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Snake Bite III


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#1 Pablo

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 04:04 PM

Finished July 2015:

post-91-0-69299100-1434904659.jpg

 

post-91-0-65038900-1435013303.jpg

 

post-91-0-04579600-1436312179.jpg

 

Here's how it all started:

Snake Bite I was created by Greg Wells, finished and assembled into a complete car by Yours Truly.

 

Snake Bite II was my attempt to improve upon Greg's two-piece design by using a one-piece with a torsion tongue.

 

Snake Bite III is a return to SB I design - a two-piece using the original R-Geo Samurai pan.

 

I drew this rough sketch on a napkin at the Mustang Ranch bar last week:

 

IMG_4638.JPG

 

Spent about three hours perfecting the pan, then mocked up the parts for a photo.

(yes, Bunky, that is a Turning Man tongue and a Chicagoland wide bracket)

 

IMG_5066.JPG


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#2 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 08:27 PM

I like the one on the napkin better.
 
Just kidding.  :D
 
It will be interesting to see what you come up with.
Eddie Fleming

#3 Pablo

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Posted 23 May 2015 - 06:26 PM

Pan plate trimmed, edges rounded, sanded, flattened, and finished.

IMG_5091.JPG
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#4 Pablo

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Posted 24 May 2015 - 06:48 PM

Chicagoland Wide bracket, almost perfect right out of the bag.

.032", .039", and .055" wires, short pieces of 1/8" brass angle in the corners, and a strip of .063" by .307" by 1.275" brass at ground zero.

That should make it strong enough to survive anything.

IMG_5156.JPG
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#5 Pablo

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 07:19 PM

1/8" brass angle pieces, .055" body clip holes for JK Indy 2" clips, and .032" wire pieces to stiffen and strengthen the pan.

IMG_5187.JPG
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#6 Pablo

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 01:17 PM

This is just a "mock-up" to see if I liked this tongue/rail interface, so it's just tacked in place.

 

My "intel source" couldn't find anything negative to say about it, so, onward we go. :)

 

The .063" brass connector between the .078" V rails and the "Turning Man" .042" steel tongue is level with, and on top of, the rails (photo is up side down).

TM is attached below the connector, making the rotating surface about .036" above ground zero. (.078" minus .042" = .036")

A cut-down style guide flag will work perfectly.

 

IMG_5212.JPG

 

Tongue face .036" above ground zero over a .032" pan gives me .004" clearance.

 

Now that I'm sure this will work, I'll "sano" it up and go forth...


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#7 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 05:46 PM

You are very close to something I have been thinking about. If the tongue is allowed enough upward movement in relation to the pan the guide will be self adjusting to the track braid depth.

 

I assume the front wheels will be mounted to the pan.

 

The question is will that put enough weight on the guide?


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#8 Pablo

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Posted 28 May 2015 - 11:32 PM

This tongue assembly will be set up very much the same as SB I - the weight of the chassis will rest on the tongue area.


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#9 Pablo

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Posted 10 June 2015 - 09:18 AM

I measured the angle needed for the tinned .078" wire "V" rails from the front of the Chicagoland Wide to the correct spot on the tongue at 12 degrees.

So I made my bends - they only need to be approximate right now.  I left extra wire to go slightly past the rear of the bracket faces. I'll cut those off later.

 

IMG_5306.JPG

 

IMG_5319.JPG

 

I want to make the rails end in a sharp "V" in front, so I'll grind flat spots on them.  

Now you know why I wanted to make the bends first - when the wires lay on the sander, the flat spots will be 90 degrees to the bends.

Since I couldn't get the angle tool in there close enough, I simply marked the angle where I needed it with a Sharpie:

 

IMG_5309.JPG

 

"Turning Man" steel tongue tacked to a Slick 7 .032 steel tongue:

 

IMG_5315.JPG

 

Pan assembly in perfect position. Note the Sharpie mark that indicates the forward extreme of the pan rail notch - I won't be able to see it once the tongue is placed over it:

 

IMG_5316.JPG

 

Tongue assembly placed upside down and taped flat to the pan. If it was correct side up, I couldn't see the TM when I mark where to cut the rails.

