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Geezer Issues with lane changes


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#1 idare2bdul

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Posted 05 August 2015 - 10:59 PM

It would be nice as we age and our memory becomes less than it was if we could forget what we used to be able to do, since often our bodies are no longer able to do it. When I started racing the mains were 5 minutes and you had 3 minutes to pit. Amazingly in that 3 minutes you could get that car and if necessary change a motor or a set of tires or both. Retro rules have been in place for over a decade with relatively few rule changes. 

A little fast math shows that many, if not most Retro races have gotten ten years older in the same time frame. Retro organizations might consider adding 30 seconds or even a minute for lane changes to adjust to the physical issues of some of the racers, It wouldn't lengthen the day significantly.

 

If you need to shorten the time that it takes to run a race you can look to other areas like:

1. Tech can open on time and if you expect a large turn out have more than one inspector.

2. Allow shorter times between races. Few people need more than 15 minutes even if they are moving up and need to change a motor and tires. 

3. Shorten up meal breaks. If you have food available at the raceway 30 minutes should be enough. You didn't get more than that when you were a school kid, ( Hopefully the raceway can help get better food than school cafeterias.)

4. Tighten up on track calls.The race director shouldn't have to ask 3 or 4 times if all the cars are back on the track. If you can yell, "Clear or Tracks Right or use a moose call to let the director know the cars are back on it really helps speed things up.

 

I want to thank the Triangle Retro Racing organization for some of the things they are doing to make racing work for all racers. 


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#2 The Number of

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Posted 06 August 2015 - 04:47 AM

Good points all. :good:


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#3 Michael Rigsby

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Posted 06 August 2015 - 04:52 AM

Mike,

 

I can totally relate to this as my physical deterioration is getting worse due to Osteoarthritis and other maladies.  My knees and ankles are shot,  I have a bad shoulder, and I just don't move the way I did even back in  2008, but I do my best. At times, I have to ask other racers to retrieve my car from certain areas because my body just will not bend anymore at the knee, and I'm grateful for they help they give, or I would not be able to race.

 

Most retro programs do take too long. If the track opens at 8 AM, allow open track practice till 9 AM, then start tech at 9:15. Qualifying should begin within a half hour after tech at the local level and longer for national or regional events. Three minutes on, and two and a half off should suffice, and that extra four minutes can be made up in the race day by keeping the program moving, cutting down on lunch time, and holding open track practice at local events to thirty minutes between classes.

 

Consider dropping qualifying time to 30 seconds.

 

Tightening up on track calls is a great idea.  Perhaps if a driver is constantly coming off in one area and yelling track, maybe there should be a limit on how many track calls they get (yeah I know I opened a can of worms there).  If there are enough marshals and as long as the marshal is not overwhelmed and there are no cars on the floor, it's not a track call.

 

It not only helps us guys who can't move, but also gets the day done quicker and lets those of us that drive a long way to get home before midnight. Your reasons given are sound, and no reason that an extra 30 seconds should not be considered especially when that time can be made up in other areas very easily.

 

No reason that retro race day that starts at 8 am when the track opens and doesn't end till 5 PM and there are only three classes being run.  That's way overkill.


"... a good and wholesome thing is a little harmless fun in this world; it tones a body up and keeps him human and prevents him from souring." - Mark Twain

#4 Pappy

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Posted 06 August 2015 - 05:41 AM

Two minutes between heats is plenty. What the hell are doing to your car that takes over two minutes? I usually walk over, put a lane sticker and some braid juice on it, set it in my next lane and go back to the drivers station. That's all the break is for. You're not suppose to have time to rebuild your car between heats. When you hold up a race to let everyone fix their car all you do is guarantee the fastest guy is going to win. In endurance races you are not allowed to work on your car between lane changes even if you started working on it before the lane change. You must stop working on it and wait until the power comes back on.

 

Track calls are suppose to be for a rider, inaccessible car or a problem with the track. All eight cars can be off in one turn and as long as there is a track marshal working on it it's not a track call. If you get a bad break "that's racing", suck it up.


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#5 Don Weaver

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Posted 06 August 2015 - 06:04 AM

Amen, Butch.....

 

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#6 John Streisguth

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Posted 06 August 2015 - 06:06 AM

3 classes and done by 5pm? That only happens at the summer races up here, and we run 2 classes. That's entirely due to the number entries as we move things along, no BS.

