same aftermarket products with the same specifications.  We could use the same two compounds of JK tires like the endurance series cars.  That's it!!! 

 

Best Regards,

Greg Walker

The Race Place


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#18 Ramcatlarry

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Posted 16 April 2015 - 05:56 PM

The new frame is the newer x-25 type center section and both the traditional narrow and 'new indy' wide pans are available.  The narrow pans fit all of the older F-1/indy bodies,   Review the older "JK SPEC CLASS" rules.  We may use a similar idea in Chicago area in the near future.


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#19 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 16 April 2015 - 07:09 PM

Greg, I agree. That's why I started this post. We could carry forward any RTR car class that we race during the last 4 months of this year into next year. But even with a RTR car class, the fast guys will still win the races. So, I suggest that we run an RTR car class but split the field between expert (the main MySeries guys) and new guys. We could run together, but the new guys compete for their own plaques and driver points. I think that the fast guys scare off new participants. When I started back in 2010, I wondered if I would ever be able to beat Dennis, Terry, Matt, and a few others. Hey, look at me now. I can win 1 out of 100. :D


Doc Dougherty
GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
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#20 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 16 April 2015 - 07:16 PM

Larry, thank you for your post. I don't know if you are hurting for new racers in the Chicago area, but we could use new racers in Florida. And as Greg said above, I believe that an RTR car class is the way to go. However, the new guys should compete for their own prizes.  Also, the RTR nature must be preserved. Spec tires, maybe spec gear ratio, minimum weight, etc.

 

One thing we do in the MySeries is to have a random pick for some race bucks after each car class is over. The last finishing drivers gets to pull a card first. The winner gets the last remaining card.


Doc Dougherty
GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
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#21 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 07:30 PM

OK, this topic got derailed for a few months, but now I have talked to Greg Walker, Bill Pinch and Marcus Ramos.  Previously Rollin has made his views known. So here we go. The MySeries directors have tentatively agreed to the following rule set.  The objective of this rule set is to keep the car as close to RTR (out-of-the-box) as possible. So, a good driver could walk into the store, buy the RTR car, put it on the track and be very competitive.

 

Limitations:

minimum weight: 101 grams

Max front and rear track width: 3 1/4"

Rear clearance: 1/16" under chassis and gear

Minimum rear tire OD: 0.75"

Gear ratio: 10T/37T

Tires: must be JK brand on plastic hubs

Motor; JK Hawk 7

Must use both motor screws to secure motor to motor plate. Screws must be tight.

Normal Maintenance Items:

Replace front and rear bushings

Replace front and rear axle with similar axle type

Replace braid (ok pretty obvious)

Replace JK 10T pinion with any brand 10T pinion

Replace 37T spur gear with any brand 37T gear

Replace JK Hawk 7 motor

Replace body with any other RTR Indy car body from JK.

Replace guide flag with any brand guide flag.

Replace front and rear tires with JK similar tire.

Allowed modifications: (If your mod is not on this list, its illegal).

Add stiffener (tape or body armor) to front nose section of body between the front tires and to rear wing.

Re-route lead wires.

Add lead weight to top of chassis

Trim body for front axle clearance.

Fix body clips to body.

May add a solder joint between the motor can and chassis.

Apply guide flag spacers to guide flag post.

 

Driver classes: the directors feel that two driver classes will divide the field into Expert and Novice/Beginners. The driver classes will conduct their own race so as to provide turn marshals. Each driver class will have 1st, 2nd and 3rd plaques.  The MySeries directors will determine who is an Expert or Novice. Obviously, if you have finished on the podium of any MySeries race, you are an Expect. Enjoy it!

 

Rollin: I know that this has not been discussed recently with you or Johnny. What do you think?

 

Comments from the racers are welcome.


Doc Dougherty
GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
My Series Spring 2016 4" NASCAR, JK LMP State Champion, and Endurance State Champion
My Series 2015 4" NASCAR, GTP and Endurance State Champion
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1967 Parma Raceway Indy 500 Champion

#22 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 01 July 2015 - 12:16 PM

Another "allowed modification" needs to be added. It is permissible to remove or add 3/32" axle spacers to the front and/or rear axles.


