155 replies to this topic

[Steve Deiters]

Mike S., thanks for the "real world" observations.

 

Cheater, maybe it's time to have a thread for track owners and club guys to list and talk about the things that work for them. Not only in promotion and racing programs, but other items to carry in the non-slot racing realm. 

 

I'm not a believer from the school of "one size fits all", but you never know when ideas from different parts of the country and different forms of racing may meld together and cause some lights to go off in peoples' heads. That could be good for all of us.

[Cheater]

Steve,

 

No problem with starting such a topic, but it needs the right subject. Perhaps "Ideas that worked at our track"?

 

But I am cynical enough to feel it's unlikely to bring much benefit to the overall scheme of things. Let me clarify what I mean.

 

I continue to observe that so many of the commercial raceways ignore or neglect the basics of retail business, thus I'm thinking most everything that might be suggested is in the nature of a Band-Aid over a bullet hole in the chest. Or of installing a supercharger on an engine that has three burnt valves.

 

And the home and club raceways by and large don't seem particularly interested in working to attract new racers, though there are some that are.

 

And your underlying thesis reminds me of the typical racer's thinking along the lines of "If they'd only change the rules in this one way, that class will see a lot more participation."

 

In so many situations (1:1 racing, slot racing, electronics, airplanes, etc., etc.) it is the overall combination of all factors that generates signficant success and that's an approach few seem to understand and acknowledge, with even fewer working diligently to try to make it happen.

[PCH Parts Express]

Has anyone used an outdoor inflatable tube shaped dancing man to attract attention to the shop? 

[endbelldrive]

Remember Prohibition?  Make it illegal and folks will want to do it.    It would be good to hitch your wagon up to Maker/Hackserpace movement.  They have the space and the tools.  Stick a small track in the corner.

Females!  Nuff said.  

[tonyp]

I think Lou DelRosario of Elmsford has really done it right. He has always found a way to let lots of newspaper coverage. He knows how to get the press out to his shop. Last time I was up there on one wall was a ton of newspaper articles on the raceway. He does things like having the Giants or jets I forget which at the track etc. he is always promoting.

[John C Martin]

Has anyone used an outdoor inflatable tube shaped dancing man to attract attention to the shop?

 

Tracy Brown uses one at "The Track" in Whitehouse TN... that thing really gets your attention!!

[SlowToyCars]

I'm sitting here thinking about this, and the popularity of 1/32 cars in other portions of the world.

The competition in today's world is Nintendo, Microsoft, Sony, and then the various cell phone manufacturers, Facebook, Twitter, etc. All of these occupy time and require little to no work on the part of the consumer.

I have raced for the better part of 23 years now. I love to race. What kills it for me is time involvement. It's not bowling. Practice matters, but even to practice requires time to build a car, paint/mount a body, a lot of work.

The popularity of the highly detailed scale cars in Europe should be a clue. You can buy several different very unique models, all of which are competitive, in relative terms, they are very robust, and they require very little maintenance.

This significantly cuts the time involvement not directly related to trigger time necessary to be competitive. The first step toward making anything viable is to provide a formula in which participants feel like they have a chance. My XBox is the same as every other XBox and my skill at the game I am playing determines whether I win or lose on the live service. I don't have to build a better car!

Once you establish a similar formula for a base, which, BTW, TSRF cars are the closest current formula I am aware of, you can then focus on visibility. The easiest way to gain visibility is the oldest way. Word of mouth. That falls on the track owners to provide exceptional, friendly customer service, combined with a formula that encourages everyone to feel like if they put in the driving time, they have a chance to win.

If you can do this, you will retain customers, and gain new customers. Standardized equipment, including controllers, extremely robust, with several different body/look options for any given type, with equal performance is the first step.

The speed of a modern slot car is not just an attention getter. It also happens to be very intimidating. Cars that ran 7-8 or even 14-15 second lap times on a king style track are far less intimidating. The car needs to have an aspect of requiring one to drive the car (built in bad handling), no allowance for change, and realistic appearance.

