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Two questions regarding Retro


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#1 Dennis David

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 12:55 PM

  • What is the time period that Retro is trying to represent?
  • During this period was steel wire used in chassis building and specifically as a torsion device?
  • Were bent brackets used as axle carriers or for body mounting? (Yeah I know this is the third question)
Pictures would be great.

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#2 MSwiss

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 01:10 PM

It's not about recreating any era.

Just the spirit of soldering together/"making" the chassis.
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Mike Swiss
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#3 Dennis David

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 01:12 PM

I think that's what it's turned into, not sure if that was the original intent. In either case I think it has done a lot for the hobby.


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#4 MSwiss

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 01:16 PM

We were never afraid to take advantage of modern technology.

We always allowed "sealed" motors, modern rubber, modern gears, etc.

I think you, like others, think it was suppose to be vintage racing.

"How come you guys don't use Cox thumb controller's ?"

A totally different thing.

Anyway, here you go:

http://irraslotracing.com/

Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
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#5 Dennis David

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 01:18 PM

Probably. Working on my history of slot cars and wanted to get some insight.


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#6 Tex

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 01:28 PM

I think that's what it's turned into, not sure if that was the original intent. In either case I think it has done a lot for the hobby.

 

I'm pretty sure that was the original intent. Ask PdL, Warmack, Steube on the Left Coast.


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#7 tonyp

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 01:32 PM

The intent of Retro, like Mike said, was to create a class of racing where the art of scratchbuilding could once again be practiced. Inlines were chosen as they were felt to be easier to build. Bodies were chosen to have a cut-off date just before they got built-in wings and still looked like the car they were modeled after.  

It was a fun Sunday morning class for a couple of old racers at BPR that grew into the monster it now is.
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#8 Cheater

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 02:00 PM

Dennis,

The original idea of Retro was to return to scratchbuilding and to get away from the building of ever more powerful motors in chasing lower lap times.

In the past I termed it a "paradigm flip", going from standardized chassis and custom motors to custom chassis and standardized motors.

IRRA® Retro does not replicate any particular era of 1/24 slot racing. It is a new genre that incorporates some elements from the past but which is not a recreation of what was done in the past.


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#9 JimF

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 05:03 PM

I think that Dennis knows what vintage is.
 
I think Jail Door was intended to recreate an era. I think that current retro allows creative advancement while still adhering (even if rather loosely) to the more general principles of that era. Yes there is modern technology involved in tires, gears and the current sealed motor concept. However, there is also a rather vague line in the sand regarding chassis technology (ie: spring steel center sections, multi direction hinges, centerline hinges... etc.) and I think that does recognize a particular era even if it is general and not specific.
 
Certainly the cutoff dates for bodies and so far, the (mostly) resistance to "faster motors is more better gooder" idea clearly still respects to an extent, the original concept as created by PdL, Sterret, Steube, and others. While it's true that Retro doesn't "replicate" a specific era, it's also true that it does respect and pay at least some left-handed homage to that era that Jail Door more accurately recreates.

 

Edit for the record... I've been informed that PdL was actually not one of the founding fathers. Rather, I suspect... the first speaker of the house.


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#10 Keith Tanaka

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 07:04 PM

Retro racing as we know it today was started in April 2006 (actually earlier than April as it took several months for enough racers to build cars for this new racing class at the time) at Buena Park Raceway in Southern California. 
 
Paul Sterrett had unsuccessfully tried for many years prior to 2006 to get racers at BPR interested in a scratchbuilding racing class. No one was interested.
 
Along comes Mike Steube who had been reintroduced to slot car racing by PdL prior to 2006 with TSRF racing at BPR. 
Paul talked to Mike and PdL about his idea of having a scratchbuilding racing class, but only Mike was interested initially.
 
Paul and Mike agreed to create a scratchbuilding racing class similar to what was built/raced in the 1966-1968 timeframe (golden years of slot car racing).
They co-founded SoCal D3 racing which originally was granted a racing category (D3) within USRA by Chris Radisich who was a USRA National officer at the time. It didn't take long for a few very vocal racers to protest being associated with USRA in anyway, so D3 never raced under the USRA banner.
 
As D3 started, Paul, Mike, PdL along with help from Dennis Samson, created the original D3 racing rules. 
As PdL posted D3 race results online, the Steube name caught the attention of some famous East Coast racers (John Gorski, Tony P., Noose) who quickly joined D3 forming a racing group on the East Coast (which eventually became part of IRRA®).
 
A number of situations occurred back in the pre and early days of D3 racing at BPR which eventually resulted in Retro racing as we know it today.
 
The original concept of D3 was to have a scratchbuilding/racing program at BPR. D3 racing groups did form in other parts of the country as well as a few foreign countries. IRRA® took the next step by actively promoting Retro racing across the nation and wherever there was interest. SCRRA replaced D3 several years ago at BPR.
 
The above is my brief recollection of how retro racing started at BPR with D3 and some of the events that occurred later resulting in what we have today, Retro racing.
 