Doc Dougherty
GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
My Series Spring 2016 4" NASCAR, JK LMP State Champion, and Endurance State Champion
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#23 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 01 July 2015 - 12:22 PM

During the GRRR event at P1 raceway, we had a brief discussion on the JK RTR Indy car rules. It was felt that it should be stated that you can not solder the front bushings in place. However, I pointed out that since this modification from the RTR nature of the car is not among the "allowed modifications", then it is illegal. We cant possibly list all items that are not allowed because then we would be forever doing this. Its a lot more simple to list the allowed changes.


Doc Dougherty
GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
My Series Spring 2016 4" NASCAR, JK LMP State Champion, and Endurance State Champion
My Series 2015 4" NASCAR, GTP and Endurance State Champion
​GRRR 2015 4 1/2" and F1 Champion
​GRRR 2013 & 2014 Evil Flexi Champion
1968 Cleveland Car Model Series race winner - Tom Thumb Raceway, North Royalton, Ohio
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#24 Jay Guard

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Posted 01 July 2015 - 12:53 PM

Hi Guys:

 

When I'm "In Town" I'll be running the new JK Indy class, I love open wheelers.  My only comment is that I'd much rather use the Retro Hawk as opposed to the Hawk 7 but that would necessitate a motor change, not a problem for me but of course may be for a lot of others.

 

Hey, here's a (maybe crazy) idea though... Have the Novice class use the Hawk 7's but require the Experts to run Retro Hawks and run them all in one race.  It would sure give the novice guys an advantage and you would only have to run one race which would allow the out-of-towners to get home a bit earlier.  If an expert buys a new RTR car the track owner could swap the Hawk 7 for a Retro Hawk.  He could then just put it in his show case as never run "take out" for say a buck off. I think that might be a fun race!


Jay Guard
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Flat Track Fanatic


#25 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 01 July 2015 - 01:44 PM

ANY 64p Gears should be allowed.  Why does the class require JK tires?  Novice...its about time you guys let me win something  :diablo:  :sarcastic_hand:


Charlie McCullough

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#26 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 01 July 2015 - 03:14 PM

Charlie, Only JK tires; the RTR car comes with only JK tires. We do not want people spending a lot of money trying to figure out the best tire. Totally unnecessary.  Just stick with the notion that its an RTR car class.  About the gears: the rules states any brand 37 tooth gear. We should have stated: any brand 64 pitch 37 tooth gear.

 

Jay, the Hawk 7 motor is faster than the JK Retro Hawk and is more reliable since it been coming with the comm wrapped.  We will stick with the Hawk 7. The car class is RTR.

 

The first RTR race will be at Melbourne in September. Jay, I hope to see you there. I think that you will be running as an expert driver.


Doc Dougherty
GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
My Series Spring 2016 4" NASCAR, JK LMP State Champion, and Endurance State Champion
My Series 2015 4" NASCAR, GTP and Endurance State Champion
​GRRR 2015 4 1/2" and F1 Champion
​GRRR 2013 & 2014 Evil Flexi Champion
1968 Cleveland Car Model Series race winner - Tom Thumb Raceway, North Royalton, Ohio
​1968 Hinsdale ARCO Amateur runner-up
1967 Parma Raceway Indy 500 Champion

#27 Wizard Of Iz

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Posted 01 July 2015 - 07:23 PM

Considering our current "hiatus" status, I'm not sure it would be fair for me or Johnny to comment on the rules for the Series.  

 

My personal opinion is that it sounds like you guys have nailed it on the rules.  Keep it as close to stock as possible.


Rollin Isbell
 


#28 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 01 July 2015 - 08:14 PM

Rollin: your and Johnny's opinion are always respected. As far as I am concerned you guys are still among the directors on MySeries. Looking forward to seeing you at the next race.  I think that Greg, Phil or you can add these rules to the MySeries website.