 

Note the TM has a built in 2 degree tilt so I purposely didn't use the knurled R-Geo nut to hold it down - if I did, it wouldn't lay flat on the pan, and my measurement would be off a little.  :shok:

 

IMG_5318.JPG


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#10 Gator Bob

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Posted 10 June 2015 - 09:39 AM

After tacking using flux... there might be corrosion between those two steel parts that will impede proper flow later. 

 

Jus' sayin'...


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                            Bob Israelite

#11 Bill from NH

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Posted 10 June 2015 - 09:57 AM

To get the face of your crossfeed angle tool closer to the sanding disk, screw or use double-sided tape to attach a wooden fence to the face.


Bill Fernald
 

My wife says I don't pay enough attention to her, or something like that.  :unknw:


#12 Pablo

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Posted 10 June 2015 - 10:04 AM

Good idea, Bill. :)  But I made out OK eyeballing it:

 

IMG_5340.JPG

 

I made the tip of the "V" end well enough short of the pan to preclude it from hindering movement:

 

IMG_5331.JPG

 

Bob, are you rushing me? Won't work.  :laugh2:


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#13 Bill from NH

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Posted 10 June 2015 - 11:30 AM

If tacked joints are washed in a baking soda and water solution, then dried, you won't have to worry about corrosion forming.

 

Of course you could pre-tin the parts, too.   :)


Bill Fernald
 

My wife says I don't pay enough attention to her, or something like that.  :unknw:


#14 Pablo

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Posted 10 June 2015 - 11:46 AM

As luck would have it, the very tips of the rails end at the rearmost point of the TM forks, so I marked it and got the tongue out of the way:

 

IMG_5344.JPG

 

Time to make the rail bends perfectly aligned with the bracket sides:

 

IMG_5346.JPG

 

Rails tacked together at the tip:

 

IMG_5350.JPG

 

Flopped it over to avoid the tacked solder bump, and checked for absolute flatness:

 

IMG_5351.JPG

 

The easiest way I found to tack the rails to the tongue with everything in position was to do it upside down, and elevate the rails .063" to compensate for the .032" pan and .032" Slick 7 tongue. The fact that a piece of 3/16" OD tubing fit the Slick 7 hole, centered it in the jig, and was in a perfect spot for the rails to butt up against, was pure dumb luck.   :dance3:

 

IMG_5362.JPG

 

Flopped it right side up and tacked rails to bracket:

 

IMG_5378.JPG

 

Center section is flat and perfectly aligned. Now it's a simple matter of finalizing the solder joints. At least, it should be simple, if I don't botch it.  :dash2: :laugh2:

 

IMG_5383.JPG


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#15 dc-65x

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Posted 10 June 2015 - 11:48 AM

I love the motor bracket with the "Pablo" plaque; it looks like jewelry!


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Check out Steve Okeefe's great web site at its new home here at Slotblog:
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There's much more to come...


#16 Pablo

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Posted 11 June 2015 - 02:50 AM

Thanks, Rick.  :D  The trophy shop computer engraving machine has much better handwriting than I do.  :laugh2:

 

Lots of alligator clips, Stay-Clean® flux, a little minitorch heat, and the tongue assembly is complete.

 

IMG_5393.JPG

 

IMG_5408.JPG

 

Time to finish the rail to bracket solder joints, and install strength / redundancy bracing...


Paul Wolcott

#17 Danny Zona

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Posted 11 June 2015 - 10:20 AM

I love watching Pablo's builds.
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Test, test, test and go test some more.
You're never fast enough!!! 💯

Can I please have 10 more minutes of practice? I know I've had all day but I need more...😉

#18 Pablo

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Posted 11 June 2015 - 12:19 PM

Thanks, Danny. Last night at Greg Gilberts place I told him about SB I, II, and III. 

