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#1 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 09:20 AM

Copied from New Raceway West Coast Florida post:

 

DOC in COCOA Posted Today, 08:57 AM

I have talked to a few raceway owners and many drivers concerning the Outlaw Rule set. The consensus was that the Outlaw rules would destroy My Series.  We have grown a little bit in the last two years, but could always be better. By trashing everything that has been established and go a completely different direction will destroy the series. What we need to do is to cut down to 4 car classes each race day and keep as much continuity as possible.  It is obvious that the three car classes that should continue (w/o any rule changes) according to car count is 4" NASCAR, GT1/LMP, and GTP.  My Series has introduced a new flexi car class recently: JK RTR Indy Cars.  The first race was awesome with 11 entries.  Furthermore, we need to discuss Group F and Group 12.

 

Also, as proven in Jacksonville, the local raceway will build a strong local racing program by running car classes that are reflected in a state wide series.  No moving target on the rules. When the out-of-towners come into town to race in a state race, the racers and the raceway owner benefit from larger and more competitive fields. A win-win situation which hopefully keeps the raceway doors open.  Us racers need a raceway to go to. Support your local raceway.

 

Dan Dougherty
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#2 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 09:21 AM

MySeries doesn't need a new name, just some rule tweaks to better align with what others are doing across the country with flexi cars.  USRA is not very involved with My Series, except to use as a starting point for My Series rules.  USRA Membership is not required to participate in My Series.

 

I would like to open up the discussion with possible rule changes:

 

.050 rear clearance (tested in Daytona, works just fine)

Fronts OR wheel stickers

Any commercially available bodies

Eliminate race bucks

Increase race fee to $12.50

 

The cars handle great at .050, easier for newbies for sure and adds a speed dimension for the pros.  All you do is jig at .750, then run .730 tires.

Fronts - this has been beaten elsewhere.  Fronts don't do anything in a flexi car - not appearance nor functionality.

Slot car bodies are a moving target when it comes to inventory - should be anything goes as long as bumpers satisfy tech.

 

We could talk with Ralph Thorne and ADD some Outlaw events in 2016 for the southeast racing community to race with us.


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#3 Michael Rigsby

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 09:44 AM

Though I don't race flexi anymore, I can agree with what you are saying Charlie. I raced My Series since 2008 when I won the amateur NASCAR championship, and I saw it change a lot, not always for the good.

The .050 clearance is something that could be allowed with no issue. GT1/LMP needs to be opened up to any commercially available LMP body, not just JK products. The powers that be have been blocking this for years and is one contributing factor to me quitting flexi racing.

All the classes need to be open to any commercially available body, regardless of manufacture...Period. There are excellent RedFox LMP and GTP bodies that My Series won't let run, and that is a shame.

I also like the idea of using one motor across the board. It makes for more even and less expensive racing. The My Series races that use built motors have got out of hand...all of them.

I talked to a lot of racers too, and most of them prefer the Outlaw Series rules and approach for keeping it simple. You have maybe one track owner and a couple of racers bucking the change.

Good luck with your effort Charlie. But unless the racers get together themselves and get a majority to agree to them, the My Series rules will stay unfortunately.

Clearance-no issue.
Bodies- no issue, allow any available body legal for the class
Motor- no issue,Retro Hawk fits all.

It is that simple...till you start bucking the My Series establishment.

Get organised
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#4 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 09:53 AM

The SE guys have had many oppurtunities to race with Florida racers in the GRRR series. But they have not.  The past has proven that rule commonality with some other series outside of Florida will not and have NEVER brought racers into Florida.

 

Another point: Having on average only 4 raceways in Florida who were part of the My Series format for the last 5 years, I think that having the number of entries that the series has is actually pretty good under those circumstances. Over the 1st 8 races this year, My Series has averaged 14 entries in 4" NASCAR (110 total), averaged 13 entries in GT1/LMP (101 total), average 9 entries in GTP (73 total), averaged 5.5 in Group F (44 total), and averaged 4 entries in Group 12 (32 total).