Doc Dougherty
GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
My Series Spring 2016 4" NASCAR, JK LMP State Champion, and Endurance State Champion
My Series 2015 4" NASCAR, GTP and Endurance State Champion
​GRRR 2015 4 1/2" and F1 Champion
​GRRR 2013 & 2014 Evil Flexi Champion
1968 Cleveland Car Model Series race winner - Tom Thumb Raceway, North Royalton, Ohio
​1968 Hinsdale ARCO Amateur runner-up
1967 Parma Raceway Indy 500 Champion

#29 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 01 July 2015 - 08:18 PM

BTW: I want to volunteer to be the tech inspector. However, someone will have to tech my car. I am guaranteed to pass my own car. :)


Doc Dougherty
GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
My Series Spring 2016 4" NASCAR, JK LMP State Champion, and Endurance State Champion
My Series 2015 4" NASCAR, GTP and Endurance State Champion
​GRRR 2015 4 1/2" and F1 Champion
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#30 MG Brown

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Posted 01 July 2015 - 10:41 PM

I am an outsider here but want to assure you that your rule set looks similar to what is being run in South Bend at Thazer raceway where on any given night anyone who enters has a chance at a podium. It has become a popular class there due to the KISS nature of the rules.

 

I wanted to mention that JK has a clear and untrimmed version of the DW12 Dallara body that many Thazer racers paint up in their favorite colors (check new JK Indy Car thread here: http://slotblog.net/...ndy-car-bodies/ for pix). Might this be an option if standard open wheel body trim paint and detail rules are applied?

 

Lastly you may want to mention what JK stock numbers are legal to lessen confusion since there was an older JK RTR/body of the Indy Lola. Also there are (IIRC) 3 rear hub sizes and at least two compounds for each hub size made by JK that fit these cars and would be legal within your rules as currently written. Specifying the rear hub size as on the RTR would limit rear tire choice to the natural and treated rubber compounds only- of course if this is what you would want to do...


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#31 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 08:31 AM

MG: your comments are well taken, especially the first paragraph. We wanted to keep the rules very simple and not allow very many modifications. As I stated above in another post, the objective is to create a car class whereby a good driver can come into the slot car shop, buy the car, and be competitive. And, we wanted a car class to attract new drivers into the MySeries races. A car class where all the little tricks that I might do to the car are not allowed, thus keeping the novice driver in the hunt.

 

Concerning the tires, any JK rear tire is allowed. So you have treated or untreated tires to choose from and 3 or 4 rim sizes.


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#32 Danny Zona

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 09:18 AM

I assume JK wonder rubber is allowed also.
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#33 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 10:12 AM

Check with Greg. But I am thinking that the answer is yes. We must be able to confirm that its a JK tire.


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#34 MSwiss

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 11:01 AM

JK, of course, sells a Wonder rubber tire.

He also has (less distinct to the brand) metal rim tires.

You might want to ban them to avoid confusion.

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#35 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 11:11 AM

I agree Mike. Plastic hubs only. The last "normal maintenance" item says "replace front & rear tires with JK similar tire". The RTR car comes with plastic hub tires, therefore, the metal hubs are illegal. 

 

And I think that we must enforce the rules in a very strict sense. It is the responsibility of the racer to know the rules and present a legal car to the tech inspector. Nuff said. No one will be able to claim ignorance.  Every racetrack will be given several copies of the rules.


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#36 Tim Neja

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Posted 03 July 2015 - 06:43 PM

This would be a very fun class!! KISS rules and fun handling RTR cars!  Great idea!


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#37 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 03 July 2015 - 07:17 PM

I agree. I am looking forward to this car class.


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#38 MG Brown

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Posted 15 July 2015 - 03:53 PM

Small note: I just purchased a(nother) JK Dallara DW12 RTR and unlike the others that I had previously purchased, this one has some minor issues. I am sure that these are non-typical of these cars...and may have even been damaged in shipment, so I hesitate to say what the specific problem is.

 

The problems are nothing that close inspection, adjusting and blueprinting won't cure... but be mindful that these are for all intents and purposes mass produced toys and a little proactive TLC before putting them on the track will likely pay dividends.

 

Just saying.... K? Have fun MySeries racers!


