19 replies to this topic

[Lone Wolf]

I need to raise some quick cash and a lot of stuff needs to go unfortunately.

 

I want to sell these as a buy it now. My knowledge is limited on these. Chassis marked NCC-20-70. RVM fronts on the white one? Both motors run strong.

 

Thanks.

 

 

[Jairus]

Those are your basic Gp12 class cars.  It was a beginner class and the chassis are Champion as it says on the bottom. Motors are Mura "A".

They seem unmolested since the last race in the early 70's so... I would have to say maybe $50 to $100 each?  But at auction, it's up totally up in the air.
You could get more, or you could get $20 as there is not much demand.
But then I rarely see them this complete.

Hope someone else chimes in Joe.

 

Edit, now that I am looking at them... I like the Porsche 917 because of the front wheels. I think they are RVM.
 

[Lone Wolf]

Thanks for the info J, I was hoping they would be worth somewhere around $100 each. I could not find any past sales on similar cars.
 
I put them on eBay now with the controller I found with them.

[raisin27]

I believe those are Champion GP 20 chassis. They were designed so that the gear could go on either side allowing clockwise or counterclockwise motors. They didn't handle that well, but the idea was that everyone would use the same chassis for this GP 20 class.

The class never really took off (at least not in the southeast Michigan area where I raced).

[Bill from NH]

I don't know what their intended initial use was, but my first exposure to this chassis was a 1969 or '70 NCC-20 race. This may have been the first stamped steel slot car chassis. The Mura-provided Grp. 20 arms were the first tagged arms sold for slot cars. As Raisin said, the handling of these cars was always suspect.

I still have my chassis and motor to someday restore this race car.

[Gator Bob]

Of course these did not come with Mura power as a RTR.

 

Joe, are the arms 'tagged'?

 

When I 'found' slots again in 1974 this model chassis with a Champion Gr-15 motor (D can, blue endbell, unbalanced)  was my 'new' (used) ride.

 

Compared to what I had up until 1967 I found it to be a 'Great' handling car... until I put a fresh 24 wire arm in it... LOL.

[Bill from NH]

I don't think the NCC started with RTR cars of any type. I bought a Parma kit which had the Champion chassis, Champion blind axle hole fronts and rears, Mura A can and magnets, Mura Grp. 20 arm, and I believe a Du-Bro Ferrari body. I think the spur gear was a Cox, but I'm not 100% sure.

 

Champion made all the chassis, Mura made all the arms. Neither company sold an NCC car or kit that was all their own parts. Other companies, such as Parma, sold kits of various brands of parts..                                       

[Gator Bob]

I thought the concept of NCC was the "Group" was based on the maximum price of an RTR.

 

$20.00 for a Gr-20 RTR 

$15.00 for a Gr-15 RTR

 

Etc...

[Lone Wolf]

Bob, both arms are tagged "NCC 20" with a paper sticker. 

[Gator Bob]

Nice!

 

For the next guy... With a 'refresh' and some modern rears they would be a fast and fun collectable.

 

I have two to ready to build up with the black/orange Champion Gr-20 motors.

The 'plumberized' GR-22 version is a 'prized' NoC NoS collectable (or useable) piece. 

 

Side note: Chassis that were sold separately came with a 16 and 26 size motor bracket. The 26 bracket was legal for Group 12 use.

[TSR]

The story is that the "Group 20" chassis, made in Japan for Champion, was also used to make kits and RTR (yes, RTR) models by not only Champion but also Mura, Tradeship, Riggen, and Dynamic. Champion used their own "black can" motors (the last of their 517 to 545 series) with Arco White Dots mags and that ugly endbell with the brass plate to hold the bearing, and that was not a good set-up. What was, was the Mura C-can, born in 1970 and that quickly fount its way into the winning cars.

While the Champion RTR are the most commonly found, the genuine others are truly rare in their original box.

Here is your proof that Champion indeed, produced RTR models of theit Group 20 car:


 

 

 


As far as value, used cars of this type bring little, maybe 50 bucks, while mint, boxed cars can easily sell for 10 times more. Condition is everything, and in this respect, slot cars have now joined other collectibles, in which rarity is far less important than condition. This is why you sometimes see very rare items but in poor condition, languishing forever at online auctions, with the original outrageous price demand going south as weeks pass, with less and less interest from potential buyers.

My best advice for these cars: don't put a "Buy it now", because at $100.00, you may not find interest. Sell them at auction, beginning at $1, and you will be surprised to see that you might get more than you expected. It only take two guys who think they can beat the other.

[Bill from NH]

When were these Champion "black" can NCC 20 motors available? I'm thinking it was after 1969-70 because what REHCo shipped Modelville in that timeframe had Mura arms. I bought a Champion NCC-20 arm with the orange hysol, but that later, like '71-73. I was running mostly Camen Grp. 20 arms by that time.

[Bob Rule]

The Group 20 Class was created to have equal competition for everyone. Champion made the chassis and sold them to everyone. They also made their own Group 20 motor as did Mura. The class did have a max price.

 

I still have the original prototype kit. Maybe I'll dig it out and post a picture this afternoon. I questioned Rick Jordan about the motor just to be sure my memory was correct. Here is his reply:

 

"I know we made some GP 20, 15, etc., arms and motors for a while. I remember working on the tagging process and processing arms with tags."

 

The class was very competitive because everyone had the same equipment.    

 

Everyone have a nice weekend.

[Tom Thumb Hobbies]

Can't get a more definitive answer than that. Thanks, Bob.

[Lone Wolf]

Thanks for all the info. Good to see Bob and PdL back in the mix. 

 

OK, PdL, I followed your advice and started them at a buck.

 

If they don't go for what I want I'm coming over to your house to punch you in the nose.  

[Cheater]

Joe,

 

He didn't say make it a no reserve listing, you know...

[Gator Bob]

Thank you, Bob Rule!

 

Tell Rick 'his' 120k RPM tach is safe and those old Champion Group 20 'tagged' arms were great.

 

Those NCC-20 style chassis turned out to be kind of a 'missing link' between brass scratchbuilt and the full stamped steel designs that followed. 

 

Thanks for all you did for our hobby. 

 

Now where is my darn Duncan Imperial... it's purple.     

[Lone Wolf]

Got that covered, Greg. 

 

Of course, you know I'm just breaking PdL's cojones.  

 

I hear he can dish it out as well as take it.  

[mcrracer]

What is the eBay link?

[Lone Wolf]

Here are the links to the two cars:
 
Vintage NCC-20-70 Group 20? Car as found from the '70s

 

Vintage NCC-20-70 Group 20? Car as found from the '70s RVM Fronts?

 

And the rest of the stuff Joe has listed on eBay right now can be found HERE.