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Ferrari 512M by BRM of Italy


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#1 n9949y

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Posted 24 May 2015 - 05:39 PM

Though I race exclusively 1/24th scale scratch built cars constructed with custom brass chassis and model kit plastic & resin bodies, I’m intrigued by the increasing popularity of 1/24th BRM and ScaleAuto RTR cars elsewhere. I’ve bought a few and am impressed with their advancing chassis technical innovations leading to much better running slot cars (except Carrera.) And they all (Carrera, too) excel in presenting such scale authenticity that they make impressive shelf models.

 

I bought a newly released “BRM” slot car, the beautifully rendered 1/24th 1971 Penske Ferrari 512M. Advertising and public relations comments indicate BRM released this particular slot car in limited production of 500 samples, so its available price across the retail field is near $200- not a cheap slot car for the casual inexperienced runner.

 

Didn't have to spend too much time tweaking the chassis- adjusted rear spring rates, re-oriented the guide flag so its leading edge wouldn't dig into the lane tape, changed to sponge tires and added some lead weight to the chassis pans. I found the accurately modeled slot car quite fast and smooth that handles surprisingly well on our tight, multi-cornered track. I see on the Internet some groups who race BRM's. I think this latest BRM with its aluminum chassis and "floating" body mounting makes for a very competative slot car in the authentic scale ready-to-run racing community.

 

Did a modeling revision. Like so many RTR's, ScaleAuto, Carrera, AutoArt and BRM slot cars, the driver figures appear too toy-like, so I substituted a better figure from a Fujimi Driver Figure kit, 1100-4 G T-4, who wears the appropriate period helmet, has decaled wide shoulder harness and is equipped with red colored safety gloves. Ordered some decals from Pattos, Australia, to change this model from its 1971 Le Mans appearance to the  #6, 1040 chassis Penske with drivers Mark Donohue & David Hobbs raced at Watkins Glen, July 1971.

 

512M%20driver%20side%20by%20hamburger%20

 

512M%20with%20Fujimi%20driver%20frontal_

 

512M%20Left%20side%20color%20correction_

 

512M%20Dundas%20Glen_zpsmrg2t2wm.jpg

 

512M%20driver%20side%20color%20correct_z

 

512M%20rear%20color%20correct_edited-1_z


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Todd Messinger

Remember folks, traffic lights timed for 35 MPH, are also timed for 70!




#2 Pappy

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Posted 24 May 2015 - 05:53 PM

Nice looking car, Todd.

 

The realism of hard plastic bodied cars like this is the reason I'm racing mostly 1/32 scale hard body cars now. I can get them running great on my track using silicone tires.

 

I've got a Carrera Porsche 917 that I want to build a retro chassis for just to see how well it runs. I think it would be a fun class to race.


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#3 n9949y

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Posted 24 May 2015 - 06:02 PM

Jim,

 

Interesting you mention a Carrera Porsche 917. I used one to set up a "racing" photo......

512M%20amp%20917%20over%20Mesac%20stands


Todd Messinger

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#4 Pappy

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Posted 24 May 2015 - 09:31 PM

My Carrera 917 is the red one.


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#5 Dayble

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Posted 24 May 2015 - 10:42 PM

Todd,

 

BRM has available Ferrari style rear wheel inserts that will fit the BRM foam tires that you purchased. Like your driver figure this will give you more realism than those black Porsche 917 wheel inserts that those tires came with.

Another add on item you may may find useful is a 6.5mm dia. X 6.5mm long 11t brass pinion. This will give you the length needed no matter what spur gear you chose. It too is supplied only as a BRM 917 part # S-068. Some of the parts are shared across the BRM anglewinder platforms but labeled for one specific type car. The pinion supplied is 4.5mm long and may need to be pulled out a bit if you chose to lower the chassis by rotating the eccentric bushing carriers. It looks like you have not lowered your car by these pictures. There are three options, leave it, reverse the supplied bushings in the rear uprights or purchase S-011 AWC "central hole" or "zero position" bushings and install them. I initially flipped mine over but even though the handling was excellent it looked wrong because the tops of the wheels were up in the fender wells. I ordered the optional bushings and I like the the stance much better. The long pinion is great because neither the axle or the motor can move front to back so the only way to get a good mesh is to move the pinion in or out for the size of spur gear. This does not work well at all with the 4.5mm long supplied pinion especially in the lowest chassis

position in which the centerline of the axle is furthest from the motor shaft. Mine came from the factory pressed on only half way. Here is a pic of the set up in "zero position" Obviously the wheels and tires are not exactly "scale" like those of the Carrera 512S but BRM seems to size them more for slotcar functionality.