 

Based on these numbers and the complete lack of outside state racers, I think very strongly that we should tweak the My Series rule set and car classes.  My short list is 4" NASCAR (no changes to these rules), GT1/LMP (no changes to these rules), GTP (no changes to these rules). If it ain't broke don't fix it!

 

Other car classes are the RTR JK Indy Car (box stock, mainly aimed at beginners). Another car class could be the endurance chassis with Hawk 7 motors.


Doc Dougherty
GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
My Series Spring 2016 4" NASCAR, JK LMP State Champion, and Endurance State Champion
My Series 2015 4" NASCAR, GTP and Endurance State Champion
​GRRR 2015 4 1/2" and F1 Champion
​GRRR 2013 & 2014 Evil Flexi Champion
1968 Cleveland Car Model Series race winner - Tom Thumb Raceway, North Royalton, Ohio
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#5 Danny Zona

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 09:54 AM

I myself, done with My Series. It's just not for me and a few racers /track owners I know. If racers still like My Series, cool. Once again, it's just not for me.

Now Outlaw Series, sign me up. Love the rule set. I love how you can use the same motor in three classes. Way easier on new racers. Easier on the pocket as well. You can use same exact car in flexi classes. Just change the body from a nascar to a gtp. Simple and easy for new racers.
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#6 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 09:55 AM

Make it easy for new racers, and folks who visit Central Florida.  

Add some interesting twists from the old days like pit challenges held as bonus days/points on a weeknight.

 

Currently My Series uses 5 motors in 5 classes, RH, H6, H6BD, H7, GP12...

One motor makes perfect sense, especially for newbies.  One manufacturer car classess are monopolistic.

Change body from NASCAR to GTP to LMP...easy.  (of course, pros will have multiple chassis/bodies/motors each)

 

Last year track owners did not get organized until late December for a series that is supposedly decided by the racers.

Currently there are 4 Florida tracks with 7 different cars racing weekly programs...and they are ALL different.  Only one matches any of the MYS.  Jax is gone, their program has no impact on the future.  GRRR has not promoted very well to entice the SE racers to visit. 


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#7 Ralph Thorne

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 10:09 AM

Based on these numbers and the complete lack of outside state racers, I think very strongly that we should tweak the My Series rule set and car classes.  My short list is 4" NASCAR (no changes to these rules), GT1/LMP (no changes to these rules), GTP (no changes to these rules). If it ain't broke don't fix it!
 

 

I attempted to come run MySeries event's with other Georgia racer's on three different occasions when they were racing at Jacksonville. Each time I looked at the rules and my head started spinning, then I realized how much money it cost to build 5 different cars with different motors and gave up.

 

I'm confused, you said "we should tweak the My Series rule set" then followed it with "no changes to these rules" behind every class. So do want to change the rules or just limit the classes?

 

The OSS series has turned out better then anyone imagined up here and we thank all the Florida racer's who come up and participate. With that said, OSS or MySeries. which ever you guys choose I hope it can grow bigger and better for you in 2016.


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#8 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 10:11 AM

Look at the outlaw rules for Nascar. No front axle, no front wheels, no interior, no bumper rules. Last I checked, all Nascars had front axles, front wheels, bumpers and driver & interior. We might as well just mount a wedgie body and go racing!

 

And another thing: One motor for all car classes. Crap. I am getting sick of running the JK Retro Hawk in everything.  I like some variety in the various car classes, especially in the motor department.


