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Just a Retro question


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#1 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 06:43 PM

Let me ramble in my thoughts for a minute if you will.

 

It seems to me Retro racing is super popular in a few places and non-existent in many places.

 

Retro cars are cool.

They look like cars.

They have wheels (4) that roll.

They are quick enough and fun to drive.

The chassis and bodies relate back to the cars many of us remember from the 60s.

 

Retro is a class for old school builders, or is it.

A lot of people are racing chassis built by other people.

They can buy a competitive chassis without the time and effort developing and building.

That’s fine, fun for all, and a buck or two for some builders.

Retro cars are not expensive if you build the chassis.

If you buy the chassis they are not so cheap.

If you build the chassis they are not that easy.

 

People have told me they don’t do Retro because it is too expensive in time or money.

 

So bottom line is this question

Is there a place in Retro racing for a mass produced chassis that fits the existing configuration?

It could still be inline.

It could be stamped steel or plastic (anything come to mind) or brass if it meets the rules.

It could be an additional recognized class or just an allowed chassis type in the classes.

It could be a new class with more modern scale bodies?

It could be an alternative for people racing currently popular less scale stuff.

 

 

Just rambling. 


Eddie Fleming




#2 slotbaker

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 06:58 PM

The main attraction for me was the scratch building of similar chassis styles of the 60's.

 

I wouldn't think that Retro is expensive if you build and prepair your own cars.

It would be expensive if you bought RTR cars from an established builder.

Check book racing is not what it is all about.

 

There might be room for another class of car, and I wouldn't think a mass produced stamped/moulded chassis would be in keeping with the spirit of Retro and the original intent.

 

Just my 2 bob's worth.


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#3 Mark Wampler

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 07:17 PM

The term Retro can be confusing.  Retro in slot cars have to do with what was most popular back in the mid to late 60's of Pro racing.  Ready to run Kit cars by manufacterers such as Cox, Classic, Russkit  were not part of the Pro scene.  So yes, it is a scratchbuilders class.  Early scratchbuilding  were inline motor configuration only until mid / late 1968.  Retro slot cars of the day mirrored actual CanAm and Formula one race cars.  Thingies were not part of the Pro race scene of the time.  Wing cars  / air contolled bodies were not part of the 60's.

 

There are a number of retro chasiss kits that can be assembled with some basic soldering skills.  It depends on your interest in assembly and fabrication.  There are a number of seasoned builders who can build to order.   Far as I know there are no mass produced chassis because there is always the drive to produce a better mouse trap.  I believe there used to be a JK spec class, but I don't know if its still active or not.

 

Many times you can score on used setups for a good price.  That would be a better way to get into retro on the cheap. Put out a request to buy a used chassis or complete roller car. 

 

=M=


You can quote me.

-Mark

#4 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 07:24 PM

I don't need to buy a chassis. I can build.


Eddie Fleming

#5 Duffy

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 07:42 PM

Actually the chassis (plural) isn't the greatest expenditure. You spend as much or more dressing it out. And then there's your controller. Slot box. pliers Allen keys snips clips fluids worklamp Hudy powerpak...oh yah, a soldeing iron and Dremel in case you need to repair something, and then it's just a skip & jump and a jig to building your own chassis, and you're saving that money and investing it elsewhere.

 

Listen, it's an expensive hobby if you don't want to commit the money to it, just like anything in life costs too much when you don't like the cost; but we also know people who will toss remarkably large sums without a second thought at tobacco, booze, dining out, your choice of entertainment, whatever. It's a choice. The money wouldn't be the reason for not participating, if you want to participate.


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#6 MSwiss

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 07:43 PM

Eddie,
I don't think what you describe will bring more people into the raceway.

Just shuffle around the existing product among the limited amount of people who want to slot race.
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#7 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 07:54 PM

Thanks Mike 


Eddie Fleming

#8 MSwiss

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 08:16 PM

Eddie,
I was busy, here at the raceway, but what I meant to add is most of my customers don't care what the body looks like.

