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Harry Olds "Long John" 4WD drag car build


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#1 Joe Mig

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Posted 13 June 2015 - 03:05 PM

First off id like to thank John Havlicek for the opportunity to do a build with this masterpiece of a motor,the "Long John" that is a custom 16 DD.

As I sat down to study just how I might do this and looking at how to mount up this dubble end bell drive motor I remember some old motor mounts I had so I dig them out and they fit perfectly.

20150611_103050.jpg 20150611_102829.jpg

I had some axel carriers but im not sure if ill be using them.
I do have an idea on how to build the chassisso I can remove the motor if needed.
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Joseph Migliaccio. Karma it's a wonderful thing.

"Drive it like you're in it!!!"

"If everything feels under control... you are not going fast enough!"

Some people are like Slinkies... they're really good for nothing... but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.




#2 Joe Mig

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Posted 13 June 2015 - 03:20 PM

Next up is the model the "Hurst Hairy Olds" I realy wanted to use but at 1/24th scale I think it's just to long of a wheelbase. At just about 5 inches the only way I could do it is to use a little drive shaft extion and I'm not a big fan of that but I think I came up with a solution that might just work.


20150613_151741.jpg 20150613_151806.jpg
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Joseph Migliaccio. Karma it's a wonderful thing.

"Drive it like you're in it!!!"

"If everything feels under control... you are not going fast enough!"

Some people are like Slinkies... they're really good for nothing... but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

#3 havlicek

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Posted 14 June 2015 - 12:42 PM

Hi Joe...I love the model you chose!  Keep on a-buildin' !

 

-john


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John Havlicek

#4 Joe Mig

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Posted 14 June 2015 - 02:28 PM

I am John I have it figured out and it should work out great.
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Joseph Migliaccio. Karma it's a wonderful thing.

"Drive it like you're in it!!!"

"If everything feels under control... you are not going fast enough!"

Some people are like Slinkies... they're really good for nothing... but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

#5 Lone Wolf

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Posted 14 June 2015 - 05:32 PM

Mig, if you need any odds and ends to complete the car, no charge, let me know.

 

Maybe I'll meet you at Slots for a Hairy Olds showdown with my car when you are done.

 

I am sure you will have a large weight advantage on me. 

 

Here are a couple construction pics. You can see how I retained the model interior by building a false floor. 

 

DSC06414.JPG

 

DSC06426.JPG

 

DSC06427.JPG


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Joe Lupo


#6 havlicek

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Posted 14 June 2015 - 07:27 PM

Very cool car Joe!

 

 

 

I am sure you will have a large weight advantage on me.

 

With such unusual cars, I think it's about way more than *just* sheer performance (although 2 Kemtrons ought to provide a LOT of torque!).  I think it has a lot to do with elegance and engineering "period" solutions, and yours has plenty of both.   That's why I'm very interested in all this and to see what Joe Mig comes up with.

 

-john 
 


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John Havlicek

#7 Lone Wolf

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Posted 14 June 2015 - 08:10 PM

Thanks John. A lot of work went into the car including making a "front" motor mount and getting the guide to work. The body was a soggy mess that my Godson rescued from the dump!

 

I sent it to the proxy drags but it didn't perform as I expected. it only made two runs there and I never had any tuning time on it.

 

I want to maybe zap the motors and fool with the gearing a little to see what happens.

 

If all else fails I know this guy here on Long Island that rewinds arms  :crazy:


Joe Lupo


#8 Joe Mig

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Posted 14 June 2015 - 08:56 PM

Thanks for the offer Joe ill let you know but I think I have it covered.
Nice build Joe get that bad boy redy to do some heads up racing.

I guess the Hairy olds did a number to most of us seing the builds and intrest.
Joseph Migliaccio. Karma it's a wonderful thing.

"Drive it like you're in it!!!"

"If everything feels under control... you are not going fast enough!"

Some people are like Slinkies... they're really good for nothing... but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

#9 Jairus

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 09:33 AM

Neat project Joseph!