He showed me a chassis he built a few years ago with a torsion tongue and dual rail sets just like SB II. :yes3:

 

Rail to bracket joints finalized, excess trimmed and tinned. I sanded the excess solder off because I need a clean nest for redundancy wires:

 

IMG_5423.JPG


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#19 Bill from NH

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Posted 11 June 2015 - 01:00 PM

"Real scratchbuilders don't sand their solder joints." -  the Vitter   :laugh2:  :laugh2:  :laugh2:


Bill Fernald
 

My wife says I don't pay enough attention to her, or something like that.  :unknw:


#20 Pablo

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Posted 11 June 2015 - 01:42 PM

:laugh2:  "He can't be a man 'cause he doesn't smoke the same cigarettes as me" – Mick Jagger.  :laugh2:

 

12 degree .063" pyramid as a tongue strengthener and adds low weight in (hopefully) the right place:

 

IMG_5425.JPG

 

IMG_5432.JPG


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#21 Pablo

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Posted 11 June 2015 - 05:15 PM

"Trust, but verify." :)

 

IMG_5447.JPG

 

I was 100% sure the angle on Duffy's masterpiece would be perfect. But I checked it anyway for your viewing pleasure. Absolutely perfect, a slight upward tilt. :good:


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#22 Pablo

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Posted 12 June 2015 - 08:54 AM

I has been brought to my attention that this chassis wouldn't be IRRA® legal due to the steel tongue connector piece.

 

So there will be a slight intermission while I:

 

1) Get my head screwed on straight.  :dash2:

2) Change to a brass connector.  :D

 

Onward!  :to_become_senile:


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#23 Pablo

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Posted 12 June 2015 - 07:20 PM

Modified R-Geo brass tongue connector meets Mr. Turning Man tongue.

  :)

IMG_5466.JPG

 

IMG_5478.JPG

 

Bracket bracing is done:

 

IMG_5491.JPG


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#24 SlotStox#53

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Posted 12 June 2015 - 07:48 PM

Nice.  :good: if it isn't the period korrect police it's the Retro police.  :laugh2:

Cool build, Pabl !



#25 Pablo

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Posted 13 June 2015 - 01:10 PM

Thanks, Paul. Dennis Samson caught my error, and I owe him a big favor for not waiting until I finished it before telling me.  :laugh2:

I'm not sure what size this square tubing is, but it's .155" tall. About a 1-3/8" long piece of it will be notched and soldered to the top of the pan to control movement, and to reinforce the pan in the "V" rails cut-out area.

 

IMG_5496.JPG

I calculated my cut at .047" down from the top of the tube for about 12 thou up/down and .500" wide for 10 thou wiggle per side.
Basically the same as SB I, 15 thou up/down, 20 thou left/right.

 

Heck, Bunky, stop fiddling with that slide rule and just cut a notch in it, OK? :laugh2:

 

Bunky.jpg
 


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#26 Pablo

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Posted 13 June 2015 - 04:52 PM

I settled for a bigger notch than planned, but it will all come out in the laundry.

 

It's roughly tacked in place with gobs of solder. Most of it will get sucked underneath the bottom of the tube. Whatever remains will be "Soder-Wick"ed away. For now, it's precisely where I want it:

 

IMG_5513.JPG


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#27 Pablo

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Posted 18 June 2015 - 12:55 PM

Snake tongue/Snake pan management: making the notch in the tube a little too big allowed me to control the pan movements more precisely.

 

The rearmost corners of the TM tongue were a natural to serve as the front fore/aft stop.

Rear fore/aft stop is a piece of brass angle on top of the connector, reinforced with twin .032" rods.

This piece is what pushes the pan and body down the track, so I figured it needs to be fail proof  :aggressive:

 

Up stop (or down stop, depending on your point of reference :ph34r:) is a piece of .032" rod in front of the tube, which also strengthens the tube above its notch.

Left/right stops are twin pieces of brass angle butted against the tube in the rear, which also assist the tube in strengthening the pan rail cut-out area :hi:

 

The photo may not be pretty, but every piece here has at least one important job:

 

IMG_5555.JPG


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#28 Pablo

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Posted 18 June 2015 - 04:08 PM

I'm going to acid bath and minitorch the top of the connector in an attempt to clean it up.

 

If I melt things I don't intend to, and if they move, I may have to emigrate to another country in shame.