When we get a manufacturer willing to build such cars, and promote them heavily, we have the basis for expansion. Track owners with clean facilities, no odors, and excellent customer service and a friendly environment, you now have success. Success breeds success, or 'expansion' as others see an opportunity. That expansion is the visibility everyone wants. But it all starts with the basis.

[jimht]

Some kneejerk thoughts...

For every "racer" in the real world of racing there are millions of vaguely interested players/spectators...likewise with video games, bowling, lawn darts, running for political office, gourmet chefs, angry birds, Rubiks Cubes and....slot cars.

No "race track", whatever the scale, can be successful without something going on all the time that helps pay the bills.

In the 1 to 1 scale world it's promotion that draws the watchers to the stands where they pay the bills/overhead by just gong through the gate and buying beer and Slim Jims. There's no need to have the spectators there every day, just getting them there for the races is enough. 

 

In a slot car raceway focusing on selling everyone a slot car and then having them come to an organised race just doesn't work.

Offering a few hours of organised racing in a 40-60 hour week has proven to be an abject failure as the way to pay the bills.

I know, and so do all the other long term Raceway owners out there, that simply filling the track with players when there are no scheduled races makes more money than anything else.

The focus on organised racing is too narrow. The smaller the market one focuses on, the smaller the participation, means less money in the register.

 

Yes, it really does matter what sort of slot car one presents to the players...but, the game is to somehow get them to come in and play with it, not race with it.

 

In the boom of the Sixties the tracks were full of players and the "racing" was limited.

The cars that were sold were designed to play with, fall apart and discard and if the interest was still there at that point, another was purchased and the demolition continued. Crash & Burn races, wildcat races or just disorganized mayhem kept the tracks full all day.

 

I've whined for years about using computers to do things besides run organised races, so I'll do it again.

How hard would it be to have a program running all the time that detects 2 or more cars running on a track, flashes on the monitor that a race will begin in 30 seconds if the players will bring their cars to the line, run a 5 lap race, declare the winner and flash that the next race will start in x minutes? Such a simple thing, use a computer to run a race, no lane change, just sort of organised, heads up racing.

The SRT guys didn't do it...maybe now that we have Windows based programs it could be done?

 

Would it solve all the problems?... no, but it would be a way that  players that don't own super duper highfalutin overpriced "race cars" could have more fun on a slot car track. 

[SlowToyCars]

Jim is correct - we cannot rely upon racers only.
Again - back to my "Bowling Ball" - currently - there is a mountain to climb.

 

Several hundred dollars worth of investment, as well as many hours of time, just to play with a toy.
You are on an open track with people who have drastically faster toys of a similar variety.
If you came in to watch, because you were interested, the cars are so fast you leave confused, not excited.
And to be honest, most people who look at these consider them "things". They do not resemble their beloved #88 Chevrolet, or the Miller Lite #2 they enjoyed at the race track. It doesn't look like that beautiful Ferrari they love. Nor bear any resemblence to the Indycars they like. It doesn't look like that LeMans-winning Audi. It doesn't really look like anything.

 

We must re-think what we perceive as being a good race car - great handling, faster than the next guy - if we would like to help make the tracks we want to race at successful. As a racer, you always want faster, you want to find an edge. You don't want to admit that perhaps your driving is lacking.

 

When it comes down to it, for amateur type racing, it may prove advantageous to use a golfing, or bowling type handicap. You start a season at the local track scratch - after three races, you average the laps, and use an 80-90% handicap from "average" over a large group.

 

There's a lot that can be tried, but I still think it all comes down to the basis of the hobby. In the '60s, model kits were a big deal. There were several manufacturers who were basically offering a "working" model kit, known as a slot car, from what I have read. Today - it has to be far more simple. The building, and for the most part, the maintenance aspect, has to be removed if we wish to make it appeal to a larger crowd.