 

P1030389_zps5dm2guxv.jpg

 

Here too is one way to make a Carrera go quite well...

 

P1020898_zps8772c2a0.jpg


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#6 n9949y

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 03:19 AM

Thanks, Dave, for the tips. I'm venturing for the first time into RTR cars since 1964. I do need to lower the 512M slightly. Photos of the 1:1 Penske #1040 chassis show it pretty snug to the pavement.

 

I've also bought 1/24 Carrera cars because I've used the bodies on my scratch built chassis for our regular racing program, but I'm loathe to take apart my Carrera 1967 Ferrari 330P- it looks so good that I'll probably experiment with replacing the Carrera 18V motor with a 12V.


Todd Messinger

Remember folks, traffic lights timed for 35 MPH, are also timed for 70!

#7 Michael Rigsby

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 08:15 AM

Todd, that is a really nice looking livery.


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#8 idare2bdul

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 08:42 AM

Very nice but $200+ of my money wouldn't go into a car I raced on a home track and a $200 diecast might be a better choice for a display model. To each is own.


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#9 Tex

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 09:38 AM

Mike, we race the BRM's on wooden routed tracks, same with Scaleauto's. Yes, they are expensive but they look SO good/realistic AND, once setup and tweaked, very little ongoing maintenance is needed from one race to the next. But ya gots to have a group of similarly infected slot car guys to have a race; getting a group formed could be a challenge. The best way to "infect" them is to take one to the track, let them see it, let them drive it, let them see how wel they handle. My very first 1/24 hardbody experience was an inline BRM Porsche 962. Let's just say it was an "experience" and not all good. The best thing you could say about them besides looking good was at least EVERYone's car was pretty much the same performance-wise.... made for good racing. I was recently given one of the platic BRM anglewinder chassis'. I've built it up but have yet to run it... should handle better. And now I see these aluminum chassis BRM's.... guess I'll have to spring for one down the road. In the meantime, I just bought a new Scaleauto short wheelbase chassis kit(a gazillion pieces... MAN do they need some instructions!) and am going to put a Tamiya body on it(probably McLaren-Elva). The 2 biggest plusses about hardbody racing is the looks and the lack of needed maintenance between races.... just grab your box and go. And the handling is decent for what they are; remember.... lead is your friend!


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#10 Dayble

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 11:27 AM

Todd,

I use the Carrera bodies on other chassis as well and I also have one 330 that I keep off the track because it is so nice looking. The Carrera 512S in my picture above is another that is just drop dead gorgeous. Too bad thier 917s and GT-40s are so narrow, probably a compromise for racing on plastic track. Regardless we run them with the bearing equipped axle carrier, spur gear and aluminum wheels from Frankenslot.de and IndyGrip 7015 silicones. The motor pod set up I posted is working well but I am now experimenting with a 3D motor pod by Devis3D that is designed to hold a FC-130 type motor. I'm grinding it out a little material from it right now because the H&R "Cobra" 26K motor is just a little bigger than most FCs.

 

Something else that you may find with the BRM 512 is that the motor pod can be warped. It seems to be a common problem (We have about a half dozen running now.) the probable solution is to use the Slot-it approved method of plastic chassis straightening but we're not sure if the material will take the boiling temp without shriveling up. We'll let Alan or BRM look at that. In the mean time we are shimming as much as .030" under the suspension mount.


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#11 Dayble

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 11:39 AM

Update. An easier method for shimming the pod is to put the spacer under the smaller brass adjusting screw rather than under the whole mount.