Keith


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#11 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 07:33 PM

Thanks for the histor,y Keith.


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#12 Dennis David

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 08:11 PM

Absolutely thanks, guys. When did the split with D3 Hardbody occur?

And JimF is correct, every morning I'm reminded of what vintage is.


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#13 Matt Sheldon

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 08:57 PM

Good thread. I think people often confuse the words "vintage" and "Retro".


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#14 Keith Tanaka

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 08:57 PM

Absolutely thanks guys. When did the split with D3 hardbody occur?


D3 Hardbody racing has been going on since December 2008, long before D3 Retro racing was replaced by SCRRA in spring 2012. 

The first Talladega Nights NASCAR hardbody race was held August 2007 at BPR. This Hardbody race with rewound 36Ds predated the start of D3 Hardbody racing in Dec 2008.
 
Keith
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#15 idare2bdul

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 12:48 AM

There was a difference of opinion in the original rulesmaking group. Myself and Dennis Hill saw the potential to stray dramatically from the building practices of the '60s especially with no weight limit on the cars. We also thought that 16D motors would be more period correct. Dennis and I thought that American 16D arms would produce power similar to a good vintage rewind. The majority of the members there thought the new sealed motors would be tamperproof and with lighter weight. Most racing organizations change rules from time to time and there have actually been relatively few rules changes to Can-Am, Formula chassis have seen some changes, and RetroPro has seen some. Some of the changes came when new designs were introduced and then banned while other rules were eased to allow more diversity or possibly because of a shortage of supply of available parts.

 

While I have not agreed with the various rules at times the reality is that most people show up, get to race a full main event with cars and drivers similar in speed to themselves, and I see smiles on the faces of the guys in the D Main as big as those of the podium in the A Main.

 

All that aside I'm really glad we race flexi type cars out here. I just hate being a chassis builder, but I do miss RetoPro. Too bad you don't race that on the flat track anymore.

 

Final trivia: Some of those at the founding of California's Retro racing were thinking,"What would Mike Morrisey be building now?" We eventually found out he would be doing what I was doing, flying electric R/C airplanes.


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#16 slotbaker

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 02:03 AM

First D3 Retro Race, May 27, 2006

 

I followed the evolution of D3 with great interest, and I believe three of the fundamental factors of D3 were:

 

- Scratchbuilt chassis to emulate pro slot cars of the 1960's, prior to the inception and wide use of anglewinders;

- Make it affordable by utilizing a readily-available, sealed motor of suitable performance;

- Use Can-Am bodies of the era up to 1969.

 

Nesta (aka 68Caddy) did a great interview with Paul Sterret about the inception of D3, but unfortunately the video has been taken down.
Maybe Nesta could be persuaded to activate it again, as it is very interesting.
 
When we got Retro racing happening down here, we created a website and I posted this as part of the D3 heritage:
 
"In late 2005 and early 2006 Paul Sterrett devised the D3 concept, and Mike Steube helped get things rolling along by building several cars, then using them at Buena Park Raceway to introduce racers to the class. Interest gathered and eventually there were enough people to hold a race."
 
:)

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#17 tonyp

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 07:30 AM

What I like about Retro is the more relaxed atmosphere and friendship which was missing when I was serious pro racing. Once you tech your car in there is plenty of time for bench racing which is the best part.

 

Back in the day I would never loan a car out to someone who could beat me nor offer any help on getting competitors up to speed. It was war at every race.

 

You still want to beat the brains out of your competitors once the race starts but unlike the old days you are friends as soon as the power goes off.


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#18 John Streisguth

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 09:38 AM

In other words... it's fun! :D


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#19 Dennis David

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 10:37 AM

It does seem to have that vibe and even though some people still complain about the cheap sealed motors that seems to have been an important piece of the puzzle.


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#20 tonyp

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 01:03 PM

A very important part.

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
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#21 MSwiss

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 01:13 PM

Some people are born to complain.
 
Raceways could hire blonde supermodels as marshals, and eventually one guy would go "What, no redheads?"
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#22 slotcarone

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 01:20 PM

Another important piece of the puzzle that we do in Retro East is have everyone racing with their peers. Everyone wins this way!

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#23 JimF

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 02:22 PM

Some people are born to complain.
 
Raceways could hire blonde supermodels as marshals, and eventually one guy would go "What, no redheads?"

 
Boy howdy! We have one guy... nice guy... pretty good racer... some days real good, who lobbied for the RH well before we decided to adopt it. His rationale was they are "better and faster". Eventually, we approved the RH (although for different reasons).

 

Last time I saw him, he lobbied me to adopt the H7.... why?... "They are better and faster"...   :scratch_one-s_head:


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#24 Half Fast

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 02:25 PM

Yeah what Mike "Krazy" Katz (lil angel*) says! You can have a blast racing even in a G Main since everyone around you is about the same speed.

 

Cheers,

 

* Todays obscure reference


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#25 Phil Worthy

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 02:39 PM

These "need for speed" guys should be encouraged to promote and race RetroPro or Can-Am Plus.
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