 

​Remember - they have to be slow enough to see.

[Cheater]

What kills it for me is time involvement.

William,

I've said it many times: participation in leisure-time activities is largely determined by the "budgets" of time and money people have available to devote to such activities. (And anyone who doesn't acknowledge that model car racing is nothing more or less than a leisure-time activity is deluding himself.)

Of the two, the time required to partcipate in the activity is the more critical factor and that includes both the time required actually to participate in the activity as well as the time necessary to prepare to participate.

After all, anyone can make more money but there isn't any one yet who has been able to make more time.

[MattD]

I was going to write why I thought the future is so bleak for commercial tracks that 20-30 years from now you may be able to count the money-making commercial tracks in the US on two hands.
 
Instead of all the reasons I think that, I'd just like to ask you guys what your opinions are for the future. Not what can done or anything like that, but where you think things will really be.

[Pat Skeggs]

I think in 20 years it will be non-existent. The kids today like video games.

 

As for today's world everyone likes a shot at winning. A handicap system works great. At Slots-A-Lot we use to give newbies 50 to 100 laps; if they placed the next week they would get less. That's why the Retro East works, if you're a weaker driver you can be in an E Main and still have a chance of winning your Main.

 

But when you race at a local track and there are only eight racers your chance of winning is slim to none. If you give laps out more people will come, all people want is for a chance to win.

[SlowToyCars]

Again, imagine from the perspective of a new participant, where the car they see now is an indistinguishable blur going around. Slow the cars down, to roughly half the speed. Make them realistic, maintenance free, ready to run, and equal. Ensure they are top heavy, handle ill, and require some driving.

 

Greg is right. From the perspective of a racer, time is the factor. It's why I quit for the most part. Newer, more complicated equipment, too many classes. Too much time for me.

And yes, everyone likes to win. You'd be amazed how many people are happy and come to race when they feel competitive. They don't have to win, just know that the car could. Seen it many times. I was a fiercely competitive racer. Now I miss the hobby I used to enjoy. But honestly, it's much easier taking out an R/C plane, going in the field next door, and flying for a bit. No work needed. 10-15 minutes of my time enjoying the activity. 30 seconds to put the battery on a charger afterwards.

 

That's what we should be trying to emulate. Instead we cater to experienced racers and build the equipment for racers. Until someone chooses to step up, and change the products, and promote it towards the hobbyists, force the racers to tolerate it, then I feel it will continue to die out. Nobody has adapted to the changing competition.

[Cheater]

Great thread, guys!

[Pappy]

Instead we cater to experienced racers and build the equipment for racers. Until someone chooses to step up, and change the products, and promote it towards the hobbyists, force the racers to tolerate it, then I feel it will continue to die out. Nobody has adapted to the changing competition.

 

FCR is pretty much like that. Uses all stock parts.

[Eddie Fleming]

The trick to the FCR thing is the raceway needs to grow the class from scratch without the old racers mucking things up.

 

We are talking about growing the hobby, not a class for us to race.

[SlowToyCars]

FCRs fail the robust, tamper proof, scale tests. And are a bit too fast.

[Cheater]

We are talking about growing the hobby, not a class for us to race.

Not to insist on it, Eddie, but as the topic says, this thread was about bringing greater visibility of slot racing to the general public, which is not the same as growing the hobby.

But this is where discussions of this type always end up. And they always focus on the cars and their design, which I find sad and funny at the same time. The underlying belief seems to be that if only the proper kinds of cars are created, participation will increase. And that has never happened, not in over 50 years.

 

Let me say it again: the types of cars being raced in commercial raceways are not a significant factor in the continued shrinkage of that part of the hobby. A minor factor perhaps, but not a very significant one.

[MSwiss]

 Ensure they are top heavy, handle I'll, and require some driving. 

 

I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to say, but they need to handle well, which can be artificially accomplished by being slow.

 

Cheater questioned if a $25 retail car could be made, but I still contend it could.