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#12 n9949y

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 01:49 PM

One of our 12 classes is "Gran Sports," for 1960-1970 prototypes and limited production sports, FIA Group 4, 5, & 6, in the 1:1 world.  I've scratch built a few using bodies from plastic and resin kits:  1963 GS Corvette (accurate Miniatures), '64 Cheetah(Cox), '65 Cobra Coupe (Hasegawa), '67 Ferrari 330p (Fujimi), '68 Ford GT-40 (fujimi), '69 Ferrari 312P Berinetta (Fisher Resin) and '70 Porsche 917(Fujimi).

 

1:1 Car building that decade underwent vast technical changes. In recent years most all Pelican Park members have built cars of the late '60's, including Porsche  917. On our track a corvette GS bodied slot car is not competative with a Porshce 917 bodied.

 

Hoping to again use a Carrera slot car body I purchased a Carrera 917. To my dismay I found it narrower than the 1:1 car, thus narrower than the accurately proportioned Fujimi model kit body. The real one's specs: ,4,560 mm (179.5 in) length; 2,100 mm (82.7 in) width; 1,080 mm (42.5 in height;  / 2,300 mm (90.6 in) wheel base;  1,564 mm (61.6 in) track, front;   1,584 mm (62.4 in), track rear. The Carrera's 917 measured width is 3" which translate to 1,828mm (72in)  in the 1:1 world". Compared with the Fujimi body at 3-7/16 in means the 3.0 in. Carrera bodied 917 gives away almost a 1/2 inch in width to the Fujimi, which turns the narrower Carrera into a significant handling disadvantage on our track.

 

I'm contemplating using a BRM Porsche 917 body for my rebuilt Porsche 917, so I'm asking: How wide is the BRM 917?


Todd Messinger

Remember folks, traffic lights timed for 35 MPH, are also timed for 70!

#13 Dayble

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 02:39 PM

I use the Fujimi 917 in our H&R / ProTrack class because I built it before BRM introduced thier 917. If I were building the car today I would use the BRM body because is is quite strong having been made for racing. The BRM is 3-3/8" across the outside of the rear fenders, about the same as the Fujimi.

In the pic below is a BRM > Fujimi > Carrera > BRM.

 

BRMFujimiCarrera_zpsa4gqhypj.jpg


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#14 n9949y

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 03:19 PM

Thanks! So I'll buy a BRM for my next 917 rather than a fujimi.


Todd Messinger

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#15 Dayble

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 04:20 PM

Here'a a thought...

 

Build your scratch chassis to use the BRM o-ring body mount post. I doubt it's ever been done.

 

BRM will soon be releasing the 512 type chassis for the 917. They've not announced the price yet but it may be something I will try at least on one of my cars. We follow the BRM rules pretty closely down here so we have not added weight or modified the 917 plastic chassis. If these metal chassis get developed to the point of dominating then the gloves are off. ;)

We had our first mixed race between plastic 917 and the new 512 on Steve Hill's (Search AZGR on Slotblog) "Cherry Hills" hillclimb last Wed (5/20/15) and a 917 won but the most developed 512 was a very close second, down by only one lap.

My first impression is that the plastic chassis 917 is lighter and therefore faster on the straights but much harder to drive in the corners. The metal chassis 512 has a more powerful motor but they break in slowly (And last a long time!) and we may not have seen everything these cars have yet. The handling on the metal car is almost as balanced and as forgiving as a ScaleAuto.

That is impressive!


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#16 n9949y

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 05:03 PM

Impressive track with more scale authenticity than the usual track.

 

I'll  wait for the metal chassis- a far better set up for racing.


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#17 S.O. Watt

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 06:29 PM

The 917 was really quite a small race car.

The 917K is  the most popular version, the '69 version was the one that was infamous for flying. Here's a few pix for reference

 

 

Attached Images

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  • PorscheRacers_zps4c63e8ad.jpg

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#18 n9949y

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 07:17 PM

512M_1070_DV-06-CAV-0Engine-02_zpsnpzhuu


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Todd Messinger

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#19 n9949y

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 07:33 PM

With some Patto's decals changed the car from it's Le Mans appearance to its
July 24, 1971 Watkins Glen markings. From #11 to #6; from the aluminum
colored Goodyear wing to the painted Sunoco wing.

