41 replies to this topic

[MSwiss]

Below are some cars Mark Mattei brought by Saturday night to run around the flat track after our regular Saturday night racing.
 

A black Cheetahracha.


With the black Iso-fulcrum chassis.


A hardbody Monogram Ferrari 275P(?).


With an Adam's & Sons chassis underneath.


Kemtron(?) powered.


A 56(?) vac-formed T-Bird with a undetermined production sidewinder frame.
The significance being the fairly unique, snap-in, body mounting system, incorporating the rear, inner corner of the body and front bumper dagmars.
 

Nothing super-special here.
A nicely-assembled Cox Ford GT, but with the ultra-cool Cox Sil-Sliks.
These were a staple of my home track until they started to allow traction additives.


A rat roddish hardbody panel truck.
 

A Mark Mattei built, front motor, rear drive chassis, with working leaf springs.

[SlotStox#53]

Seriously cool collection!

How did the Cheetah and the Adam & Sons cars run, Mike?

[Big Durl]

Really cool wabi-sabi paint and rear wheels on that panel truck.  

[MSwiss]

How did the Cheetah and the Adam & Sons cars run Mike?

 

I knew someone would ask that question.

As usual, I was too busy ringing out customers at the end of the night to give them a spin.

I really wanted to run the Adam's & Sons car.

Especially after I saw how well Brent Jarvis's sprung Tamiya chassis ran a few weeks previously.

That car fell apart before I got a chance to take a few laps.

[proptop]

Nice...

 

I think the chassis under the T-bird might be a Tradeship?

[Pablo]

Ultra cool, Mike, where do you find these builders?

 

Tell Mark I have the correct size rubber bands for that Cuc chassis if he wants one.

[don.siegel]

Yep, same question here about how the cars ran, especially the Adam & Sons... I ran the first generation Quad in a race, but when I tried out the second gen model, like this one, it snapped a joint! Those are either KTM or Kemtron motors. Adam switched between the two generations of cars, but can't remember offhand which is which... and Mark's model was indeed sold with a Monogram Ferrari body, oddly enough because it doesn't really fit at all! 

 

That unidentified chassis is indeed a Tradeship - there's one up on eBay now, or it may have recently finished. 

 

I do believe Mark has one of the bigger collections around! 

 

Don 

[Howie Ursaner]

Nice cars!

[Mark Mattei]

Mike, thanks for posting the pics, if I can make this Saturday, I'll bring the Adams car for you to thrash.

 

Don, if you need one of those white nylon universals I can send one.

 

A few of us bring vintage stuff to run after Saturday's Hardbody races, always glad to see more.

 

Thank you all for your comments and interest.

 

Mark.

[TSR]

Regarding the Mk II version of the Adams & Sons car,
 

Mark's model was indeed sold with a Monogram Ferrari body, oddly enough because it doesn't really fit at all!

 

It's never been clear if A&S actually mounted the bodies on the chassis, because all the Mk IIs we have ever run across (about a dozen now) came in the standard plastic box, which is way too small to fit a complete car. Thing is, one of the characteristics of some of the complete cars offered at online auction had the drivers painted yellow and the Monogram number decals and white stripes installed, just like the picture on the A&S adverts... so, what to think?

 

 

Likely, a limited number of cars must have been fitted with the body for promotional purposes and pictures, but the ones actually marketed must have been shipped in the plastic box with the Monogram body kit unassembled and sealed in its standard container... like this one: 



The lot likely in a brown corrugated shipping box! 

We probably will never know.

 

[MSwiss]

Yep, same question here about how the cars ran, especially the Adam & Sons... I ran the first generation Quad in a race, but when I tried out the second gen model, like this one, it snapped a joint!

Mark came by on Saturday for our hardbody points race.

At the end of the night, I made it a point to get over to try the Adam's and Son's car.

I was informed it blew a universal midway through it's first shakedown lap. Lol

I did get to run the metal dual drive truck pictured.

It ran much better than I thought.

It had massive wheel hop, but I managed a 9.68 on the Flat track.

As a reference, I think the LaCucaracha I had would run high 7's or low 8's.

Earlier, while setting up a race on the King,I heard some hooting and hollering from the Flat track.

Mark was running his harness racing contraption.

It's fully articulated.

Howie and Brian(?) supposedly video taped it.

Maybe they'll post it on FB.

I've seen it go.

It's guaranteed to make you smile.

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[don.siegel]

 

 

Don, if you need one of those white nylon universals I can send one.

 

Mark.

Mark, that's very kind of you, but in fact I have the universals - a lucky find on ebay! Replaced them on one of my cars and waiting to do the other, but it's very hard trying to figure out how to get the little cotter pin in there... kind of like a small brad, but bent on the other end, and can't for the life of me figure out how to bend that in such a small space and at that angle... I used thinner piano wire on the other car (a MkII), but it's got way too much play... 

 

Sorry to hear the universal popped on yours too - they're nylon I believe, and probably a little brittle 50 years later! Not really the most elegant part of these cars... 

