42 replies to this topic

[jmkunka]

Hi,
 
I would like to produce, in limited numbers, a Cox mag frame Chaparral 2E reproduction box, for sale or trade.

Since the boxes are rare, my problem is finding a sample in relatively good condition. What I'm looking for are high-resolution scans of each panel for reproduction. My intention is to offer these strictly as a compliment for display, to a collector who owns an original 2E. 

Since I've given up acquiring an original for my collection, I'd be satisfied with a high quality repro for myself. I'm not even sure if there is a market for this beyond my own desire. I'm not looking to make any money on this venture, only to cover my cost of supplies and time, since they will be printed on a high quality printer and hand-cut and assembled, by me. I work professionally as a graphic artist and if this works out I may consider some other collectible boxes.

If anyone is interested, please contact me.

Thank you,

[TSR]

Joe,

 

Good luck! Someone ought to be able to help. At this time the LASCM is in such a mess due to construction, it would be unthinkable to even attempt to make a scan...

Also the brownish color will not reproduce well on even a sophisticated color printer, it is a weird shade, not an easy one to match.



Picture courtesy www.lascm.com.

[MattD]

Having an original un-built 2E kit back in the '80s, I decided to make a few repro boxes in the '90s, before I sold the kit. I had white chipboard boxes made to the specs of the Cox mag frame kits. At that time there were two choices on making the covers, a commercial printer or small mom and pop print shops. No commercial print shop I talked to to was much interested in such a small project. The other option was to make the covers in two pieces, which is what I did. This only involved a local mom and pop printing shop.

If you want a box for yourself, just check eBay, as an old friend is selling boxes for mag 2Es now. He is copying his boxes from one of my repros. How do I know??? I put a mark on my first box cover so I could identify any made from one of my copies. His boxes have my mark and I think I probably sent him a box back in the '90s. It would be interesting to see if anybody can see where I put an extra mark on my repro boxes..

[jmkunka]

Hi Philippe & Matt,

Thanks for the reply. I'm aware of the difficulty in trying to match that yellow, greenish, brown color. Without having an original box to compare against the printed scan, I'd only be guessing about the color, no matter how much color correcting I do. Honestly for a reproduction, not trying to pass off as an original, it is what it is. I have access to a large format printer and color proofer so there is no issue of printing in one piece. I believe that the image has a screen in it, or dot pattern, and a scan or sharp photo would capture that.

Not sure what reproductions you're talking about Matt, but I have seen a recent reproduction on eBay that I wouldn't even consider as a starting point, much less pay money for. I've been a graphic artist for over 30 years, have worked in three professional print shops and I'm currently employed in a New York advertising agency, so I'm confident that I can produce a much higher quality product than a mom & pop establishment. I also worked in a mom & pop shop. Like I said, I'm not trying to make any money on this, at least with anyone willing to offer assistance. I'm even willing to travel a reasonable distance to photograph the box if an offer arises.

I mentioned this idea to a guy two years ago who has a nice original box. All he could think of is how we could pawn it off as an original! I said no thanks. Just thought I'd see if anyone is interested, I'm not in a rush. I do have a complete set of images of each panel from eBay, not ideal, but I'll be able to produce at least one box for myself if nothing comes up.The whole point is to avoid as much retouching as possible.

I've attached a sample from eBay, while far from perfect, I can work with it. I hope to get a better sample.

Joe

 

 

[markus]

Hey Joe!

Nice project, I am a designer myself and recreated the first Chaparral kit box just for kicks. These things are a perfect match for Adobe Illustrator! Much easier than scanning and adequately de-screaning that raster …

 

What I did on the colours was take the hi-res scan, correct until the whites were white again, blurr the hell out of it, and then use the eydropper to pick the individual colours at their "purest" occurances. That should get you in the ballpark but that green-beige or whatever that is will be a booger, even with an original box. Looks like they printed these at 54 lines on 150 gram coated paper …

 

Good luck and have fun! I'd offer to help but I have a lot on my plate at the moment. Let me know if you want to print these too and I can send you the InDeign files etc.

