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"The Dynamic Challenge" of 2015


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#1 Gator Bob

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 08:12 PM

There has been some chatter about a limited entry Dynamic proxy.

 

I love these so called 'scratchbuilt' cars and bet there are seven more guys on here that do too.

 

From another thread.

 

I'll do this ....

 

Take the plan for the first race to Bill Pinch at The Raceway.biz

 

We could run all in a three track challenge with qualifying. Hillclimb 13.8v, Oval 11v and Drag Strip 14.7v.

1.5 minute per lane on roadcourse and oval. (no-smoke)

Four drivers, 4 cars start and next four come in round robin, driver stays in lane and cars are separated by one so we can 'drift' in the corners and reduce carnage. 

 

I'll enter a car ...

 

 

Eight cars max.

 

All original Dynamic parts including Cast chassis and OEM brass body mounts. 

Any motor configuration that is designed to fit the Dynamic part # used. 

The only thing that can be soldered is the lead wires.

Any body up to 1970

 


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#2 Samiam

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 09:12 PM

I would include Rick's re-pop parts. OEM is getting difficult to find.


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#3 Gator Bob

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 09:29 PM

Absolutely ! 

 

Re-pops encouraged.

 

Thanks for making the body mounts and tongues Rick. :good:


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#4 Gator Bob

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 09:40 PM

That rule would be:

  • OEM and OEM re-pop brass parts.

Add:

  • Plaques for Cars and Drivers, 3 track winners plaques and 1 overall Champion.
  • Overall gets "The Big Prize". 
  • We might consider modern guides and tires
  • or just go for it old school and put Mylar/Foil tape on the guides for the LASER beam timers on the Drag strip.
  • All cars will be judged for eligibility buy the 8 entrants, with 3 pictures minimum and a list of parts used and posted here on Slotblog.

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#5 Jairus

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 08:46 AM

Big question is gears tho Bob.  I have not found a gear that Dynamic made as a crown that worked well.  Sidewinder gears it seems were fine, it's the in-line crowns they continually messed up.
For now lets just hold to Dynamic and let's what everyone comes up with.  We could later allow Cox gears, or dyed pink Parma a last resort.

But that's up to you.  Just my opinion.


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#6 Phil Worthy

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 08:58 AM

I would include Rick's re-pop parts. OEM is getting difficult to find.

Which Rick are we talking about? Bennardo? Thigpen? ...?



#7 Samiam

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 12:44 PM

Which Rick are we talking about? Bennardo? Thigpen? ...?

Sorry,

 

Kind of assumed everyone knew Rick B of R-Geo made some re-pop Dynamic as well as other brand products. Nice stuff.

 

Here you go:http://slotblog.net/...e-vintage-guys/


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#8 Phil Worthy

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 02:19 PM

Sorry,

 

Kind of assumed everyone knew Rick B of R-Geo made some re-pop Dynamic as well as other brand products. Nice stuff.

 

Here you go:http://slotblog.net/...e-vintage-guys/

 

I missed that thread.  :wacko2:  Thanks for the info. :)



#9 Gator Bob

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 03:36 PM

Sorry,

 

Kind of assumed everyone knew Rick B of R-Geo made some re-pop Dynamic as well as other brand products. Nice stuff.

 

Here you go:http://slotblog.net/...e-vintage-guys/

 

Thanks Sam!


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#10 Jaak

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 04:57 PM

I am extremely interested Bob put me down for a spot if still available.


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#11 Gator Bob

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 05:14 PM

Welcome Baak-Jaak :clapping:  :good:

 

Plenty of room so far ... you know the drill, thanks for joinin' the :crazy: ness.

 

 What country will you be shipping from this time. :D


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#12 Jairus

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 05:18 PM

Jaak is now an American!

South American....... :victory:


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#13 Gator Bob

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 05:42 PM

Is that so Mr. J !

Well JaaK you have to learn a new anthem to be in this American Band. :drinks:


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#14 SlotStox#53

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 06:06 PM

Sounds most interesting! :D

So just to clarify, it's an all bolt together/no solder allowed affair? OEM/repop fixed body mounts etc..

Ruling out slider type chassis,or any other scratchy type ingenuity? :laugh2:

Midwest floating brass pans?

Thingie shell?

Any limits on motor?

Edit* just read above and answered pretty much all questions :laugh2:

#15 Phil Worthy

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 07:38 PM

GB,

 

Motor Rule: "Any motor configuration that is designed to fit the Dynamic part # used."  

 

So, it would seem that rewinds are okay?