If a car is constantly coming off at the same spot, if there is not a problem with the track then that driver needs to take his/her car off and fix it.  I think most rule books have something to say about situations like that. And definitely marshals should not work on a car beyond the 2 seconds it may take to straighten braid.  Unless you have 30+ entries to run through, adding another 30 seconds between heats shouldn't be a big deal as long as everyone is OK with it.  Or, if a few people have physical issues, maybe others could give them a hand??


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#7 tonyp

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Posted 06 August 2015 - 07:07 AM

I would never be able to race with out Doc helping me out at the track. Thank you Doc..


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#8 Noose

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Posted 06 August 2015 - 07:17 AM

Butch, it's the walking part for some. Plus all those wide butts trying to get into one tight spot.  LOL We have plenty of guys that help others pit. 


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#9 Half Fast

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Posted 06 August 2015 - 08:52 AM

Good points all. At Retro East we do have a number of guys with "age related infirmities". I don't know what the answer is but here is a proposed slogan:

 

Retro Racing: It ain't just the cars!  :)

 

Cheers


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#10 Pappy

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Posted 06 August 2015 - 09:02 AM

Plus all those wide butts trying to get into one tight spot.  LOL 

A wide butt and a big belly are an advantage. We can move all you skinny butt's and flat bellies out of our way.  :D  :laugh2:


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#11 Michael Rigsby

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Posted 06 August 2015 - 09:31 AM

I know some guys have no problem with two minutes, but sometimes I do on kings or a large hill climb track. A lot of us older guys don't make it around like we once did, and we appreciate any help we receive. I would like to race and build for a few more years, and face it, it is rare to see a young person running retro cars.

I think some minor change could be made on local levels. Four minutes added to a race is not much.
"... a good and wholesome thing is a little harmless fun in this world; it tones a body up and keeps him human and prevents him from souring." - Mark Twain

#12 Pappy

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Posted 06 August 2015 - 10:07 AM

Michael,

 

I've been racing in a flexi car race on Thursday nights at a local track. They have three minutes between heats and guess what, they still have guys who are not ready when the power comes on and they hold up the race. If you gave them five minutes between heats some of them still wouldn't be ready to go, it's human nature. 

 

I still say you don't need anymore than two minutes to hook your controller up to the next lane, move your car, add some braid juice and a lane sticker. Now if you want to study the lap counter, bull crap or cool your motor down then "yes" you do need more than two minutes. I really hate the three minutes between lanes when I'm turn marshaling, it seems like it takes forever to finish a race. I'm 64 years old, eighty pounds overweight and I still get ready to go in plenty of time because I don't screw around.


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#13 Gator Bob

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Posted 06 August 2015 - 10:22 AM

This is about the "Human Race".

 

Driver - 80 lbs. overweight

Car - .05 Grams overweight

 

Driver - 1.5 minutes to get around the track

Car - 3.9 seconds to get around the track

 

Driver - Senior citizen (a.k.a Geezer)

Car- State of the art, 2 weeks old

 

Driver - eats stale bread

Car - tires fresh out of the .....


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#14 Gator Bob

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Posted 06 August 2015 - 10:24 AM

I would never be able to race with out Doc helping me out at the track. Thank you Doc..

 

Thanks for helping Tony, Doc.

 

"Doc, you pit my car and I'll let you finish ahead of me but you still have to go get me a 'slice and a Coke' to keep your 'geek' status... "


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#15 John C Martin

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Posted 06 August 2015 - 10:30 AM

I give up on going back to my box at lane change..way to stressful ,,lol.
I got a portable fan with bottle holders, I stick cut pieces a tape for repairs to it..plus extra braid & pins..tire & gear wrench is in my pocket .this weekend I'll wear my little apron that has pockets..and I'll be first back at the panel to relax for sure ..try it you'll be sold..
Besides oiling is over rated, they don't need oiling every 3 min. This is not done when we practice for much more than 3 min...over oiling and dope on the braids slings onto the track and guess who runs through it the next Lap (you).. I don't oil or dope at all if my car is entering or in a turn for that reason...
I think in general this is just a nervous habit to run back to your box and put all this stuff on.
I Simply oil in the middle heats , and flip the braid...
and check for excessive heat in the motor if cooling is needed I cool it , and check gear mesh..
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#16 John Streisguth

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Posted 06 August 2015 - 11:27 AM

If it's a case where everyone is running back to their box, that's overkill for retro cars, and unecessary.  At our annual 6 hour enduro most of the cars "may" get oiled at the lane change, every 45 minutes.  They don;t neeed to make a pit stop every 3 minutes unless they are wrecked.