 

Cheers!
Markus

 

 

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[MattD]

I think the color of the box is actually kind of a gold. If you want a box that can be passed off as original, none of the copies I have made or have seen would do. Most of the guys I sold boxes to only wanted a box for display and some only wanted the artwork. That said, the copies would probably fool anybody that had never seen an original Cox box.

[zipper]

A little tweaking with the LASCM pic:

[markus]

The scans would just be a starting point, the artwork would need to be 100% recreated based on them and then offset printed at the correct line and angle, on the right paper, etc .... This is what I believe Joe is wanting to do, as I did (or started) with the black Chaparral box I show above. This type of artwork is perfect for vector recreation, but the sidewinder chassis took my a day alone and all the type is also hand-drawn as no modern font (Trade Gothic, Frutiger, etc.) matches their 60's counterparts exactly. Then comes the question: computer perfection or with the original hand-drawn tiny mistakes? I chose the latter.

 

Also, the only way to get a reasonable result is to have an original box in your hands so if anyone has one they could "lend" or sell him, that would be helpful. The end result from doing it this way would be not a copy, but a 100% recreation that is indescernable from the original.

 

I'd love to do this with the Gurney box too, which would be doable right up to the photo. Removing the print-raster from a offset-printed photograph is really hard, hard work without blurring it all.

[jmkunka]

Hi Markus, Matt & Pekka,

 

Thanks for your replies and input. It's greatly appreciated! I actually gave up on this project after the post went dead. I moved on to other projects. I have a Cox I.F.C. box in good shape which I scanned, and the initial results look promising. I thought I'd create this box first, post some pictures and see if it spikes any interest.

As far as the mag frame 2E goes, creating it in Illustrator is the way to go, except, for my needs, the effort out ways the result. I'm only looking to create a compliment for displaying my original 2E's, which I'd rather invest the effort restoring.

Pekka, your tweaking of the box art is actually the direction I'm talking about. With a good quality scan, some cleaning up of each panel, assembling in photoshop, print, then mount on a blank box. Done.

Markus, your artwork is awesome! Did you do all the panels or just the cover? I'd love to create this box also! By the way, if you haven't guessed, Chaparrals are my absolute favorite!

Thanks again,

Joe



 

[Mike Patterson]

I actually gave up on this project after the post went dead. 

 

Aw, come on, do the box! I've done some one or two off packaging designs, usually just re-branding some existing product for a more humorous effect. It's a great learning process. Do the box!

[jmkunka]

I'd really like to and like most, if not all of us, my free time is limited and valuable. I really have no intention of producing these in quantity. It would probably be on a build to order basis at best. That could change if a demand was there. Even if I had the artwork ready to print the cost in materials and my time to cut, trim, glue, fold and assemble each box by hand would make the cost in the range of $100 to $200 per box. If I had a source for pre-assembled boxes the right size, that would save in the overall production cost. Any one have a source for the exact size boxes?

The attached image is a box that sold on ebay for $35. I couldn't match that price but the quality isn't there. With good scans the quality would be a lot closer than that, and no way as time consuming as redrawing every element of each panel. If someone can offer the scans, I'll be happy to make the box.

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[MattD]

The box listed on Ebay is a copy of a copy I made 20 years ago. If you have ever seen many originals, you would find that they are not nearly as sharp and crisp as might be expected. Probably the programs you guys would use to clean up one of these boxes are superior to the commercial printing abilities of 1965, that were used for toy boxes.

[jmkunka]

Hi Matt,

 

I realize that scanning an original box will offer some challenges in reproduction, but as I stated before, it's only intended as a reproduction for display. I have no illusions of trying to sell them as original boxes. And as far as the box photo I attached, it clearly is at least 2 generations degraded from the original, a copy of a copy, etc.

