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Inline gear mesh issues - help!


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#1 Joexemm

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 11:22 AM

Since I started racing the H&R chassis one thing I have not yet figured out is how to quiet down the gear mesh. I tried the lighter method and that's not producing results. I leveled the motor shaft with the axele, new gear both steel and brass on the pinion. I can't get that screaming noise out of it.

 

Other cars are really quiet so I'm losing speed to friction and I hate losing speed to friction...

 


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#2 MSwiss

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 11:36 AM

Use an ARP angled pinion, with a Parma pink crown, if you already aren't.


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#3 Joexemm

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 11:45 AM

Okay I'll have to pick up an angled pinion; right now I have all straight cut. Thanks for the tip.  

 

Is there a particular angle I should look for with the motor or just level the shaft with the axle like I have been?


Joseph Emm

 

"Success is the best Revenge".... - someone smart.

 

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#4 Noose

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 11:50 AM

You can also check this article out

 

How To Set A Gear Mesh


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#5 MSwiss

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 11:51 AM

ARP only sells one type of 48p angled pinion.

Yes, motor shaft alignment with the axle will always help.

Also, make sure you a little side play (approx. .005") in the back end, but not too much.

Also, make sure you can feel a tiny bit of lash.


Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
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#6 Matt Sheldon

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 02:09 PM

Burn the mesh in as well.


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#7 Tex

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 02:19 PM

Also, make sure you a little side play (approx. .005") in the back end, but not too much.

Also, make sure you can feel a tiny bit of lash.

 

If you have the armature shaft and the rear axle on the same plane, an angled pinion isn't necessary (it'll work fine, just not necessary). Beyond that, the two points above that Mike makes are crucial; setting a gear mesh too tight will sure screw you up and cause that "screaming" noise.


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#8 Cheater

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 02:37 PM

I've never had an H&R chassis in my hand, so maybe this is a dumb suggestion, but are the axle bushings solidly attached to the chassis?


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#9 kvanpelt

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 02:45 PM

Are you sure both gears are 48 pitch?


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#10 Joexemm

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 02:53 PM

100% sure both are 48p. Might not be the same brand.

 

3f723639dbdd8cdf0a845be8ea8eeddf.jpg

Soldered in bushings jigged so the axle is square to the car and level. I'm going to try a angled pinion next when I get to the track again. Otherwise to my knowledge I have (from my experience with angle winder 48p) the right lash and the right side play. Just a little and no binding.

 

afeb04d412a17158bc94a7a41e3a7468.jpg

Finished product. I hope the noise is gone on track. The rear is braced.


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"Success is the best Revenge".... - someone smart.

 

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#11 Cheater

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 03:11 PM

Joe,

 

Try this...

 

Hold the chassis in one hand and with the other hand try to push the motor sideways gently, applying pressure on the end of the motor where the wires attach. Don't go crazy with force; you're not wanting to break it off the chassis.

 

It shouldn't move at all and should feel quite solid. If the motor moves at all sideways under anything less than a significant amount of force, that can cause the gear mesh issues you're having. 

 

My thinking is that if you don't have problems with gear mesh on other cars, it's unlikely that it is simply an adjustment issue but rather that something is moving and/or flexing.


Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#12 Joexemm

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 03:20 PM

Cheater,

yeah its pretty solid i gave it a pretty good shove just now and nothing moved around.

 

im wondering if the gears im using are just cheap. they all have a pretty obvious wear spot in them and i tossed a few out cause they are practically grooved. all press fit gears as well. Thanks for all the input guys!


Joseph Emm

 

"Success is the best Revenge".... - someone smart.

 

C.O.W. retro chassis Everyone that runs one knows Checkers or Wreckers

 

 


#13 Paul5097

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 03:36 PM

From your picture it looks like the motor shaft is directly in line with the axle, so a straight pinion should work fine. However, you need to toss the press on pinion and go to a solder on pinion, either straight or angled. The press on fit pinions almost always deform when you are pressing them on the motor shaft and can cause noise and friction.


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#14 Gator Bob

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 03:37 PM

'Look at me when I'm talkin' to ya boy'    :laugh2:

 

You're doing great, learning this stuff. and ...what everyone said.

 

Did you make sure the car is square and solder it all on a jig?

 

Pitch - is a standard but there can be variance in quality of maintaining that standard. ARP steel angled or MSwiss for the 'super' press-on pinions if you have to have straight and don't want to solder or 'glue' them on.

 

Caveat : I don't know about setting up H&R chassis cars.  


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#15 John Streisguth

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 03:38 PM

Whatever you do, DON'T use brass pinions (or chrome plated brass ones). They wear out quickly, and as they wear out they screw up the teeth on the crown gear. You may have to start fresh with new crowns and good steel ARP tapered pinions. 

 

At the track that used to be local to me there was a group running the races, and one of the rules was you had to use the stock pinion, saying it simplified things for beginners.  Well, if they allowed upgrading to the steel angled pinions, they would last ten times longer, so what's REALLy better for beginners? :dash2:


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#16 Joexemm

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 04:00 PM

Here is what I'm taking from this.

 

a). Throw out all your gears cause the press-on ones are bent. (I should have thought of that myself... helloooo.)

b) Buy the good gears. 

c) I'm doing one thing right... asking questions as this is not my forte!


Joseph Emm

 

"Success is the best Revenge".... - someone smart.

 

C.O.W. retro chassis Everyone that runs one knows Checkers or Wreckers

 

 


#17 Gator Bob

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 04:16 PM

... asking questions as this is not my forte!

 
You're asking the right questions, too.


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#18 Matt Sheldon

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 07:56 PM

Nothing wrong with the Parma crown gears. Sure they may be a little out of true, but so are the majority of the others. They are made of a softer material and in general are quieter.

Put on an ARP angled pinion, set it, and forget it.

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#19 slotcarone

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 08:38 PM

Doesn't matter if you use an angled or straight pinion but it has to be a quality one that you solder on.


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#20 Bill from NH

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 09:53 PM

Joe,

Like most others here, I prefer to use solder-on pinions. However, if you want to use press-ons, look into the Sonic SS pinions. I think the 48 pitch starts at 7t. 15-20 years ago, I and my two kids used these pinions extensively, mostly in flexi programs. They last a lot longer than brass gears.

I don't own an H&R chassis, but I've driven a couple of them on a club track. They make sweet-handling hard body cars, much better, in my opinion, than an FCR. :)

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#21 James Wendel

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 11:36 PM

I have gone to Loctite red rather than solder. It's so much easier, and I haven't had a failure yet.
You can't always get what you want...

#22 Randy Tragni

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Posted 15 July 2015 - 09:30 AM

One thing I haven't seen come up is run in. Once you have all the right stuff incorporated there is nothing left except to break in the gears. The flame/soldering iron thing does help but sometimes certain gears can be stubborn.

You can use a lapping compound (various types available, I use Simichrome) to run the gears in. It takes a long time (maybe ten hours) and can wear out a good motor (so maybe use a dog motor). Apply compound, place in your favorite break-in box and run everything at 5 volts. Be aware of the motor sound (i.e. frequency and pitch amplitude). Add more compound occasionally and run until the gears sound smooth. Afterwards clean all of the compound off your gears and anywhere else it may have migrated to.





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