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Quality control - a thing of the past?


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#1 Pablo

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 05:54 PM

Or is it just me ? I seem to be having problems I've never noticed before. Mislabeled paints, flag washers that don't fit, body clips that break, etc.

The discussion we were having on my "Mine Cucaracha" thread was drifting so far in this direction, I decided to move all those posts here.

 

Eddie Fleming asked if Model Masters acrylic paints adhere well to slot car bodies.

I've been using Model Master, Faskolors, and Pactra acrylics for at least a decade.  It all works fine.

They are all proven products.  Don't let the word "model" in "Model Master" confuse you, Eddie.

Acrylic paints adhere well to all types of slot car bodies.

 

I'm sure Faskolors works great up north, but in the Mississippi heat and humidity it's too thick.

Parma Steve Koepp sure doesn't have this problem, but he's using fresh paint - mine's been sitting here for a long time.

My Model Master and Pactra acrylics have also been here a long time, but haven't thickened.

 

When I get serious, I'll go to my lacquers. But opening a window or going outside to spray isn't a fun option here in July.

 

Where you run into trouble is using lacquers on non-Lexan bodies. :o :bad:


Paul Wolcott





#2 Bill from NH

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 07:58 PM

I'll add a couple thoughts.

 

1.0) Too much water in acrylic paint  is not a good thing.

 

1.1) Oiless compressors, which many of us own, probably won't have oil contamination in it's output. Some of the ones that do use compressor oil will have separate moisture & oil traps.


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#3 Bill from NH

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 11:18 PM

Acrylic paints adhere well to all types of slot car bodies.

 

Most do, but some don't. To be on the safe side, do a 'scratch test before airbrushing. Joann Acrylic Paint at Jo-Ann Fabrics is one that doesn't.

 


Bill Fernald
 
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#4 Pablo

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 08:34 AM

Thanks, Bill  :)

My new Iwata Neo is working fine for me, it's a good brush for a low price.

The Neo is not made in Japan by Iwata. Parts made in Taiwan, assembled in China, sold by Iwata of Japan.

That's why, when you look at their website, http://www.iwata-medea.com/ , it says "Neo for Iwata", not "Neo by Iwata"

 

Another tip I have is You Tube videos - this is the guy you want to watch right here:

https://www.youtube....VJvYhLiQVjq4e8Q

 

The problem for all 3 of us right now (you, me, and John Clow) is thick Faskolors that, for some reason, isn't accepting Windex or Future or water as thinner. :dash2:

The one thing we have in common is, hot humid climates, and I'll bet none of us is using fresh product.

 

Me, I'm going to order some Testors acrylics from PCH. :dance3:


Paul Wolcott


#5 SlotStox#53

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 10:19 AM

Thanks for the link & info Pablo :good:

Certainly seems the hot humid climate be messing around !

Will look at getting the Neo and some of that Testors acrylic stuff :) Then plenty of cheap bodies to practice on ..

#6 Bill from NH

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 11:50 AM

The use of less than fresh paint will cause more problems than any hot humid weather or cold dry air. Much of my acrylics are five or more years old (bought before the local raceway closed). I won't airbrush it, but it's still good for brush painting details. In your parts of the country, I'd check out Dixie Art & Airbrush Supply in New Orleans for paint. They do have a website.


Bill Fernald
 
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#7 Pablo

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 12:10 PM

Thanks Bill, but think I'd rather have PCH deliver it :laugh2:  Keep slot car money in slot car circles, ya know


Paul Wolcott


#8 Bill from NH

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 03:27 PM

Okay, NO is practically in your backyard. :)   Dixie carries at least three brands of paint that sticks to lexan, like glue. Createx, Auto Air, & Golden. They also sell Iwata airbrushes & parts, including those for the Neo. 


Bill Fernald
 
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#9 Pablo

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 07:03 AM

I'll let you know how well the Testors sprays.


Paul Wolcott


#10 Bill from NH

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 07:33 AM

What Testors paint are you getting? I airbrushed Testors Acryl 10-12 years ago & it worked well on lexan bodies. Now I see they have both Acryl & acrylic paints, but I don't know the difference.


Bill Fernald
 
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#11 Pablo

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 09:20 AM

PCH:

Testors Acrylic Red - 1/4 oz Bottle - Water Based - TS-1313

 

When you see "Acryl" I think the word processor just ran out of wraparound space  :laugh2: 


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#12 Pablo

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Posted 08 July 2015 - 09:54 AM

I lost Bill's post in the transition from the other thread that answered that question - Model Master paint bottles are labeled "Acryl".

Here is his quote:

"Acryl"  is a name used by Testors on their acrylic paint labels. When Testors first came out with acrylics, it was used on all jars. Now, some jars seem to be called acryl, others called acrylic. Is this the same paint or a different formulation?  To further complicate the situation, Model Master, another RPM International company, labels all acrylics "ACRYL" with plenty of label space to spell out 'acrylic' if they so wanted to do."
 

What I want to know now, are the following:

 

-why is Model Master acrylic "Fluorescent Red" 4703 actually "Fluorescent Orange" ?

 

-why is Faskolor Fluorescent Flaming Orange actually tangerine color when backed with white ?

 

-why does Parma make flag spacers that don't fit their own flags (The Blade) (they fit the white flags but not the black ones) ?