When you explain which one handles better, they will take that.

Mike Swiss
 
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#9 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 08:41 PM

Thanks again Mike.

 

Thinking about your first post you are very close to what I had in mind even if I had not put it into words.

 

I was a slot racer in the 60s so the retro cars are an attraction to me. I hate the look of the GTP and lexan stock cars, but I race them. The problem is we have little to no retro in Atlanta, and I would love to find a way to move people to racing something that looks more like  a car than a door stop. even a door stop without the molded in wings is much better than the current GTP crap.

 

the 3D printed chassis is very interesting because it lets people race without building from scratch. yet it in many ways is much like a retro car, and could / should be used with more scale bodies.


Eddie Fleming

#10 John Streisguth

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 08:56 PM

How about 4-1/2" FCR chassis with Retro stock car bodies?  It was a class in the first year of the National FCR series, we ran them at my local track before it shut down, and I know Port Jeff (wing car central...) runs them as well and the guys have a blast with them.

 

JK has some old-style stock car bodies that fit onto 4-1/2 flexi type chassis if that what you would prefer.

 

And JK also has Camaro, Mustang, and Javelin (AMX?) bodies that fit on 4" flexi chassis, so there are some options.


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#11 Half Fast

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 09:13 PM

The 4-1/2" FCR chassis with Retro stock car bodies and retro hawk motors are a blast. They are cheap, easy to maintain  and fast or faster than retro stock cars because of the wider track width.

 

Cheers


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#12 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 09:14 PM

Building or finding cars that I like is no problem. Getting more people in my area to race them is what I am getting at i guess.


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#13 Tex

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 11:25 PM

If you want a mass-produced chassis for "retro" racing, put a Can-Am body on a flexi chassis and be done with it. It'll look retro but that's all. If you want retro, the chassis needs to be scratchbuilt... just my opinion.


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#14 NSwanberg

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 02:02 AM

Listen, it's an expensive hobby if you don't want to commit the money to it, just like anything in life costs too much when you don't like the cost; but we also know people who will toss remarkably large sums without a second thought at tobacco, booze, dining out, your choice of entertainment, whatever. It's a choice. The money wouldn't be the reason for not participating, if you want to participate.

Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?


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#15 John Streisguth

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 07:10 AM

Building or finding cars that I like is no problem. Getting more people in my area to race them is what I am getting at i guess.

Well, that's aways the problem.  Just suggesting something usualy is fruitless, you probably have to build one and get it on the track and let people see it and try it. 


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#16 Pappy

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 07:23 AM

Actually, to get something going you have to build 5 of them and lend them out so people can see they're fun to race. When I started the Ohio Valley Retro Series there were times when 5 of the 8 cars in the race were my cars. 


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#17 Matt Sheldon

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 07:27 AM

When I look through the race reports, regardless of region, the "checkbook" racers are 90%+ of the field. Before we get too condescending let's be careful as to how some perceive what retro should be. Without the checkbook racers, there would be no retro racing as we know it today! 

 

What some are describing to be a hindrance, is actually a benefit for me. While I am sure that with enough time and effort spent I could come up with a competitive chassis, the fact that I have a choice and the options to purchase a chassis is what helps the appeal of retro for me. So while yes it may be a little tougher in some areas to get a mass retro program going, the real truth is that it is easy for that new racer to get started because technically they can purchase everything they need to get started and then if they choose, progress into assembling and then scratch building their own chassis. Most the time the hardcore scratch builder and racer winner are not the same person. 


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#18 Pappy

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 07:30 AM

 I would love to find a way to move people to racing something that looks more like  a car than a door stop.

That's one of the reason's I now race 1/32 scale plastic cars, they look like real cars. 

 

I've thought about taking a Carrera 1/24th scale body and building a retro chassis for it just to see how well it runs. I think it would be a great class but then again trying to get people on board so you could have a race would be a nightmare. And I don't have the money to build 5 of them.


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#19 Pablo

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 08:36 AM

IRRA already tried that - it was call Flexi GT, designed to attract newbies into retro.