#16 Gator Bob

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 07:58 PM

Sounds most interesting! :D

So just to clarify, it's an all bolt together/no solder allowed affair? OEM/repop fixed body mounts etc..

Correct! Dynamic or Dynamic copy.
Ruling out slider type chassis,or any other scratchy type ingenuity? :laugh2:

Yes!  Out.
Midwest floating brass pans?

Not allowed. No after market or one off chassis parts.

Thingie shell?

Yes.. any body anybody likes is allowed. :crazy: 

 

NO Wings, !!! 1970 or before on scale bodies,

Thingies, any re-pop or modified mold repop like OneRay's bodies. Classic, Gar-Vic, Shinoda, Chotie,<sp>

Even blister packaging like those F1' practice' bodies two part epoxy came in BITD. :laugh2: 

 

 

   


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#17 Gator Bob

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 08:12 PM

Big question is gears tho Bob.  I have not found a gear that Dynamic made as a crown that worked well.  Sidewinder gears it seems were fine, it's the in-line crowns they continually messed up.
For now lets just hold to Dynamic and let's what everyone comes up with.  We could later allow Cox gears, or dyed pink Parma a last resort.

But that's up to you.  Just my opinion.

 

The Dynamic cast crown gears are ... Dangerous :shok: looking .... the teeth are so sharp you could need stiches.

Actually I've never rushed to try one in 45 years  ^_^ ... look like purple Pinion Eaters.

 

Could they 'work' with modern steel pinions?

At least they came in 48p/44t  :crazy:

 

 - What'da youz guys dink? :big_boss: -............ Dyed Pink is the answer ? :umnik2:


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#18 Phil Worthy

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 08:23 PM

I don't think we want cars with built in problems. Jairus's suggestion of Cox gears is fine. Black Parma if everyone agrees.



#19 Gator Bob

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 08:26 PM

GB,

 

Motor Rule: "Any motor configuration that is designed to fit the Dynamic part # used."  

 

So, it would seem that rewinds are okay?

 

Hey Phil,  Is that the $99,000 question ?.... or are we just getting started for $100.. :laugh2:

 

Committee huddle needed on that one.  


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#20 Jairus

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 09:02 PM

I see no problem with rewinds.  The limitations are the chassis! 

A hot rewind won't make the car better, just harder to drive.

As for soldering.  Dynamic part numbers 403 and 404 (outrigger pans) came with pintube sections that required soldering in.

Long as the parts all come from Dynamic or are re-popped from Dynamic parts.


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#21 Phil Worthy

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 09:13 PM

 

Hey Phil,  Is that the $99,000 question ?.... or are we just getting started for $100.. :laugh2:

 

Committee huddle needed on that one.  

Yeah, I just wanted to make sure it was fine for the cars to have a little "Bang. Zoom...."



#22 Phil Worthy

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 09:22 PM

I see no problem with rewinds.  The limitations are the chassis! 

A hot rewind won't make the car better, just harder to drive.

As for soldering.  Dynamic part numbers 403 and 404 (outrigger pans) came with pintube sections that required soldering in.

Long as the parts all come from Dynamic or are re-popped from Dynamic parts.

Thanks, Jairus. 

 

What are thoughts on using Jet Flags and modern rear rubber? Could help a bit with the limited chassis.



#23 Jairus

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 09:25 PM

Not my Circus Phil.
I don't want to be in charge of the monkeys this time.
But my opinion is that it should be limited to Dynamic parts only.  Rubber is whole'nother thing however because while guides are still out there, rubber does dry up.


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#24 MSwiss

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 09:30 PM

I'm a big Dynamic fan.

Just curious..... is the below front end legal?
http://slotblog.net/...eetah-slot-car/

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#25 SlotStox#53

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 09:35 PM

Looks good to me, that appears to be a brass front end by Dynamic :good:

Looking through the Dynamic stash for suitable bits for a possible build...
Hmmm, padlock? Open frame? Can? Decisions decisions.

#26 Jairus

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 09:36 PM

That's a Dynamic sold part Mike. Part #585.

part585-vi.jpg


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#27 MSwiss

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 09:42 PM

Thanks.

Never saw it before.

Was it a new or older pc.?

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#28 Jairus

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 09:43 PM

Pre 1970 for sure.


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#29 MSwiss

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 09:50 PM

That I know.

I meant was it around early with all the the wild looking padlock chassis pcs, or was it more a Mabuchi era item?