Since Drag cars don't require the normal weight placement, I would push that monster motor as far forward as possible and use an extension shaft at the rear.  That way you might be able to get away without using wheelie bars. ( I think they ruin the scale aspect of these builds)

Also, since the car doesn't go around corners, maybe try moving that guide back behind the front bumper.

 

I have been thinking about building a drag car myself. Even built one stock just so I could "bench race" other ideas.

As for a two-motor Hurst Hairy Olds.... I got one started myself too!

 

IMG_0762-vi.jpg

Well, it's not duel motored yet. The idea was to write an article about modifying the newer AMT chassis with a 1966 Olds body mounted on top.
First stage is finish the body and race the stock chassis with an average drag race time.
Then start modifying until ultimately two chassis are soldered together to provide two motor brackets.

Building this Hairy Olds as the early 1966 car by the way.

 


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#10 Marty N

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 09:53 AM

What a nice thread. :good:


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#11 Gator Bob

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 09:55 AM

Joe L. ... your car is very nicely built and performed perfectly fine, no bad habits it just was slow.

IMO ... It's geared much too high (numerically) for the power band .. bigger pinion/smaller crown and your done.

 

If you look at the timeslips you got back with the car check the incremental. You were killing me at the 60ft and then had no 'steam' at the other end.

 

Joe Mig, ... about the 'Show and Tell' drift.

 

For reference not sure you saw it ...  here is that car you don't want to take but I said run for pink slips   :curtsey: ..  LOL

 

Starts here...   :o


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#12 Joe Mig

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 12:31 PM

I would push that monster motor as far forward as possible and use an extension shaft at the rear.  That way you might be able to get away without using wheelie bars. ( I think they ruin the scale aspect of these builds).

 

 
IMG_0762-vi.jpg

 [/quote]

Thats what i have in mind and did some mock up using the motor mount from a sprint car chassis up in front.
putting the weight up front and a drive shaft to a rear motot mount.

Nice build by the way and I think most of us building this car feel the same about no wheelbars.
Now all I need is one of those littli Linder V.
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Joseph Migliaccio. Karma it's a wonderful thing.

"Drive it like you're in it!!!"

"If everything feels under control... you are not going fast enough!"

Some people are like Slinkies... they're really good for nothing... but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

#13 Joe Mig

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 01:20 PM

This is what im up to at this point.
its not your standard build so it takes some extra time thinking and fabricating things like the motor mount and how to build so you could remove the motor if needed.

20150616_123210.jpg 20150616_123223.jpg 20150616_123711.jpg 20150616_125126.jpg
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Joseph Migliaccio. Karma it's a wonderful thing.

"Drive it like you're in it!!!"

"If everything feels under control... you are not going fast enough!"

Some people are like Slinkies... they're really good for nothing... but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

#14 Joe Mig

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 01:23 PM

Well I cannot believe I forgot to take the picture of it in the jig with a arm bushing in both the front and rear mounts
with a shaft to mimic an armature and make sure there is no bind.
20150616_140558.jpg
this is where I left off and needed a little break.
Joseph Migliaccio. Karma it's a wonderful thing.

"Drive it like you're in it!!!"

"If everything feels under control... you are not going fast enough!"

Some people are like Slinkies... they're really good for nothing... but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

#15 NY Nick

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Posted 18 June 2015 - 01:51 PM

Nice build Joe


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#16 Joe Mig

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Posted 21 June 2015 - 11:43 AM

I got to work on it a bit today.
motor mounts complete and this way I will be able to remove it if needed.

20150621_102305.jpg

Next uo what to do for the guide flag.
20150621_105459.jpg
i think ill do a drop arm.
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Joseph Migliaccio. Karma it's a wonderful thing.

"Drive it like you're in it!!!"

"If everything feels under control... you are not going fast enough!"