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#17 Pappy

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Posted 06 August 2015 - 12:36 PM

We ran a two hour enduro with FCR's in Indianapolis one time and didn't oil it for the whole two hours. We won the race by 1 lap because everyone else stopped to oil their cars and put braid juice on 3 or 4 times. We had the slowest car on the track but not stopping and not tearing the car up made the difference.


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#18 Dante

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Posted 06 August 2015 - 02:17 PM

I’m tied to a wheelchair and the controller has a 10 feet extension to allow me to stay put.

I wife helps me; she chances the controller to the proper color and then changes the sticker, braid juice and anything else. Then she goes to corner Marshall (the whole race).

I need the 2 minutes between heats, actually my wife does!!!

She’s quite a girl!!!!


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#19 William Eugene

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Posted 06 August 2015 - 02:59 PM

Two minutes between heats is plenty. What the hell are doing to your car that takes over two minutes? I usually walk over, put a lane sticker and some braid juice on it, set it in my next lane and go back to the drivers station. That's all the break is for. You're not suppose to have time to rebuild your car between heats. When you hold up a race to let everyone fix their car all you do is guarantee the fastest guy is going to win. In endurance races you are not allowed to work on your car between lane changes even if you started working on it before the lane change. You must stop working on it and wait until the power comes back on.

 

Track calls are suppose to be for a rider, inaccessible car or a problem with the track. All eight cars can be off in one turn and as long as there is a track marshal working on it it's not a track call. If you get a bad break "that's racing", suck it up.

So, are you saying, if a marshal is overwhelmed with cars off in front of him , you should just let the power stay on, and let cars blast into them ?  As a race director, your job should be to protect the equipment as well, and unless you just love to see scratchbuilt cars blasted into oblivion, then I believe that as a race director you are not doing your job..   Just my opinion, but I think there is a reason you are a RACE DIRECTOR , not just a guy with a power on/off switch

 

Also, if this is supposed to be racing amongst friends, waiting for someone to tighten a loose gear or wheel does not take much time and shows courtesy or manners.... If you can not beat someone straight up, then do you feel really great winning because a guy lost a wheel ?   This is on a regular race, because I understand that at a big event, more people will kill each other for one podium position, I am just talking a regular monthly race.

 

Showing a little courtesy might actually encourage more people to race .  Who knows,


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#20 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 06 August 2015 - 04:16 PM

Actually it does not hurt my feelings a bit to beat someone because he lost a wheel.

 

Part of racing is building and prepping the car to run the race, and taking care of it (driving) in the race.

 

Sure in a local race a little slack to fix this or that is all good but don't loose sight of the fact it is a race.

 

I ran in a race last week where we stopped to let a guy put the motor back in his car twice or was it three times.


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#21 Tim Neja

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Posted 06 August 2015 - 04:32 PM

Seems really easy to add a little time for change over for slower people.  It's supposed to be FUN, not serious as a heart attack!! :)


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#22 Gator Bob

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Posted 06 August 2015 - 04:41 PM

I’m tied to a wheelchair and the controller has a 10 feet extension to allow me to stay put.

I wife helps me; .....

She’s quite a girl!!!!

 

Sad to here of the handicap but wonderful to hear about a wife that cares so much.

 

Luckily I have 'one of those' ... or I wouldn't be typing this message.

She is quite a girl too.

 

I pray you walk again Dante. ....and then get a controller with short lead wires.


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#23 Gator Bob

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Posted 06 August 2015 - 04:42 PM

Actually it does not hurt my feelings a bit to beat someone because he lost a wheel.

 

Part of racing is building and prepping the car to run the race, and taking care of it (driving) in the race.

 

Sure in a local race a little slack to fix this or that is all good but don't loose sight of the fact it is a race.

 

I ran in a race last week where we stopped to let a guy put the motor back in his car twice or was it three times.

 

Hey Eddie .... did you happen to see where my wheel went.... :dash2:  :laugh2:  


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#24 raisin27

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Posted 06 August 2015 - 05:24 PM

Yes, if all 8 cars are off in the same corner it is not a track call. Track calls are unmarshalable cars or riders. A car on the floor is not an unmarshallable car unless it is out of reach. The biggest difference in racing I have noticed since returning from a 25 year hiatus is that now everything seems to be a track call. It is so frustrating when there is no penalty for deslotting and not fair at all to the racer who drives within his limits and stays in the slot.


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#25 Gator Bob

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Posted 06 August 2015 - 05:42 PM

Can this topic turn into an argument ?


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