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#30 Jairus

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 09:54 PM

Listed in the 1967 Catalog.  So your guess is as good as mine.
Dynamic didn't get started till 1964 and that is about the same time Mabuchi released the FT16D.
67Cat_p4-vi.jpg


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#31 Gator Bob

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 10:33 PM

The brass front end would be perfectly legal.

 

IMO and after having used that axle carrier on a non-solder car there isn't any performance advantage.

 

The parts I am concerned with are the Wide Pans and Sloppy Sams.

They provide a big oval and road course performance advantage, require soldering and are near unobtainium.

 

I have a set but wouldn't want to run against them if I didn't.

 

If all the entrants have access to a set then I think they would be acceptable, otherwise no.

 

Let's firm these up:

 

  • Modern Graphite guides required. (per track owner)
  • Any gear set.
  • Open armature rule.
  • Can motors - Mabuchi 16, 26 and 36D set-ups only.

Next up:

 

Tires ?

Three choices

  1. Dynamic only
  2. Any
  3. Handout

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#32 Gator Bob

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 10:36 PM

That I know.

I meant was it around early with all the the wild looking padlock chassis pcs, or was it more a Mabuchi era item?

 

I'm not sure of dates Mike but I don't think they were ever a big mover.  

 

"Bend-O-Matic"


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#33 Phil Worthy

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 12:56 AM

// Thanks for your ideas, Bob. A few thoughts and questions...

 

The brass front end would be perfectly legal.

 

IMO and after having used that axle carrier on a non-solder car there isn't any performance advantage.

 

The parts I am concerned with are the Wide Pans and Sloppy Sams.

They provide a big oval and road course performance advantage, require soldering and are near unobtainium.

 

I have a set but wouldn't want to run against them if I didn't.

 

If all the entrants have access to a set then I think they would be acceptable, otherwise no.

 

// Let's ask Rick if he would re-pop the Sloppy Sams (I have already broached the subject with him, but others might inquire also.). Why shouldn't the mounts be stronger and the cars better handling?

 

Let's firm these up:

 

  • Modern Graphite guides required. (per track owner)  // if we have to.
  • Any gear set. // fine.
  • Open armature rule. // yes.
  • Can motors - Mabuchi 16, 26 and 36D set-ups only. // original Mabuchi set-ups only? Meaning, it came in Mabuchi packaging? Up to what year? So you couldn't do something like a Tradeship endbell? Magnet shims allowed?
  •  

Next up:

 

Tires ?

Three choices

  1. Dynamic only   // front tires, sure. Rear tires, no way.  
  2. Any                       // builders could decide based on their car's handling. Isn't this just another choice the builder has to make when setting up a proxy car?
  3. Handout                 // car could be tuned based on given tire. Nevertheless, hard to do without knowing track conditions. "Levels the playing field" a bit more (Is that a desired outcome?). 

// These are just a few thoughts, some probably wrong.  What do others have to add? Please chime in.  //



#34 Gator Bob

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 10:10 AM

Rules creep ... can get out of hand and will take them farther away from stock(ish) builds.

 

IMO .. there was much disparity in performance in the 2011 Dynamic Challenge. Everyone wants an edge... it's racing.

 

I don't care where I finish but don't want to see any "blow everyone away" entries.

 

The 'big prize' isn't that big.... it's for fun. Fast or Slow.


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#35 Rick

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 11:21 AM

Who's going to donate a set of Sloppy Sams for this project? .....


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#36 Jairus

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 11:29 AM

The Sloppy Sams were derived from the standard solid pans Rick.  Same manufacturing... but they clipped the ends and added a hinge tube.

Doesn't matter though because Bob has already decided they are on the black list.

 

But.... if you were to make a set of solid pan "outriggers" (part#403).... the builder could make a set of hinges.

part403-vi.jpg

 

Frankly, this is the very reason I didn't want to be involved.


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#37 Rick

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 11:45 AM

The Sloppy Sams were derived from the standard solid pans Rick.  Same manufacturing... but they clipped the ends and added a hinge tube.

Doesn't matter though because Bob has already decided they are on the black list.

 

But.... if you were to make a set of solid pan "outriggers" (part#403).... the builder could make a set of hinges.

part403-vi.jpg

 

Frankly, this is the very reason I didn't want to be involved.

Look at the price tag! $.79 set. If you used the 10X inflation calculator you would be hard pressed to cover materials, let alone labor on such items today. Not to mention dies and fixtures needed to complete them......

 

Thanks Jairus for the update on the black list, it now becomes moot......


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#38 Gator Bob

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 11:49 AM

Who's going to donate a set of Sloppy Sams for this project? .....