Some people are like Slinkies... they're really good for nothing... but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

#17 SlotStox#53

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Posted 21 June 2015 - 01:00 PM

Cool build so far Joe :good:
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#18 Joe Mig

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Posted 21 June 2015 - 04:25 PM

A little more done to get an idea on how ill do a drop arm and to see how she will look.
got to work on a drive shaft next.

20150621_110155.jpg 20150621_111947.jpg 20150621_112119.jpg
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Joseph Migliaccio. Karma it's a wonderful thing.

"Drive it like you're in it!!!"

"If everything feels under control... you are not going fast enough!"

Some people are like Slinkies... they're really good for nothing... but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

#19 Joe Mig

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 08:21 PM

Okay I've got the drop arm finished up and I put in a order with Scott from PCH for the rest of the parts needed to finish up the chassis on this bad boy.

20150623_210955-1_resized.jpg 20150623_210938-1_resized.jpg 20150623_211024-1_resized_1.jpg
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Joseph Migliaccio. Karma it's a wonderful thing.

"Drive it like you're in it!!!"

"If everything feels under control... you are not going fast enough!"

Some people are like Slinkies... they're really good for nothing... but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

#20 Joe Mig

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Posted 24 June 2015 - 06:48 AM

Okay a question for you 1/4 mile slot car drag guys out there.
how fast do you think this no wheelie bar car will cover the 1/4 mile track?
Joseph Migliaccio. Karma it's a wonderful thing.

"Drive it like you're in it!!!"

"If everything feels under control... you are not going fast enough!"

Some people are like Slinkies... they're really good for nothing... but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

#21 hiline2

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Posted 24 June 2015 - 09:54 AM

eh, fast ? :i-m_so_happy:


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#22 Karl Bates

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Posted 24 June 2015 - 08:45 PM

Depends on the output of that double ended motor and gearing, waiting to see myself!!


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#23 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 24 June 2015 - 09:00 PM

swag method - 1.85


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#24 MSwiss

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Posted 24 June 2015 - 10:40 PM

1.15
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Mike Swiss
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#25 boxerdog

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 08:48 AM

I like Charlie's 1.85 if you are talking about the 1000' track. Maybe 2.0 on 55 feet???


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#26 Joe Mig

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 08:53 AM

Im talking a scale 1/4 mile track and im thinking like Mike Swiss at 1.15 to 1.25 that is what im shooting for. Time will tell.
Joseph Migliaccio. Karma it's a wonderful thing.

"Drive it like you're in it!!!"

"If everything feels under control... you are not going fast enough!"

Some people are like Slinkies... they're really good for nothing... but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

#27 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 09:00 AM

I'm thinking weight and no glue 4wd w resistance on 2 sets of axles and 2 gear meshes...then again there might be some extra horses in that beast H Power...I'll be surprised if she beats 1.35.

Avg 16D proslot motor times with a 90 gram car and glue usually run around 1.00 - 1.05 on a scale 1/4 drag track w 16 volts.


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Charlie McCullough

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#28 Don Weaver

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 09:39 AM

1.55


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#29 hiline2

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 11:29 AM

heck ! Let's just go 36V and smoke all four tires !!   :good:

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#30 Joe Mig

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 08:59 PM

Its comming along bit by bit. I recived my order from PCH nice and fast.

In and out with long John to get the drive shaft done and next time the motor goes in it stays for a while. I cut the tires down to the hight of the ones from the model but im not going to norrow them untill a shakedown.
I did the front body mount and the rear is next.

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Joseph Migliaccio. Karma it's a wonderful thing.

"Drive it like you're in it!!!"

"If everything feels under control... you are not going fast enough!"

Some people are like Slinkies... they're really good for nothing... but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

#31 havlicek

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 06:59 AM

Really nice Joe!  Now the ultimate question: will it burn rubber...or just burn?  :)  Build-on!

 

-john


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#32 Joe Mig

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 07:24 AM

I've gotten some nice soft tires for it and im hoping it will run without glue.
im starting with 16/62 =3.875 gearing so it is not to hard of a hit off the line and I think Lil John should have plenty of torque.