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Doc Dougherty
GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
My Series Spring 2016 4" NASCAR, JK LMP State Champion, and Endurance State Champion
My Series 2015 4" NASCAR, GTP and Endurance State Champion
​GRRR 2015 4 1/2" and F1 Champion
​GRRR 2013 & 2014 Evil Flexi Champion
1968 Cleveland Car Model Series race winner - Tom Thumb Raceway, North Royalton, Ohio
​1968 Hinsdale ARCO Amateur runner-up
1967 Parma Raceway Indy 500 Champion

#9 Ralph Thorne

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 10:13 AM

Look at the outlaw rules for Nascar. No front axle, no front wheels, no interior, no bumper rules. Last I checked, all Nascars had front axles, front wheels, bumpers and driver & interior. We might as well just mount a wedgie body and go racing!

 

Well actually that was our goal...just mount a Nascar body and go racing! I subscribed to the KISS theory, and it seems to be working.


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#10 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 10:19 AM

Well Ralph, lets make even more simple. Have a manufacturer mold up a wedgie body and run it in all car classes.


Doc Dougherty
GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
My Series Spring 2016 4" NASCAR, JK LMP State Champion, and Endurance State Champion
My Series 2015 4" NASCAR, GTP and Endurance State Champion
​GRRR 2015 4 1/2" and F1 Champion
​GRRR 2013 & 2014 Evil Flexi Champion
1968 Cleveland Car Model Series race winner - Tom Thumb Raceway, North Royalton, Ohio
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1967 Parma Raceway Indy 500 Champion

#11 Ralph Thorne

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 10:30 AM

Well Ralph, lets make even more simple. Have a manufacturer mold up a wedgie body and run it in all car classes.

 

Actually if all or any of the local raceway's around here ran Wedge bodies I would have made that a class. However they don't, but they ALL do run either Nascar, GTP or Can-Am and some run all three. I think that's what helps make it so successful. Hard to argue with 175 entries after just 2 events.

 

I'm not trying to bash the MySeries in anyway, but I think it has one of two problems, or maybe both. Too complicated of a rule set or there's just no flexi racer's in the state of Florida?


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#12 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 10:51 AM

Look at the outlaw rules for Nascar. No front axle, no front wheels, no interior, no bumper rules. Last I checked, all Nascars had front axles, front wheels, bumpers and driver & interior. We might as well just mount a wedgie body and go racing!

 

And another thing: One motor for all car classes. Crap. I am getting sick of running the JK Retro Hawk in everything.  I like some variety in the various car classes, especially in the motor department.

 

Seems to me, that the MYS is an awful lot of $ for a new person, or visitor...I know this all too well, cost me a couple thousand.

 

If I've heard the past history correctly, the FK sealed can motor was introduced in MYS because some felt motor work was too much to deal with and unfair for newbies.

 

Complex rules - scare off new potential racers.  Growth on Thursday nights in Melbourne proves simple works!

 

How bout it?

 

Do you have a flexi? (stamped steel, alum pans ok)

Does it have a class representative body? (no home made wooden or playing card bodies lol)

RH Motor (the equalizer)

.050 rear clearance

64 or 48 pitch gears

Wanna go fast?

 

Let's Race!  Tech for weight, height, bumpers, fronts, rears, etc...takes up valuable racing time!

 

Tracks in Florida get a pop in their sales the month either GRRR or MYS shows up - but they don't base their business model around them.

 

This is 2015.  Soon the calendar changes and a new 2016 race season begins.  In life, everything always changes.


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#13 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 10:56 AM

Ralph, your car count is awesome. I am jealous actually. I wish you guys the best of slot racing. I wish that I was closer.

 

However, what you said in post #7 is not correct. GRRR has been racing with the same ruleset (IRRA) as the SE was for more than 5 years and there have been many races in Jax. I don't recall ever seeing you there.  I know that when a person has a job, its difficult to travel out of state.

 

Another point that I would like to make is that Florida has only 4 active tracks (well almost 4). Got to get Ed's track going 100%. Georgia, South Carolina and Alabama have 14 tracks, inclusively. As you pointed out, Florida has a lack of earnest slot car racers, not just flexi car racers but slot car racers in general. My Series is pulling maybe 46 entrants per event. GRRR is pulling maybe 10 per event, where 4 racers run both series.