 

Don 

[MSwiss]

Mark mentioned on his, it's just uses straight pins.

[don.siegel]

Ok Mike, guess I'll try that... but not sure about the bend! 

 

Don 

[MSwiss]

Maybe Mark can offer some advice.

I don't understand the exact logistics, but a pin should be easier to bend than piano wire.

[TSR]

I would use plated brass pins, they can take it and are easy to bend...
 
The original "MK1" had machined aluminum universals, the Nylon jobs came with the second series of the MK1 that used bolted chassis parts instead of... welded! Made sense except Nylon is a plastic that ages rather rapidly and becomes very brittle. Racing safety belts were all made (until recently) of Nylon webbing, and this is why the various organizations want you to change them every five years.

[MSwiss]

Howie posted the video of the fabulous slot horse on both his and the Chicagoland Raceway FB page.

[don.siegel]

Thanks Philippe, I'll try different pins... also, didn't know the original universals were metal, that's better! 

 

Checked motors and I have KTM on both cars: are your's the same? The MkII is listed with a KTM 6V, but I seem to remember the first one with a Kemtron...

 

Don 

 

PS: MKI ad and article: 

 

 

[tonyp]

Nice low center of gravity on the motor mounting.

[MSwiss]

SlotStox#53, on 14 Sept 2015 - 3:48 PM, said:

How did the Cheetah and the Adam & Sons cars run Mike?
 

I knew someone would ask that question.
As usual, I was too busy ringing out customers at the end of the night to give them a spin.
I really wanted to run the Adam's & Sons car.
Especially after I saw how well Brent Jarvis's sprung Tamiya chassis ran a few weeks previously.
That car fell apart before I got a chance to take a few laps.

 

Yep, same question here about how the cars ran, especially the Adam & Sons... I ran the first generation Quad in a race, but when I tried out the second gen model, like this one, it snapped a joint!

Mark fixed the universal and gave me first crack at running it.

The good news was that the car didn't break this time, despite 10-12 hard laps.

The bad news was I was pretty underwhelmed how it ran.

The car had massive wheel hop, despite not having sticky tires.

The best I could do, driving the crap out of it, was a 10.52.

That's at least 2 seconds slower than something like a La Cucaracha, and didn't look nearly as good, going around, as the simpler Tamiya suspension car Brad Jarvis brought by over a month ago.

[TSR]

Don,

KTM and Kemtron are pretty much the same thing. The same company in Japan built both, from what a Japanese insider, who knew the people involved personally, told me.

A small extract from that book that has a tough time getting out of the womb:
 

KTM (Katsumi/Kyodo Light)
Kyodo Light was a manufacturer of the Katsumi-KTM and Kemtron electric motors. This company was based in Kanagawa, Japan and also manufactured precise model trains and at least one of the large-size model cars for the Swiss company Fulgurex.*

*(Information graciously provided by Takehisa Yamada)

As far a Mike's test, it perfectly reflects what the "Quad" runs like, and this over-engineered marvel is not a good track performer, simply an expensive curiosity. Interestingly, it was not the only such animal, as we have several samples of Japanese built similar machines at the LASCM, and of course there is the Ulrich car, which does perform a lot better.

Hiram "Hi" Johnson of Dynamic, made the same mistake in its first R/C recing model that equally flopped and that is today, equally collectible and sought after...
Yes, you can over-engineer stupid! 

[MSwiss]

I almost referenced the Dynamic 1/8 gas R/C car.

Your picture of the back of the A & S car, in post #16, reminded me of it.

The hobby shop I worked for had one in stock. Very expensive. We probably eventually dumped it at our cost.

[tonyp]

The Dynamic R/C cars were junk. By the time it came out, Associated released the RC1 which Mike Morrissey worked on and it immediately made everything obsolete. It was a slot car inspired lightweight pan car using foam tires for the first time in R/C.

 

I remember when Car Model mag reviewed it they had a scale and the Associated car weighed less than the hard rubber tires and aluminum rims which most other cars used at the time. Sort of like how the anglewinder changed slot car chassis overnight.

[don.siegel]

Interesting reflections guys. Philippe, what Japanese cars are you referring to? The International chassis with suspension, steering and differentials? Those are the only ones I know of... And nothing was as complicated as the Quad! 

 

In defense of the A&Q Quad, it was about a year ahead of the Cuc, and more than that ahead of the Tamiya... I don't remember exactly how mine drove, just that it worked fairly well on most lanes because it was heavy and had a strong motor! I used Riggen silicones at the time, because the spongies were all dried up. I seem to remember it crabbed a bit in the tighter corners, especially as the steering seemed to work its way loose. All tightened up it was probably a good performer for a ca 1965 slot car! 

 

And if you got an Ulrich to perform any better, I'd love to see that movie! (I've just been working on some, and it's not exactly precision engineering, but it was a lot cheaper than the Quad...)

 

Don 

[Mark Mattei]

Hi Don, I've had this for a while and wasn't sure who made it, International?

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