Weight distribution feels really good 4 wheel drive and the drop arm, I think will be a great combination with Little John.
Joseph Migliaccio. Karma it's a wonderful thing.

"Drive it like you're in it!!!"

"If everything feels under control... you are not going fast enough!"

Some people are like Slinkies... they're really good for nothing... but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

#33 don.siegel

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 10:47 AM

Nice Job Joe, and congrats for getting to this build so quickly - I'd still be thinking about it! 

 

I'm not that familiar with the gearing on can type motors: does it need something that high? (as opposed to the 2.5:1 or so on the padlocks). Especially if it's got as much torque as we assume, should be able to lower it to 3:1 or so. 

 

What kind of gearing do the S16D cars run? 

 

Don 


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#34 Joe Mig

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 10:55 AM

Its got tall tires and I think its a good starting point. S16D close to that ratio with inlines some times higher.
Time will tell when I get to try her out.
we'll see if it runs out of breath before the finish line. I could always change it.
Joseph Migliaccio. Karma it's a wonderful thing.

"Drive it like you're in it!!!"

"If everything feels under control... you are not going fast enough!"

Some people are like Slinkies... they're really good for nothing... but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

#35 dc-65x

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 12:45 PM

Neat build Joe....and John!

 

.............we'll see if it runs out of breath before the finish line........

 

I will lean towards a lower gear too Joe. Personally, I find it easier to tell if a car is "running out of breath" than to tell if it's still pulling.

 

Onward!  :good:


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#36 MSwiss

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 01:19 PM


Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)

Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder (pointless era - lol)

 

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17B West Ogden Ave
Westmont, IL 60559
(708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516. Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#37 Joe Mig

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 06:13 PM

I sure hope it goes straighter then that Mike.


So both body mounts complete and this is the stance. A bit high but the olny choice I have wirh the tall tires all around and I wanted the rear to sit the same as the front and not lower.
all in all not bad.

20150626_182800_resized.jpg 20150626_182239_resized.jpg 20150626_182342_resized.jpg
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Joseph Migliaccio. Karma it's a wonderful thing.

"Drive it like you're in it!!!"

"If everything feels under control... you are not going fast enough!"

Some people are like Slinkies... they're really good for nothing... but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

#38 Joe Mig

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 06:17 PM

Time for the last chassis bath.
next step is assembly of the motor and chassis running gear.

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Joseph Migliaccio. Karma it's a wonderful thing.

"Drive it like you're in it!!!"

"If everything feels under control... you are not going fast enough!"

Some people are like Slinkies... they're really good for nothing... but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

#39 Joe Mig

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 06:07 PM

It lives !
Today I mounted the motor and set up the drive line and fired it up on 6 volts 4 D battery's to get an idea if everything is okay. It was surprisingly smooth so I broke it in at 5 volts on the power pack for a few.

Kind of a special moment when I was setting up the gear mesh on the second side and the tires on the other side were moving. Somthing I've never experienced before.

The tires I used are just for this test because I want to round off the edges on the set I'm going to use.

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20150627_184138-1_resized.jpg
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Joseph Migliaccio. Karma it's a wonderful thing.

"Drive it like you're in it!!!"

"If everything feels under control... you are not going fast enough!"

Some people are like Slinkies... they're really good for nothing... but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

#40 Joe Mig

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 09:33 PM

I have a realy good feeling about this car. Tires and drive train all done for now. This thing is nice and smooth. I did not lock down the guid flag just in case i want to take a few easy laps.

Im going to use the wheel insects from the kit and then do the body next. I think ill put it on the track to get an idea on how its going to run.

Definitely the heaviest drag car I have built so far but with Long John in there it should be like twice the power.

20150627_221453-1.jpg

20150627_221505-1.jpg
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Joseph Migliaccio. Karma it's a wonderful thing.

"Drive it like you're in it!!!"

"If everything feels under control... you are not going fast enough!"