Doc Dougherty
GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
My Series Spring 2016 4" NASCAR, JK LMP State Champion, and Endurance State Champion
My Series 2015 4" NASCAR, GTP and Endurance State Champion
​GRRR 2015 4 1/2" and F1 Champion
​GRRR 2013 & 2014 Evil Flexi Champion
1968 Cleveland Car Model Series race winner - Tom Thumb Raceway, North Royalton, Ohio
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#14 Michael Rigsby

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 10:57 AM

Anytime I hear the argument about front wheels on a flexi, I almost laugh out loud. Really, a Slick 7 lightweight o ring front wheel that doesnt touch the track serves a function? REALLY?? The sticker wheel looks better in my opinion, and serves just about as much function to the car as the wheels being used now.

Front bumpers and drivers should be a drivers choice. The cars do look better with both, but i have seen some slip through tech at My Series races that shouldn't have been legal.

If you are into motor building, race a Group 12 car. Participation will go up in NASCAR,LMP,and GTP when everyone uses only one reliable motor, and that's the Retro Hawk. GTP motors in My Series got out of hand big time with the intoduction of the Big Dog/Hawk 6 combo. Using one motor in all flexi classes makes it a drivers series, not a money series.

I would much rather race with a group of guys knowing that motors are out of the equation, like GRRR/IRRA racing.

'Nuff said.
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#15 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 11:38 AM

Will someone please add to this discussion when the 2016 series meeting for racers and owners is to be held?

 

We should be organized and have specific issues written down on paper BEFORE the meeting, including a way for proxy votes to count. (ahem, directors?)

 

This thread should be printed and read out loud at the meeting...all sides should be heard.

 

A vote should cost $5-$10 to go in the series fund for prizes...or to help MYS pay for the food at the meeting.

 

It is time to be creative and make changes for this dinosaur sport - too soon for extinction?

 

Why do tracks give $100 each to MYS - eliminate that along with track bucks.  Have each racer contribute $10 for the year's prizes.  There are so many ways to change this thing - and turn it around!   

 

 

BTW - adding a spoiler to a NASCAR or GTP or LMP actually doesn't work I tried it...and Ralph passed me in advance for tech hahaha.  If you think modifying what is already in place on the wall at the slot car shop for an Outlaw car will gain you an advantage, don't forget the motor only revs so fast...racing becomes even more competitive and the simplicity lends itself to newness and growth.  It really comes down to tires, gears, and how well you build the chassis and body.  Rules for confusion are not gonna make the track owners rich.  Some time ago, DOC and I talked about what it would be like to have a big race in Florida - we are almost there.


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#16 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 11:56 AM

So what I see above is that Charlie (who raced with us a few times), Danny (the most awesome slot car racer that I have seen recently), and Ralph (not mind that he never raced with us) want to trash the current My Series format. You want to run two car classes that are identical except for the body. The 3rd class is IRRA Can-Am which we race in GRRR events.

 

I am thinking that those racers who have supported the My Series races that most over the last couple years should have the most number of votes.

 

I need to repeat that the track owners that I have talked to personally think that the outlaw ruleset will destroy flexi racing in Florida.


Doc Dougherty
GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
My Series Spring 2016 4" NASCAR, JK LMP State Champion, and Endurance State Champion
My Series 2015 4" NASCAR, GTP and Endurance State Champion
​GRRR 2015 4 1/2" and F1 Champion
​GRRR 2013 & 2014 Evil Flexi Champion
1968 Cleveland Car Model Series race winner - Tom Thumb Raceway, North Royalton, Ohio
​1968 Hinsdale ARCO Amateur runner-up
1967 Parma Raceway Indy 500 Champion

#17 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 11:56 AM

And of course, we should take up a collection to pay Shirley Harrington to be our race director!  I can still hear her saying, "Clear...Ready...Race!"

