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Two questions regarding Retro


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#26 usadar

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 05:39 PM

What I like about Retro is the more relaxed atmosphere and friendship which was missing when I was serious pro racing. Once you tech your car in there is plenty of time for bench racing which is the best part.

Back in the day I would never loan a car out to someone who could beat me nor offer any help on getting competitors up to speed. It was war at every race.

You still want to beat the brains out of your competitors once the race starts but unlike the old days you are friends as soon as the power goes off.

  

In other words... it's fun! :D


What I have been trying to realize in Tokyo since I was introduced to Retro by Keith Tanaka in 2010 is well said by Tony and John above.

Good Retro Racing!!

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#27 Samiam

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 05:47 PM

It does seem to have that vibe and even though some people still complain about the cheap sealed motors that seems to have been an important piece of the puzzle.


Still better then when we were complaining about the expensive sealed motors. :wacko2:
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#28 Phil Hackett

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 09:59 AM

So, if there is not a target period of time for chassis construction design, why are there rules against pan and plumber hinges and the requirement of a solid front axle even if they are hand built? Seems like the limitation IS year 1969...
 
If I were to come up with a inline, no pivot, and solid axle version of a RevTech "Iso" chassis (which it wouldn't be an Iso chassis with no pivots), you guys would be OK with that? I'm taking bets.
 
BTW, I was talking to JP Geddes recently and he still has the mountain of magazines, newspapers, and Grundy Gazettes from the late '60s into the '70s... and yes, hardware from that period, too. I'm gonna do some research on some things soon... I'll report back with pictures and analysis...
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#29 MSwiss

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 10:42 AM

Stop it, Phil.

Rules aren't going to be changed based on magazine pictures.

Retro is about racing soldered together chassis.

Not replicating an exact era.

That was tried with Jail Door, which is still run out East, but of course, isn't, and never was, not nearly as popular.

Mike Swiss
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#30 John Streisguth

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 10:47 AM

We rarely run the Jail Doors lately because of time constraints.  When your race day start a 8 AM and finishes around 10 PM (NOT including two-three hours driving each way...), nobody really wants to spend another two hours racing a third class.
"Whatever..."

#31 Phil Hackett

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 01:57 PM

Okaaaaaay… I'll stop it… but I'm still going to bring up interesting stuff I see… Raymond Hoy's and Mike Morrisey's newspapers reporting the races and personalities of the time should be of interest to the slot car community.

 

BTW… I should point out that I'm not trying to get rules changed. This is your guys' gig and it looks like it is working fine.

 

My "problem" is that even if I, or anyone else, were to get too inventive within the rules, which the big #1 rule is the chassis must the scratch built, is that it would be summarily be banned, even though the chassis were hand cut, bent and soldered together. Even if there was a historical precedent for such construction.

 

So there… that is the last comment I have about this topic in this thread.

 

I have stopped.


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#32 MSwiss

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 02:41 PM

It's not about recreating any era.
Just the spirit of soldering together/"making" the chassis.

 

Phil,

 

Above is my post #2.

That explains why we took the time to make new rules vs just reprinting the April, '68 issue of Model Car Science.

PS: And thank God you bracketed problem with quotation marks.


Mike Swiss
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#33 John Streisguth

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 03:04 PM

It wouldn't be the first time something was banned after it was decided it pushed the envelope too much. Around here it's usually refered to as a "Matt Bruce rule", because he's always thinking outside the box. Sometimes it's OK, sometimes not, but you can't fault someone for coming up with a new twist that brings a grey area into black and (or) white.  :)
 
IIRC, Tony P even banned something he came up with himself.  :D
"Whatever..."

#34 MSwiss

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 03:09 PM

Rules got changed/firmed up, when Tony, and possibly Gorski, started adding thin, lead tape, to the bottom on their chassis.

Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
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Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
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#35 Jay Guard

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 03:18 PM

Hey, don't forget my phosphor-bronze chassis; that got banned pronto!


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#36 Cheater

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 03:19 PM

So, if there is not a target period of time for chassis construction design, why are there rules against pan and plumber hinges and the requirement of a solid front axle even if they are hand built?


Speaking as only one of the people who toiled for about six months crafting the IRRA® rules, we wanted to limit the complexity of chassis designs so as to make building chassis today more accessible to racers who hadn't done it in the past. We wanted to try to limit the time required to build a legal chassis. Had we written a rule set that allowed a chassis to be as complex as, say, a Lee Gilbert mid-'70s anglewinder, there are a lot of racers who would not have been attracted to Retro IMO.

As I am found of saying, slot racing is a leisure-time activity and participants only have so much time and money to devote to such endeavors. Of the two elements, time is the more important factor. I can make more money but I can't make more time.
 

My "problem" is that even if I, or anyone else, were to get too inventive within the rules, which the big #1 rule is the chassis must the scratch built, is that it would be summarily be banned, even though the chassis were hand cut, bent and soldered together. Even if there was a historical precedent for such construction.