Some people are like Slinkies... they're really good for nothing... but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

#41 NY Nick

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Posted 28 June 2015 - 09:37 AM

Sets nice


Nick Cerulli

#42 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 28 June 2015 - 09:41 AM

The stance and the big tires look like an old school short track stock car. Nice work.  :)


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Eddie Fleming

#43 Samiam

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Posted 28 June 2015 - 10:07 AM

Looking good Joe.

 

Let me know when you're going to SAL for a test run. I'll meet you there.


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Sam Levitch
 
When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything is a nail.
Support your local raceway, or you won't have one.
Slot cars are quad-pods.
Support your "Local Racer."
:laugh2:

#44 Joe Mig

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Posted 28 June 2015 - 10:03 PM

The stance and the big tires look like an old school short track stock car. Nice work.  :)


Yep I like the old modified stock cars as well.
The Hairy Olds is a twin motor 4 wheel drive drag car.

Screenshot_2015-06-28-10-50-41-1.png
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Joseph Migliaccio. Karma it's a wonderful thing.

"Drive it like you're in it!!!"

"If everything feels under control... you are not going fast enough!"

Some people are like Slinkies... they're really good for nothing... but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

#45 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 08:58 AM

Love the exhaust pipes...are those hubcaps?


Charlie McCullough

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Bartos Chassis

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#46 Joe Mig

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 09:19 AM

Love the exhaust pipes...are those hubcaps?


Those are original Tornado wheels made for front wheel drive automobile.
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Joseph Migliaccio. Karma it's a wonderful thing.

"Drive it like you're in it!!!"

"If everything feels under control... you are not going fast enough!"

Some people are like Slinkies... they're really good for nothing... but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

#47 Joe Mig

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Posted 30 June 2015 - 10:29 AM

Not bad for the first runs, the first few were in the two second range and I didn't realize the rear drive shaft was slipping and thinking I was spinning tire I use glue a bit disappointed.

After inspection is when I realized the drive shaft was slipping so I had Sam Reesolder it for me as he was at the workbench at Slots A Lot and put it back on the track going a 1.7 at 25 miles per hour.

That was enough I wanted to take it home and clean off the tires and maybe true them down a little bit since I think there was too much tire on the car.

The car leaves the line very nicely without the wheelie bar.

I think I will have to try to find a 17 tooth gear because the car was running out of steam about three quarter track.
Joseph Migliaccio. Karma it's a wonderful thing.

"Drive it like you're in it!!!"

"If everything feels under control... you are not going fast enough!"

Some people are like Slinkies... they're really good for nothing... but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

#48 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 30 June 2015 - 02:24 PM

This thread is too cool, when the car is detailed and tuned you'll have a keeper for sure!  Congrats Joe.

 

Try a set of .435 tires...or even a set of .300...if you can get the wheels to ride somewhere other than the normal glue strip down the track, the car will probably like skinnier tires.  Are you planning this for a bracket beast?    


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Charlie McCullough

Charlie's Speed Shop

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Bartos Chassis

Outisight Bodies

R-Geo / Koford / ARP
 


#49 Gator Bob

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Posted 30 June 2015 - 02:46 PM

Love the exhaust pipes...are those hubcaps?

 

Steel positive offset wheels chromed w/ center hub cap. Painted with trim ring show below.

1966_oldsmobile_toronado__black_with_whi


Bob Israelite

#50 Joe Mig

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Posted 30 June 2015 - 03:37 PM


 
Try a set of .435 tires...or even a set of .300...if you can get the wheels to ride somewhere other than the normal glue strip down the track, the car will probably like skinnier tires.  Are you planning this for a bracket beast?    


Yes a bracket car for sure and I'm sure going to make it look pretty.

Yes I plan on moving the tires outward just a bit more and narrowing them down.

Ill be happy at 1.5's.
Joseph Migliaccio. Karma it's a wonderful thing.

"Drive it like you're in it!!!"

"If everything feels under control... you are not going fast enough!"

Some people are like Slinkies... they're really good for nothing... but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.





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