 

OK, maybe cost prohibitive. :(


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#18 Danny Zona

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 12:12 PM

Anytime I hear the argument about front wheels on a flexi, I almost laugh out loud. Really, a Slick 7 lightweight o ring front wheel that doesnt touch the track serves a function? REALLY?? The sticker wheel looks better in my opinion, and serves just about as much function to the car as the wheels being used now.

Front bumpers and drivers should be a drivers choice. The cars do look better with both, but i have seen some slip through tech at My Series races that shouldn't have been legal.

If you are into motor building, race a Group 12 car. Participation will go up in NASCAR,LMP,and GTP when everyone uses only one reliable motor, and that's the Retro Hawk. GTP motors in My Series got out of hand big time with the intoduction of the Big Dog/Hawk 6 combo. Using one motor in all flexi classes makes it a drivers series, not a money series.

I would much rather race with a group of guys knowing that motors are out of the equation, like GRRR/IRRA racing.

'Nuff said.


What a great point. Especially the old front wheel argument.

Racers who wedge the nascar bodies won't be as fast. It messes up the balance of the body. Been there tried that.

Also, I've built motors that have won USRA nats, AMSRA nats and even had a motor finish 2nd at an ISRA nats. I would rather race fk sealed style motors any day. I love going to a race and some new racer is just as fast as me because of the fk sealed style motor. The new/rookie racers loves it even more.
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Test, test, test and go test some more.
You're never fast enough!!! 💯

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Be a fountain not a drain.

It's not about being right, it's getting it right.

#19 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 12:14 PM

DOC - read my first post again - trash is not the word - change is needed for growth.  This is a discussion.  Everyone here I bet will agree with me that you are to be commended for your hard work in My Series.  The name is great, and others in the country know MYS is Florida.  What I'm lobbying for is a way for more racers to enjoy what we do.  Go ask the 5.5 racers on Thursday if they would go to a MYS with simple rules.  Go ask the regulars at Fast Eddie's the same.  What I think, or what you think is not the point.

 

I'm the only one here with new ideas???  

 

I will buy 5 bodies each class regardless of the voting and mount them differently for different tracks.  I will have multiple motors for each class too.  And multiple gears and tires...so will others...the cash register will keep ringing.  What's the difference if bumpers, fronts, or interiors?  We are not scale by any stretch of the imagination.  Simple works...

 

Oh ya, what about the racers who get whipped by the fast guys, race after race - what ideas does MYS have in place to encourage them and keep them?  Change is due.


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#20 Danny Zona

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 12:20 PM

So what I see above is that Charlie (who raced with us a few times), Danny (the most awesome slot car racer that I have seen recently), and Ralph (not mind that he never raced with us) want to trash the current My Series format. You want to run two car classes that are identical except for the body. The 3rd class is IRRA Can-Am which we race in GRRR events.
 
I am thinking that those racers who have supported the My Series races that most over the last couple years should have the most number of votes.
 
I need to repeat that the track owners that I have talked to personally think that the outlaw ruleset will destroy flexi racing in Florida.


Not sure how I trashed the My Series! All I said is its not for me anymore. Also said if racers want to run My Series, cool.
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#21 Ralph Thorne

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 12:30 PM

I need to repeat that the track owners that I have talked to personally think that the outlaw ruleset will destroy flexi racing in Florida.

 

 Interesting, the ones I talked to thought the opposite. 

 

I would love hearing their opinion on why it would "destroy flexi racing". Certainly my goal while creating the OSS was not to destroy slot car racing.

 

Once again, your losing racer's because their attending OSS races instead. Must not be that destructive.

 

Respectfully Doc, your on an island all alone on this one. I havent seen, heard of, or talked to a single person who thinks the MS is perfect how it is.....except you.

 

I'm not trying to tell you that you need to run the OSS rules, but I am telling you the MS rules need some help.