 

If it works well, it will look pretty sano. And you may learn something - like, what NOT to do if I botch it  :laugh2:

 

IMG_5601.JPG


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#29 Gator Bob

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Posted 18 June 2015 - 04:25 PM

Pablo,

 

I can't tell from pictures 'what the hell is goin on' there. :dash2:

 

It's best to hold 'em in hand to feel that movement... you didn't say what species... is this one venomous?     :shok:

 

You best tell the marshals.  :o  


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                            Bob Israelite

#30 Pablo

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Posted 18 June 2015 - 04:41 PM

Bunky, get the halon bottle ready.  Don't try this at home, kids. :)

 

I placed the chassis on a hard block and suspended it over a wood block. That way, nothing sucks the heat away from my intended work.

 

IMG_5584.JPG


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#31 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 18 June 2015 - 05:06 PM

So you are going to make Bunky do it so you can blame it on him if it goes wrong?


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#32 Pablo

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Posted 18 June 2015 - 05:17 PM

I can't tell from pictures 'what the hell is goin on' there.


You aren't the only one who has that problem sometimes, Bob. (I sent you more pictures.)
 

It's best to hold 'em in hand to feel that movement


Couldn't have said it any better myself. :)  Until you hold it in your hand, place it on a flat block, take calipers to it, who knows?
 

You didn't say what species... is this one venomous?


Yes!
 

You best tell the marshals.


Bob, the only thing the turn marshals need to know is Snake Bite cars are easy to pick up and put down. The outer edges of the pans have brass "L" angles built in to support the body skirts. The flags are blueprinted and have a soft self-centering action.


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#33 Pablo

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Posted 18 June 2015 - 05:36 PM

Eddie,

 

I don't let Bunky within 200 yards of my hobby room.  :laugh2:


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#34 Pablo

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Posted 19 June 2015 - 08:35 AM

Much better.  :)

 

IMG_5612.JPG


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#35 Pablo

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Posted 19 June 2015 - 05:35 PM

Pan management assembly is further strengthened by a "Z" front axle brace cornered between it and the pan.

 

Yes, I know the soldering work looks sloppy, but I'll clean it all up later. :D

 

My brother-in-law looked at the forward ends of the "factory" cut nosepiece area pan notches and said, "Somethin' ain't straight".

 

No, Bunky, the notch lengths are different.  :sarcastic_hand:   Go back to your trailer and leave me alone.   :laugh2:

 

IMG_5615.JPG


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#36 Pablo

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Posted 19 June 2015 - 06:30 PM

Last chance I'll have to clean and polish under the TM tongue before the rear pan limiters are affixed:

 

IMG_5645.JPG

 

Since this piece pushes the pan and body, I figured it was worth cleaning, sanding with 400 wet/dry, then polishing with 2,000 wet/dry:

 

IMG_5651.JPG


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#37 Pablo

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Posted 20 June 2015 - 05:25 PM

Rear pan management:

 

The (.039") wires protrude slightly past the front of the 3/32" square tube pieces as a visual reference for lift and wiggle. The wire must be level and straight in relation to the tubes. Tacked, checked on a FLAT block, adjusted, re-checked, then soldered home.

 

IMG_5673.JPG

 

Front wheels:

 

Custom keepers made from JK aluminum hubs.  Set screws shortened, just for fun.  :wink3:

 

IMG_5682.JPG  

 

All eight rotating surfaces were faced with a Magnehone tool, then polished with 2,000 grit wet/dry sandpaper

 

IMG_5687.JPG  


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#38 Pablo

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Posted 20 June 2015 - 07:07 PM

Front axle trimmed to size for a perfectly centered 3.122" width

 

IMG_5688.JPG

 

I found if the axle ends are cut a hair shorter than the outside retainers, it makes a little nest for the solder to pool up quick before bad things happen.

 

IMG_5690.JPG

 

Tinning the freshly cut axle ends helps make the retainer soldering process pain-free.