It was discontinued because the same experts as always were winning the races.

Correct me if I'm wrong. 


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#20 Bill from NH

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 09:15 AM

Pappy, did you give up your Classic Retro Rules class? You ought to build yourself the Carrera car you mention above & see how it runs on your own track. If you did, it might give you the opportunity to apply some of the Classic rules. You never can tell, but it might catch on.


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#21 Hworth08

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 09:18 AM

Buying frames built by the "pros" was popular in the '60s. The period magazines had monthly ads from some of the top racers. There are people that just don't care a hoot about building a frame but enjoy racing.

 

Buying built frames carried over even to Flexi racing though the frames are referred to as blue printed.

 

80 to a 100 dollars for a frame that usually has soon record of performance and requires an hour or two for assembly isn't expensive.


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#22 Pappy

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 10:08 AM

Pappy, did you give up your Classic Retro Rules class? You ought to build yourself the Carrera car you mention above & see how it runs on your own track. If you did, it might give you the opportunity to apply some of the Classic rules. You never can tell, but it might catch on.

Bill,

 

I did Classic Retro because of the crap that was going on in the IRRA at the time. There's not enough people in the area that are interested in Retro in general to get a new series going, especially now that things have calmed down in the IRRA. But now that you mention it, it might be a class we could do locally since I do know a lot of guys who race the Carrera digital cars and have the bodies. 

 

As I have mentioned before, there are a number of reason's I quit racing IRRA Retro. The traveling, the cost, some of the people, a lot of the cars were just plain crappy looking, just to mention a few. When I first started the Ohio Valley Series you could go to the race, spend an hour or so working on your car, buy a $15 Falcon 7, be competitive and maybe even win the race. Now to win you have to have multiple motors, bodies and tires . Test, Test, Test for hours. Not worth it to me. I'd much rather just go to someone's house where you don't have to pay for track time or a race fee, drink a few beers, maybe lend out a car or borrow one and have a great time. But that's just me, all part of getting old I guess.


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#23 Pablo

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 10:16 AM

Didn't I actually build Pappy a car using those rules? The green F1 that now sits on a shelf? :dash2:  :laugh2:


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#24 anumber1

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 11:04 AM

Bill,
 
I did Classic Retro because of the crap that was going on in the IRRA at the time. There's not enough people in the area that are interested in Retro in general to get a new series going, especially now that things have calmed down in the IRRA. But now that you mention it, it might be a class we could do locally since I do know a lot of guys who race the Carrera digital cars and have the bodies. 
 
As I have mentioned before, there are a number of reason's I quit racing IRRA Retro. The traveling, the cost, some of the people, a lot of the cars were just plain crappy looking, just to mention a few. When I first started the Ohio Valley Series you could go to the race, spend an hour or so working on your car, buy a $15 Falcon 7, be competitive and maybe even win the race. Now to win you have to have multiple motors, bodies and tires . Test, Test, Test for hours. Not worth it to me. I'd much rather just go to someone's house where you don't have to pay for track time or a race fee, drink a few beers, maybe lend out a car or borrow one and have a great time. But that's just me, all part of getting old I guess.

Butting in here but...

I am pretty new in the hobby but have already witnessed a series I was participating in go from inexpensive chassis and motors to checkbook racing with expensive motors shipped in and the winning cars all built by someone other than the driver.

Defenately takes the fun out of it, knowing I am not going to be competitive unle$$ I bring the same money to the table.

I now get the point of sealed motor racing. I also understand and like the thought of retro racing but don't have the time or money get competitive in it.

Seems this hobby is its own worst enemy when it comes to discuraging a new guy.

Too much ego in everything
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#25 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 11:50 AM

I now get the point of sealed motor racing. I also understand and like the thought of retro racing but don't have the time or money get competitive in it.

 

That is the reason I was asking about production chassis. Alan is not alone.

 

On the other hand Flexi racing takes care of that and everything is well and good in our hobby sport.


Eddie Fleming





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