 

Thanks for stepping up with the offer to make these.

 

Doesn't matter though because Bob has already decided they are on the black list.

 

But.... if you were to make a set of solid pan "outriggers" (part#403).... the builder could make a set of hinges.

 

 

Frankly, this is the very reason I didn't want to be involved.

 

I put them on the 'gray' list.

If all the entrants have access to a set then I think they would be acceptable, otherwise no.

 

Jairus, please explain.

Frankly, this is the very reason I didn't want to be involved.


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#39 Jairus

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 12:15 PM

Bob, any proxy should be fun.

To add lots of limitations expecting all the cars to be equal is pissing in the wind.

I simply suggested that the chassis be built from only Dynamic bolt together parts in the order they were designed to be. That includes Dynamic bodies and wheels.  Pretty much like I built my Ferrari 330 P3 in another thread that inspired you.
Now you suggest including graphic guides and any gears.  That makes no sense.

There are tons of Dynamic guides and gears out there for reasonable prices and most of the members already have one if they know what to look for.
The point of a proxy is to inspire the mind to search out, build and learn!  Not just race.

When I started the first Dynamic Proxy back in 2011 the first thing I did is start researching and posting ideas, parts and links to items on ebay.  Not making rules to eliminate parts just because I didn't have them.


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#40 Gator Bob

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 12:46 PM

I started with all Dynamic. I'm changing things because that is what I'm hearing you guys want.

 

  • The modern guides are to avoid timing and scoring issues.
  • The gears because you said the Dynamic gears aren't too good ... and they look like they do suck but I'll be glad to run them. Also Ram, Pittman and Strombecker have the gears/axles built in, They could be changed to Dynamic but is that practical?
  • I have the pans .. not making the rules based on parts I have. The pan rule is for those that don't have them. Maybe I worded it wrong in above posts.
  • The no solder rule. We've heard it, I've heard it "If 'he' can add pin tubes solder in, why can't we"

Personal preference - I still like All Dynamic except guides and bodies. Yup, purple, green or GE motors.... Factory Stock. As near to an RTR as possible.


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#41 proptop

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Posted 18 June 2015 - 12:01 AM

I might be interested too..."if"...(ain't there always an "if"? :laugh2: )

 

JMO...

Keep chassis construction to ANY and ONLY parts as listed in the Dynamic catalog...no limitations...but must be of Dynamic (or also AMT when it comes to motors?) origin...

 

Modern guide flag is a good idea IMO when it comes to timing and scoring...and especially when the track owner recommends it.

 

Any period correct gears...1960's vintage...any manuf. (most people just used whatever worked...didn't matter who made them...) just trying to be practical here, because most of us can get their hands on some Cox gears w/o difficulty.

 

 

Since the track owner should know what rubber works best on his track...provide a spec rear tire...just give us the diameter...like perhaps 13/16 or 7/8?

 

FWIW...I think some soldering should be allowed...mainly just to try and keep parts from maybe falling off...?:) Not talking about adding scratch built chassis components or construction, but allowing some reinforcements to be soldered...but the reinforcment components must be Dynamic pieces.


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#42 Lone Wolf

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Posted 18 June 2015 - 08:16 AM

I have many Dynamic parts here. Good "loose" and packaged parts at good prices if any body needs something. No pans but mostly everything else. Let me know what you need. 


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#43 hiline2

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Posted 18 June 2015 - 11:03 AM

"IF" I get my stuff from my secret source, Ill be in too ! a Big fat GS Vette, kemtron powered riding on Dynamic Big slicks!!


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#44 slotbaker

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Posted 18 June 2015 - 05:45 PM

  • Open armature rule.
  • Can motors - Mabuchi 16, 26 and 36D set-ups only.

Looks like only can motors for this one Paul.

:huh:


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#45 Gator Bob

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Posted 18 June 2015 - 06:15 PM

From a rules standpoint I stand by everything hi-lighted in red below.

 

Tires ...

Spec size (TBD), any compound.

 

 

 

 

There has been some chatter about a limited entry Dynamic proxy.

 

I love these so called 'scratchbuilt' cars and bet there are seven more guys on here that do too.

 

From another thread.

 

 

We could run all in a three track challenge with qualifying. Hillclimb 13.8v, Oval 11v and Drag Strip 14.7v.

1.5 minute per lane on roadcourse and oval. (no-smoke)

Four drivers, 4 cars start and next four come in round robin, driver stays in lane and cars are separated by one so we can 'drift' in the corners and reduce carnage. 