71%20Ferrari%20512M%20R%20overhead_zpsug

 

71%20Ferrari%20512M%20R%20Side%20Watkins

 

71%20Ferrari%20512M%20Watkins%20Glen%20L


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Todd Messinger

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#20 Dayble

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 07:40 PM

Very Nice!


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#21 drrufo

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 11:20 PM

Isn't the middle photo a line of 908? Too many differences to be 917s


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#22 Dayble

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 11:29 PM

Original 917s.


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#23 MSwiss

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 12:19 AM

Isn't the middle photo a line of 908? Too many differences to be 917s

Those are the 25 original 917's that had to be presented to the CSI/FIA to he deemed legal.

None are believed to have survived with that particular (unsuccessful) bodywork.

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#24 MG Brown

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 09:05 AM

I'd be tempted to buy cars such as the BRM Ferrari, but there is no place in this area that is holding races for them.


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#25 Tex

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 10:39 AM

Prime the pump, MG; buy one, drive it around your local track and see if it generates any interest.


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#26 MG Brown

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 01:23 PM

1> "Local track" is an unfortunate joke. Closest to me are a minimum of an hour either north or south. Sad that we have closed so many tracks in such a short period of time in an area with over 10 million citizens.

 

2> Too often in the past a series was planned or announced and I was one of the first to buy the equipment only to have it "stillborn". Never again.


"I'm just here for the entertainment." George Carlin


#27 n9949y

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Posted 03 June 2016 - 05:01 PM

Am looking at Carrera's 1/24 version of the 1970 Ferrari 512S, Having discovered at the cost of purchasing Carrera's Porsche 917  is narrower than Fujimi's shelf model and B.R.M.'s which measure out at 3.25 inches or, 1:1, 78 inches which is the accurate measure.

 

Am now thinking about purchasing  Carrera's version of a 1970 Ferrari 512S. The real or 1:1 car width measures 78.7 inches or in 1/24th, 3.25 inches. Does anyone know what the width of Carrera's 1/24th Ferrari 512S measures at?


Todd Messinger

Remember folks, traffic lights timed for 35 MPH, are also timed for 70!

#28 Dayble

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Posted 03 June 2016 - 05:23 PM

Hey Todd,

 

The 512S is 3-9/32" in the hips.  Probably narrow VS the original but you must remember that Carrera makes their cars narrower for their two lane plastic home tracks. They may be too narrow in scale but there is not a prettier 1/24th 512S out there. I have all three Carrera liveries. I have hopped up the yellow #23 with Frankenslot.de parts and I'm planning a Slotting Plus chassis with BRM running gear for the Red and Gold #4.


Dave Deuble

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#29 Dennis David

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Posted 03 June 2016 - 06:34 PM

Love to see some pictures and info on the modifications

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#30 n9949y

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Posted 03 June 2016 - 06:35 PM

Dave, Thanks. I'll get one!


Todd Messinger

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#31 sportblazer350

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 06:08 PM

beautiful car! I just ordered a BRM Ferrari 512 white body kit, wheel inserts, and the painted lexan cockpit to be mounted on a H&R Racing chassis for our Hardbody class here in New Jersey (The Race Place, Farmingdale,NJ). I will also mount a factory painted BRM Porsche 917 body onto another H&R Racing chassis for the same class. I mounted a BRM factory painted Porsche 962C onto a B&E chassis for our Hardbody Challenge class, with full plastic interior to boot! The body fits perfectly, and the car performs well.  And I plan to use more BRM (and Scaleauto) bodies on cars for these 2 Hardbody classes.  


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#32 Dennis David

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 08:25 PM

Great to hear all of the hardbody news. While it's still a small niche the joining of great looking bodies and kit with low maintenance chassis is a natural. Speed is relative and these run great on a routed flat track with sponge tires.


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#33 sportblazer350

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 09:17 PM

Dennis, yes I agree. Hardbody Scale racing brings me back to the early days of commercial track racing: model car racing vs slot car racing. The real scale cars, at slower than modern car speeds, look fantastic on the track, especially with a full field of 6-8 cars. I can see a lot of potential for  Hardbody racing to once again be very popular at raceways. And half or more of the fun is in the building of the cars.  


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