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#39 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 28 July 2015 - 07:07 PM

My black verizon rtr directly from JK at a mere $93.00 performs quite differently from Marcus' built up chassis with his purple painted body.  If you guys think one off the shelf and you're competitive, think again. I'm the new guy...Looks like time to build one up and paint it bright green.  Best sourcing parts available - always, says Cheater - koford axle, parma cut down guide, koford phos/bronze guide spacers, big mama braids, casey's lead wire, one fast H7, cahoza spur, arp angled pinion, fresh cut jk tires - PULLEEEEEZ!  KISS this...plus 5 more things at least. (if anyone knows better quality parts for this car in this rule set - let me know!)

 

I've looked at 3 different JK rtr out of the box - each body is cut differently, especially under the front and around the front axle and each rear quarter panel (all 6) are different, and the rear cutout beneath the spoilers are all different.  The stock wires are not long enough to re-route into a loop.  This is a mass produced toy.  We are slot racers.  Notice for all the armatures - bring it!


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#40 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 11:33 AM

I have made only two changes to my RTR car. I have reinforced the body and I re-routed the lead wire. The car runs very good. BTW: Casey's lead wire is illegal.


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#41 PCH Parts Express

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 11:53 AM

Indy/F1 cars look great this year (and for the last couple of years). If only more tires came with yellow or white lettering or graphics on the sidewalls.  Firestone, Goodyear, or maybe a chopped up stripe of some kind would add to the look. Twinn-K really would do well in this market. Their 1/24th line of tires was incredible.   


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#42 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 07:01 PM

What lead wire will be approved as an alternate to the JK wire?  Tried to source some at our local tracks, nope.


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#43 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 01 August 2015 - 04:06 PM

Right now, only the same wire is approved. Looks like to me its the clear insulation wire. I think that Bill has this wire in stock, I have bought this lead wire from him in the past. Charlie, I had no problem in looping the stock lead wire thru the holes and back to the motor leads. You can do it.

I don't think that (due to manufacturing differences) that if you had to splice in 1/2" of some other wire that that would be a problem. Its a for fun race this year and is intended to get some of the non-MySeries racers into the series. So lets just go with the rules and see how it plays out. We will work out ant bugs this year.


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#44 Bill from NH

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Posted 01 August 2015 - 07:11 PM

Illegal leadwire? This sounds like the days when a certain Port Angeles, WA trackowner would only let his racers use Parma arm spacers in their rebuildable 16Ds. :wacko2:  At least you didn't get stuck using the Parma red & black junk. :victory:  I'm not knowing what the Florida clear insulation wire is, but TQ once sold clear insulation leadwire. I also recall Champion using clear insulation speaker wire on some of their RTRs.


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#45 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 09:05 AM

The lead wire that is acceptable is the same lead wire that comes as RTR. With JK production, the RTR production lead wire may change. We don't know that but the rules will maintain stability by allowing any lead wire that has come as RTR. Same thing with the gear ratio. RTR now is 10T on a 37T. If JK changes to an 11 on a 37, we will have the option to change to the newer gear ratio (if you want to).


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#46 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 07:26 AM

I've yet to see a car not pass tech in MySeries in 5 events this year.  I have seen cars get a one time reprieve...Now I got to source some clear insulation lamp cord - can you say Skycraft?  I can't wait to see everyone changing wires before the race - I'll bring some extra lamp cord.  :crazy:  We can't even run tinned wire :pardon:  


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#47 Wizard Of Iz

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 07:37 PM

Are you saying that I can ONLY run JK-brand clear leadwire?  No clear TQ lead wire? 

 

Lead wire might get tricky.  Because ..... I'm not sure JK-brand leadwire is available as an aftermarket part.  I don't think it is, but I could be wrong.  I certainly have been wrong before.


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#48 Marcus P1 Raceway

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 08:38 PM

If there is a minimun weight, what difference does it make which lead wire that you use?


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#49 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 09:27 PM

Minimum weight is 101 grams. I don't understand this thing about the lead wire; just run the lead wire that came as RTR. Tell me what is behind the need to change out the lead wire?


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#50 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 04 August 2015 - 06:02 AM

My black verizon rtr weighs 102.6 grams. When did minimum weight come in?  That's for enduro cars, right?  Rules on the fly?


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