 

I was at Target a few days ago and they sell a series of three 1/16 R/C monster trucks for $29.95. Gravedigger, Zombie (?), and some other goofy name. They are about a foot long, and look good, especially for the money.

 

Someone would have to make a $100K gamble, minimum, but I think it could be done.

[SlowBeas]

And yes, everyone likes to win. You'd be amazed how many people are happy and come to race when they feel competitive. They don't have to win, just know that the car could.

 

At Slots of Fun in Abbeville, SC, we tried handicapping racers similar to handicaps offered in bowling – I think it was about 90% of the diff between your average and the fastest guy.

 

The handicapping system was interesting and allowed different people to rank on the podium each race. It also required the "A" racers to be on top of their game each race.

 

Frankly, I think it helped inspire the slower racers, as they knew they had a chance to podium. However, I think it stressed the better guys who were accustomed to finishing at the top.

 

So, we offfered a benefit to some at the risk of alienating those who were more experienced. Did we run the risk of losing our better drivers because they were having to work harder and win less? Did the track run the risk of losing entry fees and parts sales of the better drivers?

 

We were fortunate that we didn't lose anyone because of the handicapping system. And it was great to see others have a chance to win. Just some reflective thoughts.

[Cheater]

... the future is so bleak for commercial tracks that 20-30 years from now you may be able to count the money-making commercial tracks in the US on two hands.

Matt, if your definition of "commercial tracks" is 1/24 wood track raceways, I think we're there right now. I'd be surprised if there are more than ten stand-alone commercial raceways in the US that will show a profit for the year 2015.

[tonyp]

I know Greg Walker at Holly Hill does a track at the Daytona 24 hour race. Says very few people come into the shop afterwards. So I am not sure what works any more. I know he has one or two programs with the Scouts and maybe schools for Ho clubs that come in on Saturdays. I know there are a few R/C clubs in schools sponsored by the local tracks and they have been going for quite some time. Not sure how you could get involved in local school or Boy Scouts but that would be exposure.

There is not one magic bullet that will make you visible. I think it takes a lot of little things. One thing that made slots grow in the beginning was you could buy a car anywhere. Bob Haines once suggested giving a car or two on consignment to the local hobby shop in your area or car repair shop whatever. It's exposure... if they sell it you get paid but the person has no use for it unless they come to your track to race it.

[Pappy]

We are talking about growing the hobby, not a class for us to race.

How do you grow the hobby without growing the classes we race?    Racing is the hobby.

[tonyp]

Racing is the hobby, today. When it started it was building cars and running them with your friends. You would have a dozen cars maybe with all different combos of motors bodies and chassis. All for fun.

I know as soon as racing starts that box of fun cars dwindles down to race cars that are only run in races. Track time for the track drops off and racing becomes the main focus. Those that do not want to race or are not good at it eventually fade away. Seen it thousands of times.

I remember going to a raceway in Long Island that had a tremendous Womp program. The owner begged me to run my Gp27 car on his Hillclimb. I put down a little glue, blazed around the track, and the customers eyes popped out. Within a month Big Larry had no more race program except for once a week Gp27 races. No more track time during the week.

When BIR opened up a few years later, I bet we had hundreds of people come in that used to race when the biggest raceway in the area was in business. Most were people who just liked slot cars and running the with a fried once a week for fun. None were impressed with the bodies which were a big turn off. A few raced with their old cars, a few ran Womps and most never came back in after seeing how poorly their old cars ran.

If we ever can get back to the lets just get some track time and run our cars slots would be much healthier. The more people you can get in the more the word spreads.

Since I have been in this hobby I have seen it happen over and over again. Roy Crawley, who we always though was crazy, was right when he said you had to keep the racing low tech to keep people involved and coming back. I know off subject but just my 1 cent, 2 cents pre-Obama.

[Gator Bob]

Well stated, by our statesman.

 

The moral? - "Speed Kills".