 

I'll enter a car ...

 

 

Eight cars max.

 

All original Dynamic parts including Cast chassis and OEM brass body mounts. 

Any motor configuration that is designed to fit the Dynamic part # used. 

The only thing that can be soldered is the lead wires.

Any body up to 1970

 

Absolutely ! 

 

Re-pops encouraged.

 

Thanks for making the body mounts and tongues Rick. :good:

 

 

 

That rule would be:

  • OEM and OEM re-pop brass parts.

Add:

  • Plaques for Cars and Drivers, 3 track winners plaques and 1 overall Champion.
  • Overall gets "The Big Prize". 
  • We might consider modern guides and tires
  • or just go for it old school and put Mylar/Foil tape on the guides for the LASER beam timers on the Drag strip.
  • All cars will be judged for eligibility buy the 8 entrants, with 3 pictures minimum and a list of parts used and posted here on Slotblog.

 

 

 

Listed in the 1967 Catalog.  So your guess is as good as mine.
Dynamic didn't get started till 1964 and that is about the same time Mabuchi released the FT16D.

 

 

The legal parts are in the Dynamic catalog.

 

67Cat_p4-vi.jpg

 

 

 

The brass front end would be perfectly legal.

 

IMO and after having used that axle carrier on a non-solder car there isn't any performance advantage.

 

The parts I am concerned with are the Wide Pans and Sloppy Sams.

They provide a big oval and road course performance advantage, require soldering and are near unobtainium.

 

I have a set but wouldn't want to run against them if I didn't.

 

If all the entrants have access to a set then I think they would be acceptable, otherwise no.

 

Let's firm these up:

 

  • Modern Graphite guides required. (per track owner)
  • Any gear set. ------------------ --->"period only, 1970 or before"
  • Open armature rule.
  • Can motors - Mabuchi 16, 26 and 36D set-ups only.

Next up:

 

Tires ?

Three choices

  1. Dynamic only
  2. Any
  3. Handout

 

 

 

 

Thanks for stepping up with the offer to make these.

 

 

I put them on the 'gray' list.

If all the entrants have access to a set then I think they would be acceptable, otherwise no.

 

Jairus, please explain.

Frankly, this is the very reason I didn't want to be involved.

 

 

I started with all Dynamic. I'm changing things because that is what I'm hearing you guys want.

 

  • The modern guides are to avoid timing and scoring issues.
  • The gears because you said the Dynamic gears aren't too good ... and they look like they do suck but I'll be glad to run them. Also Ram, Pittman and Strombecker have the gears/axles built in, They could be changed to Dynamic but is that practical?
  • I have the pans .. not making the rules based on parts I have. The pan rule is for those that don't have them. Maybe I worded it wrong in above posts.
  • The no solder rule. We've heard it, I've heard it "If 'he' can add pin tubes solder in, why can't we"

Personal preference - I still like All Dynamic except guides and bodies. Yup, purple, green or GE motors.... Factory Stock. As near to an RTR as possible.

 

 

Looks like only can motors for this one Paul.

:huh:

 

Steve .. see above on motors allowed. Any motor that Dynamic has a mount part # for and is a direct bolt in.


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#46 slotbaker

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Posted 18 June 2015 - 07:12 PM

OK, cool.

I missed that, sorry.

:(


Steve King


#47 Gator Bob

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Posted 18 June 2015 - 08:35 PM

Steve, Easy to miss, the whole thing is a bit untidy,

 

I'll clean this work in progress all up if we can get eight guys together.  


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#48 Jaak

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Posted 19 June 2015 - 04:39 PM

Welcome Baak-Jaak :clapping:  :good:

 

Plenty of room so far ... you know the drill, thanks for joinin' the :crazy: ness.

 

 What country will you be shipping from this time. :D


Thanks Bob!


I will be shipping from Brazil this time  :sun_bespectacled: 

Will be reading all the rest of the rules this weekend... gots to go to my sons school party first  ^_^ 

Glad to be back on the interweb with a proper desktop again (no little fiddly phone screen which is not compatible with my sausage fingers :crazy: )


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#49 Gator Bob

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Posted 19 June 2015 - 06:52 PM

What do you think of these tires?

 

ProTrack 'Jaildoor' #515, 517 and 519.

 

Too tall?

http://protrackcorp....onastockers.htm


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#50 Don Weaver

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Posted 19 June 2015 - 07:26 PM

Definitely the correct size for the Rod and Custom races which were held in 1966, the heyday of Dynamic cast chassis'.

 

Don


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