 

-why all of a sudden are 2" body clips that fit the JK Indy cars snapping when bent one time ? I just tested a piece of .032 piano wire and it took 8 bends before it snapped.


Paul Wolcott


#13 MSwiss

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Posted 08 July 2015 - 10:20 AM

Just curious why you are bending the clips?

Mike Swiss
 
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
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Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
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#14 Arne Saknussem

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Posted 08 July 2015 - 10:24 AM

The problem for all 3 of us right now (you, me, and John Clow) is thick Faskolors that, for some reason, isn't accepting Windex or Future or water as thinner. :dash2:

 

As far as Faskolor goes, most of my bottles are 4 years old and getting a little thick.  409 was recommended to me and I have to say that it works really well in my cheapo Badger. 


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#15 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 08 July 2015 - 10:57 AM

Kelly Bodies - The PETG ones - HATE lacquer paint...


Charlie McCullough

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#16 Pablo

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Posted 08 July 2015 - 12:07 PM

Just curious why you are bending the clips?

 

Mike, none of your scale racers do this ?  A simple tweak changes them from a rental car part, into a racing part.

(the one in this photo is a good one - the new bad ones are shiny)

 

IMG_4087.JPG

 

When the forward tips are angled inwards at the correct angle, it makes removing and replacing a body a snap, compared to pins.

When you shake as much as I do, you need all the help you can get :laugh2:

I'm a fanatic - I even sharpen my tip ends a little. Then they get taped to the body. 

When done like this, they never fail, and I've never lost a body clip on the floor :D

A good clip man will always beat a pin man in the pits.

 

I learned a great new tip from Scott at PCH.  If there are no reviews on a product you are considering, go to Amazon and look at their reviews.

Note: if you use this tip, please buy from a slot car source.

I was curious about this product:  Testors Universal Acrylic Thinner - TS-50496

Every single review was excellent - they say a small amount brings old acrylics back to life so they can be airbrushed again.

I have a bottle en-route from PCH. Maybe there is hope for my thick old Faskolors after all...... :dance3:


Paul Wolcott


#17 MSwiss

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Posted 08 July 2015 - 12:45 PM

They really broke , bending them 10 or 15 additional degrees, once ?


Mike Swiss
 
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559


#18 John Streisguth

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Posted 08 July 2015 - 01:00 PM

You may want to try some of the Createx thinners with the Faskolor.  I can't see where putting ammonia into paint is a good idea....but that's just me (and yes, I have tried it, and I didn;t think the results were very good).

Another tip (which I have posted before): if you use regular Createx paints, they are meant to be heat set on fabric, so using a hair dryer to dry them actually improves the toughness.  My bodies crack and tear before they give up paint.


"Whatever..."

#19 Pablo

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Posted 08 July 2015 - 01:35 PM

Mike, I bend them about 30 degrees from stock (parallel to the middle part).

At the exact point I want it, you can hear and feel it go "crack" and it breaks partially.

Try bending it again, either less, or more, and it snaps clean off.

 

Since I always take my small parts out of the bags I'm not sure what brand these are but they fit the JK Indy chassis, 2" hole spacing.

They are either JK 9010, or Parma 738.

 

IMG_5965.JPG


Paul Wolcott


#20 Noose

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Posted 08 July 2015 - 01:44 PM

I have painted PETG with lacquers and not had them be destroyed.  Heck I have even used lacquer over the Faskolor / Createx paints.  Not so much what you do but how you do it.  A well cleaned body free of fingerprint oils etc. is a good start.  Use rubbing alcohol.  Use it again after you do your taping.  Then the operative word is LIGHT coats.  And yes, use that hair dryer even with lacquers.  Speeds up drying. 

 

Now I also thin all my lacquers with acetone.  Helps adhesion a lot more.


Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
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#21 Pablo

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Posted 08 July 2015 - 01:52 PM

Joe, you use 70% or 91% isopropyl alcohol ?


Paul Wolcott


#22 MSwiss

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Posted 08 July 2015 - 01:54 PM

Mike, I bend them about 30 degrees from stock (parallel to the middle part).
At the exact point I want it, you can hear and feel it go "crack" and it breaks partially.
Try bending it again, either less, or more, and it snaps clean off.
 
Since I always take my small parts out of the bags I'm not sure what brand these are but they fit the JK Indy chassis, 2" hole spacing.
They are either JK 9010, or Parma 738.
 
attachicon.gifIMG_5965.JPG

Obviously, it's a more brittle material.

But don't expect Jerry to QC it, to check if it will do something he doesn't claim it does.

IOW, he sells "body clips", not "tweakable to Pablo's spec, body clips".
  • Pablo likes this

Mike Swiss
 
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559


#23 Pablo

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Posted 08 July 2015 - 02:04 PM

Point taken :) but are you sure these are JK, not Parma ?

In any event, I can always make my own.


Paul Wolcott


#24 Noose

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Posted 08 July 2015 - 02:06 PM

Joe, you use 70% or 91% isopropyl alcohol ?

70%.   The wife would figure if I had 91% I would start to think of making bathtub gin.


Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"
"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#25 MSwiss

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Posted 08 July 2015 - 02:12 PM

Point taken :) but are you sure these are JK, not Parma ?
In any event, I can always make my own.

By the larger "clip" portion on the right,
I would say they are JK.

Mike Swiss
 
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559






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