Not sure how you could get too inventive "within the rules", but I for one applaud anyone who innovates within the "envelope" defined by the IRRA® rules. If an innovation is so successful that it obsoletes everyone else's chassis, then the rules will probably be tweaked to close that loophole.

BTW, as far as I know, the IRRA® rules are the first comprehensive rules for restricted scratchbuilt chassis in history of the 1/24 hobby. Am I wrong about this claim?

And those who think it was easy and/or trivial writing them need to think again.


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#37 tonyp

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 03:38 PM

Amen...


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#38 Dennis David

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 04:02 PM

I think you guys have done well.
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#39 Samiam

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 04:24 PM

OK, so the dead horse is being kicked around again. I think this is the fourth or fifth time I've seen this discussed to the same result.
 
So here it is again:
 

IRRA® Mission Statement
 
The purpose of this organization is:
  • to promote a return to the spirit of slot car racing fun from the ‘60s, using scratchbuilt slot cars
  • to define slot cars that reflect the appearance of actual racing cars from the above time period
  • to provide a unified set of rules for regional, national, and international competition, and
  • to create a rules structure that is cost-effective for the racer as well as the raceways.

These rules were developed after a careful review of all regional Retro style rule sets, in a process begun at the first national Retro race held in Chicago in 2007.

 

Based upon the success of that event, a group of racers representing various regions agreed that a unified set of rules for major events could be established to ensure that all cars currently running under regional rules would be legal to run in national or international events with little, if any, modification. The primary goal was inclusiveness. Regions running Retro series are encouraged to adopt these rules for their regional events.

 

Though the result of careful consideration by a body of experienced slot racing participants, these rules will undergo revision if required and therefore may evolve over time. However, the intent of this organization is to revise these rules only when doing so is clearly necessary and beneficial for all parties concerned.

 

Nowhere is there any reference to being "period correct" or "vintage correct".
 
If anyone wants to race vintage there are tons of old cars out there. Just come up with a set of rules and don't forget to trademark your organization's name.


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#40 MSwiss

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 05:38 PM

Sam,

 

Thanks for posting that.

But still, in 3, 6, or 9 months, we'll get our obligatory "Why can't I run my Checkpoint 24?" or "How come you don't make the racers wear Nehru jackets?" posts.


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Mike Swiss
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#41 Dennis David

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 06:11 PM

Maybe I'll ask it every month since it seems to be such a sensitive topic with some people. LOL.


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#42 MSwiss

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 06:35 PM

Would have you preferred we just ignore you?

If any of the answers sound snippy, it's just because it's a broken record style question.


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Mike Swiss
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Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516


#43 Samiam

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 06:35 PM

"How come you don't make the racers wear Nehru jackets?" :unknw:

 

I have a pair of bell bottom pants but they seem to have shrunk over time.


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#44 Duffy

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 06:39 PM

Back when I was a serious bicyclist, I was thumbing through the latest Bicycle slick and remarked to my friend the shop owner how I was seeing repeats of articles - same content, diff'nt author &c. "That's the 'Turnover Factor' at work," he said. "The basic information you need to ride well can be expressed in nine months' worth of magazines, so you rotate that info to keep the latest crop of noobies informed."

 

There may be a similar thing at work here. sure, we've seen it before, we who got nothing better to do than check in here three-eight times a day.

 

- And there's the added influence of guys who just want their own pet hobbyhorse in the paddock. "It makes perfect sense to MEEE, why CAN'T we get $220 and a complementary hotel when we pass Go? It'd make the game soooo much more interesting - " Well, because that's the way the rules were written. And, yah, some of those arguments have shaken the original intent into two, three groups, and just by my empirical observation those groups have resulted in a net gain in participation. (Fact-check me here?)

 

I don't have a prollem with redundant threads. Like a former member loved to say, it makes things "interesting" - if not to me (and, yup, reeely not to me!), then someone. It don't hurt things, long's it don't get hurtful.


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#45 Half Fast

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 07:18 PM

I had a powder blue polyester Nehru jacket, that I wore (once!).

 

Kumbaya,


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#46 Cheater

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 07:23 PM

We all did stuff we shouldn't have done back then, Bill...


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#47 bbr

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 08:12 PM

d8647b93547b3360d3f77758c7b3efa7.jpg

 

kind of cool... I want one


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#48 MSwiss

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 09:02 PM

Mike,
Check your local Retro org for legality.

For maybe, don't.

I'm sure Bryan will let you wear it once. LMAO

Mike Swiss
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Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
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#49 Dennis David

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 09:15 PM

I would have preferred a simple answer which is what I got initially. Anything after that was not my doing.

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#50 Cheater

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 09:18 PM

We're not saying it's your fault, we're just saying we blame you. Got it? LOL...
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Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap






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