158 replies to this topic

[PCH Parts Express]

Last weekend a couple of slot car and R/C racers came in to pick up some repaired wing cars. They had mentioned that when they go to R/C races the rules are the same from one track to another.
 
A. Is that true?
 
B. Is there one class that is already being run that could be the class where the rules are always the same? Like bowling.

[Noose]

There is but depends which rule set is chosen to be used.

[Cheater]

Short answer: no. The agreement part is the deal-breaker.

[PCH Parts Express]

It could be done the democraptic way. Have an online vote to choose the rules to accept.

[Noose]

Where online? Right now there has to be 20 different places people go to.

[CoastalAngler1]

Do you have a flexi?  Yes
Does it have a slot car body?  Yes
Does the rear measure 3.25" or less?  Yes
Can the rear clear .050"?  Yes
Does it have a Retro Hawk motor?  Yes
Let's race!
 
Hmmm - Retro cars are a more experienced crowd and they have rules that work - if it ain't broke, well you know...

[PCH Parts Express]

The online vote can be done here on Slotblog. The rules sheets can all be put in a hat. Then have someone not interested in the outcome pick two. Then place those two rules sheets up for the online vote.

[PCH Parts Express]

Bad idea....

 

We could either select a showcase RTR or have JK make a class car with a class part number. This could insure that all cars come with the same gear ratio incase gears are part of the rules. JK makes slot cars and scale cars. Pick one or more of those art numbers. Then go.

 

4" wheelbase is the most popular

Painted .010" or thicker Lexan bodies that can be easily purchased are popular (must have driver and three numbers?)

64 pitch gears are popular (plastic spur only)

The cars would run about $68.

 

Then you can take cars you already own and show up. Older cars would be legal. As long as they comply. 

[CoastalAngler1]

The agreement part is the deal-breaker.

 

Agreed.

[John Streisguth]

There are plenty of standardized rules sets. But are you talking stamped steel chassis, Retro cars, wing cars?  Then people start tweaking the rules because they like certain types of bodies, or want to run certain types of motors. It's an impossible task, and most people don't travel very far to race anyway, so I don't see the point of worrying about it.

[Noose]

We have six raceways here that when it comes to Retro racing they all agree on the same set of rules for each class run. This is whether or not it's a series race or a weekly race.  They all use the same rule set.

[Danny Zona]

I'm a big fan of Ralph Thorne's Outlaw Series.

IRRA^® Can-Am, flexi NASCAR, and flexi GTP.

They are a nice mix of cars.

The flexi rules are simple and make it easy on the novice racers.

A lot of racers in our region are interested and so are track owners. I can see a future where FL will run Outlaw Series Rules.

[Jeff Bechtel]

That is why when I opened my raceway I used Parma rules for flexis and USRA rules for wing cars. Then the USRA made their own flexi rules. For years the raceways in our area all used the same rules and it was great. Then everyone started making local changes to those rules and the cat was out of the bag. 

 

When I was asked to help new raceways open I always strongly suggested that we use the same rules so that if a racer traveled to another raceway he did not have to make changes to be legal. Somewhere along the way everyone started making their own rules and we have what we have today. That was one of the biggest reasons that the Raceways Owners Association was started to keep some consistency with the rules so that we did not run into this problem. 

[John C Martin]

A lot of track owners have in their mind what they want to run, and that's it... then they go out of business in a year or so and wonder why.

 

Regional series races should be enough to let some of those owners know what's popular to run at their tracks but that doesn't always sink in.

[PCH Parts Express]

4" flexi type cars would make a good choice. It would not be a mandatory class. Just a simple class. Maybe call it $5 Flexi? $5 entry is just an idea. It could be a selling point when you tell a new person that this car is legal at raceways all over. 

[PCH Parts Express]

How about we go back to driver grouping?

 

Beginner

Novice

Amateur

Semi-Pro

Pro

[Noose]

Regional series races should be enough to let some of those owners know what's popular to run at their tracks but that doesn't always sink-in..

 

Bingo.

[Tex]

I don't see the need to formally adopt one set of rules. Of course, I'm only talking "Retro" here. The rules are available online and close enough from one organization to another that the differences are easily accommodated with small changes.

[PCH Parts Express]

I wasn't thinking of Retro. Retro is doing well the way it is.  

[JimF]

Scott:

 

Kudos, man... but you be dreamin'. I have been off and on with slots since 1966 and this has been the nightmare for racers and owners alike for all that time. Retro does seem to be the current exception but for the rank and file... I'll spare the gory details but will say that there were IME... two exceptions.

 

When I left NorCal in the early '90s for a five-year working stint in the east, there was a local series that had recently started up. It was titled ~ NorCal Stock Car Racing association (or somesuch). At the time, most all the tracks around adopted those rules and there was harmony... for a while.

 

When I arrived in the east, I discovered that most of the New England tracks observed the Parma Challenge Cup rules and the big series throughout the region was called the NECC. IIRC... New England Challenge Cup. I found that almost all the tracks in the NE area adopted those rules and followed what Parma published. The tracks and the racers did not decide the rules... Parma did. There was sort of a fringe series called the ~ NY-NJ Metro series that (of course) just had to run different rules but it was relatively minor at the time.

 

When I returned to NorCal, the series was still going strong but over time, the powers that be started to morph that series into something more technical, and then more technical still. Now... we have a traveling flexi series with rules that bear almost zero resemblance to what the local tracks run. Hence the problem. If you let the racers decide (inmates running the asylum) you will not have continuity anywhere.

 

The defining factor when those series had at least solid multi-state acceptance was leadership. When there isn't any... it don't work.

[Big Durl]

I've seen a lot of classes come and go (though not nearly as many as most of you old farts), but the one that has endured and seems to exist around the country is:

 

4" Stamped steel flexi

Balanced 16D motor

7 thou Nascar bodies 

Independently rotating front wheels

 

I've raced those things all over California, and in New York and Georgia, too.

 

There may be local tweaks like sticker fronts, 10 thou bodies, plastic interiors (brrrr!), but it seems like you can put that one car in your Barbie lunchbox and race anywhere.

[Jay Guard]

Retro is doing well, not only because of the (nearly) common rule set but also to a large extent because of the IRRA^® BoD structure. No other organization that I know of is run as well.

Also, as John S. above said there really aren't that many racers who are willing to travel very far, even a hour away in most cases. So while I agree that a common rule set would be a very desirable thing to have in place I'm not sure it would have an immediate affect. It might start to show up in the longer run though, and that should be enough to get the track owners on-board.

Unfortunately it never seems to have worked out that way as every track owner wants to run his own "brilliant" set of rules. Hmmmm, wonder where that thinking has gotten 90+% of the guys who have opened up raceways?

[Cheater]

Durl,

Just as an aside, 16Ds aren't the motor of the present or the future IMO, primarily because of the death of the Deathstar (and I don't believe it is ever coming back for a number of reasons). The FK motors are the 16Ds now.

[Jay Guard]

The Retro Hawks handle a lot better too which is great for the novices. Also they are much harder, but unfortunately not impossible, to, shall we say, bend the rules with.

[Gator Bob]

The FK motors are the 16Ds now.