I've attached some pics of my IFC box top that I scanned, the raw scan (before), the retouched scan (after), both are low resolution and a detail of the retouched version to show quality at the printing resolution. I spent 45 mins cleaning up the original scan to that point. I'd say I could finalize it in less than an hour. This is how I'd like to approach the mag frame box if a clean original should show up.

What are your thoughts?

Joe

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[jmkunka]

The detail was too large to attach. I'll try again.

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[markus]

Hi Joe,

thanks and sorry to hear you stopped for now! Bit by bit maybe we will get the whole Cox program together again!

 

I just looked and I only did the top so far (it's been a while ago) but I could do the flaps fairly quickly if you or anyone else wanted them. It's time consuming as you know, but on nights where one finds himself "stuck" in front of the TV to preserve peace in the family, a laptop and something to tinker with on it is a welcome break.

 

And 2-300 bucks per box may sound like a lot but is still a very good deal for the amount of work (software, expertise, etc) involved!

Markus
 

[jmkunka]

Hi Markus,

 

Thanks for your reply. I'm sure at some point I will do something, just not sure when.

 

From what I can tell, your box top looks better than the original. It actually falls into the category of commercial/fine art when created from scratch. Even though it is time consuming to create, once complete, as you're aware, an infinite number of samples can be produced. If the demand is there, then the effort is worth it. If no one is interested, you only have the satisfaction of knowing you did it.

What I'm getting at is, who is willing to pay a high price for a reproduction, no matter how perfect it is. I've spent years searching for complete and incomplete Cox Chaparral 2E's. The hard body mag-frame was my Holy Grail. In desperation I purchased a high quality reproduction from Classic Tin Toy Company for $250.00. In a lot of ways it is as nice as an original Cox 2E, but I was not satisfied since it was a reproduction. It actually is about 1.5% smaller than an original, but hard to tell unless compared side by side with an original. I finally acquired 2 original samples. They are not perfect, but are complete.

I guess if I new I could sell at least 20 at $75-$125 each it would be worth the effort. $200-$300 would be well worth it!

Joe



 

[MattD]

To be honest I doubt if you could sell more than 10 at $100 per. That is just my opinion.

[jmkunka]

You're probably right. That's why I believe less effort is the way to go.

[jmkunka]

Well, I finally made a repro box. I know the color is off but I have nothing to compare it to. I'm fairly satisfied with it.

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[welslotcar]

Beautiful work.

[jmkunka]

Thanks! It was a lot of work for one box, but I'm satisfied, and it will display nice with my Chaparrals. It would have been a lot less work if I had actual scans of each panel then the color would have been more accurate.

Now, if only I could reproduce the rest of the kit! 3D printer maybe? 

[jmkunka]

I got a little more motivated, made another box and took some more photos.

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[welslotcar]

Very nice collection.

[jmkunka]

Thank you. It's been a fun hunt.

[jmkunka]

Well, I'll admit, I was a little surprised I didn't get much response to my repro boxes. Never really advertised or offered to sell, but I thought someone would at least ask if they were for sale. I did appreciate what favorable feedback I did receive from a few forum members though.

The whole reason to re-create the box was to have one to display with my Cox 2E's, which by the way, seemed impossible to acquire. The Mag-frame being the most elusive. It's only natural that a box was needed for display. I was told a good original box was harder to acquire than the cars! I reached out here for help for photos with minimal help. Finally, I got some good pics from someone I bought a 2E from on Ebay and moved forward and created a high quality repro. I've posted the result.  I did have 20 high quality prints produced in case an interest developed.

I've attached my latest development, inspired by the original 2E Box. A display card, digitally designed and recreated from an original box. The ironic twist to this saga, I own the original box in these photos, thanks to the help of a friend. The collector who sent me the photos of his original Mag-frame box that allowed me to create my repros from.

 

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