 

IMG_5700.JPG


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#39 Pablo

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Posted 20 June 2015 - 08:51 PM

I don't remember what brand these non-shielded ball bearings are, but they sure are thin. It will be nothing short of a miracle if I'm able to solder them in without problems.  :P

They were soaked in lacquer thinner to remove factory grease.

 

IMG_5715.JPG

 

Cleaned up the R-Geo jig wheels, and checked my PCH 3/32" jig axle for straightness

 

IMG_5711.JPG

 

This time, I'm trying a different approach to setting bearings. All the pin sleeves came off the R-Geo jig.

The middle pins still align the 3.125" legal width, but the axle pins only serve as visual references.

 

IMG_5713.JPG

 

Mike Steube in the Keith Tanaka video proclaimed himself a "freebuilder". Anybody else catch that? I did.

By removing the sleeves, it frees everything up.

 

If this works, the bearings will be soldered in and set perfectly, first time, no problemo. If not, it will be painful   :dash2: :laugh2:  


Paul Wolcott

#40 Gator Bob

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Posted 20 June 2015 - 09:06 PM

Loctite 680.


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#41 Pablo

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Posted 20 June 2015 - 09:23 PM

I have 271, but you have about 30 minutes to convince me to change my mind before I solder them in.  :bomb: :)


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Paul Wolcott

#42 Pablo

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Posted 20 June 2015 - 10:16 PM

These have to be Kofords. When I spin the axle, once it finally stops, the set screws bottom out like lead weights. 


IMG_5718.JPG

 

Good Lord, I hope I don't screw these up...

 

Now, where did I put that doggone silver solder? :D

 

IMG_5723.JPG


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#43 Bill from NH

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Posted 20 June 2015 - 10:23 PM

Soldering may anneal the bearing's balls and other parts. On motor bearings that were soldered in cans, we used ultrasonic cleaners to first remove all signs of lubrication. Later, we soldered in a brass bearing holder to center the bearing and glued the can bearings. Brian Saunders did the thing when he was building contemporary scale motors.


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My wife says I don't pay enough attention to her, or something like that.  :unknw:


#44 Pablo

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Posted 20 June 2015 - 11:34 PM

Success.  :)

 

The Koford BBs clung to the Chi bracket like a koala to a eucalyptus branch. 

 

IMG_5732.JPG

 

Into the tumbler she goes...


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Paul Wolcott

#45 NSwanberg

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Posted 21 June 2015 - 12:03 AM

"Tinning the freshly cut axle ends helps make the retainer soldering process pain-free"

 

I am more interested in a pain-free removal process. :dash2: 


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#46 Pablo

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Posted 21 June 2015 - 12:24 AM

Look at the second photo in post #38, Nelson.

 

To remove the wheel, apply a drop of acid flux, heat, then pull. The wheel and retainer both come right off.

 

Just don't expect to ever find, or use, the retainer again.  :)


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Paul Wolcott

#47 Michael Rigsby

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Posted 21 June 2015 - 06:59 AM

Really enjoying this build, Pablo. Very sanitary and well thought out construction as usual.


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#48 dc-65x

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Posted 21 June 2015 - 10:03 AM

Looking good, Pablo. You know, it reminds me a bit of TonyP's Starship.


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#49 Pablo

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Posted 21 June 2015 - 11:42 AM

Thanks, guys.  :)

 

Out of the tumbler, she had a ceramic piece inside the tongue tube that took forever to get out.  :dash2: :laugh2:

 

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Paul Wolcott

#50 Pablo

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Posted 21 June 2015 - 04:35 PM

Chicagoland Wide bracket:

 

- JK Hawk Retro motor with ARP 9t pinion mates to 28t Parma crown perfectly by simply making it flush with the end of the shaft.

- Bracket hole mikes about .248", but pinion mikes about .252". Easy fix, a couple light passes with a chainsaw file...

 

IMG_5788.JPG

 

JK Indy 2" body clips with a "racing bend" up front.

Making the holes precisely paid off here; a very slight tweak was all it took to make them an absolute perfect fit.

Not trying to brag, but I've done this before. Bunky says "It ain't braggin' if ya can back it up".  :)

 

IMG_5791.JPG


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