#22 Danny Zona

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 12:33 PM

So what I see above is that Charlie (who raced with us a few times), Danny (the most awesome slot car racer that I have seen recently), and Ralph (not mind that he never raced with us) want to trash the current My Series format. You want to run two car classes that are identical except for the body. The 3rd class is IRRA Can-Am which we race in GRRR events.
 
I am thinking that those racers who have supported the My Series races that most over the last couple years should have the most number of votes.
 
I need to repeat that the track owners that I have talked to personally think that the outlaw ruleset will destroy flexi racing in Florida.

I do appreciate the kind words on awesome slot car racer. Lol Thanks, Doc.
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#23 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 12:43 PM

Charlie wrote: "Go ask the 5.5 racers on Thursday if they would go to a MYS with simple rules" ​

 

This is not true. I have talked to the 5.5 racers; very recently in fact. And they said that they would like to race in My Series but did not want to get crashed by the fast guys every time. That is why they race in 5.5 and now 5.0. The rules are not complicated; you just have to read them. When I started in My Series, I was getting lapped constantly. But I kept on improving. It took me about 2 1/2 years to finally win a race. 

 

The series used to have expert and novice driver classes. This idea is being tried in the JK Indy Car class. My Series had a great turn out for the 1st race. I think 11 racers. Next time at P1, we should run the two driver classes as separate races if we have enough racers for each.

 

The more I think about it, to grow the series, we should go back to the expert/novice driver classes. The rules can be different between the two driver classes. JK Retro Hawk motors for the novice guys in Nascar, GT1/LMP, and GTP. In this manner, the expert drivers still have a place to race our Hawk 6's and Hawk 6 BD's.


Doc Dougherty
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#24 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 12:52 PM

Danny, you are are welcome.

 

Ralph: I never said that My Series rules are perfect, so dont you dare put words in my month. I have said above several times that they need to be tweaked; not thrown out entirely. The My Series racer has an investment in Hawk 6 and Hawk 6 BD motors. There should be some transition or other accommodation for these motors.

 

Those drivers who have consistently supported the series and those who want to participate in the future should have a say in these matters.


Doc Dougherty
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#25 Ralph Thorne

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 12:58 PM

I have said above several times that they need to be tweaked; not thrown out entirely.

 

I'll refer to post 7 and ask you again since I never got an answer...

 

You said "we should tweak the My Series rule set" then followed it with "no changes to these rules" behind every class you listed. So do want to change the rules or just limit the classes?

 

If you want to change them, whats your idea?



#26 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 01:10 PM

DOC - I've avoided posting directly to you - no one wins in this discussion, it is for everyone's benefit.  MYS rules are old and outdated in terms of the rest of the country.  Whoever the MYS directors really are, they can make it better for everyone.  No change seems foolish when good ideas are presented.  I totally respect what you do for MYS - but change is good for all.  Losing only a few racers can have a big effect.  Gaining a few more is the right thing to do.

 

Nobody is out to get anybody, or trash anything.  We all want to race!  

 

I got fast sooner than others expected...you guys ain't passing me easily with my blip at the beginning of the straight ever again.

 

Where are fresh ideas?

 

Running MYS w no changes - kinda like doing the same thing expecting a different result?


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#27 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 01:12 PM

As I have stated above,

1) the rules for 4" NASCAR, GT1, and GTP should stay the same.

2) bring in the JK Indy car class.

3) eliminate Group F and Group 12. (sorry Jeff)

 

That is four flexi car classes.

 

Re-install the expert and novice driver classes in all car classes. Run them off separately if we have enough racers. Podium plaques and pics for both Novice and Expert. Promote as such.  This will give the beginner a place to start and not blown away.

 

Possibly for the novice car classes, only allow the retro hawk motor in NASCAR and GT1 and only the Hawk 7 in GTP.  BTW: The Hawk 7 is in the JK Indy car.

 

We can dump the front axle and o ring tires, but must have front tire decal instead.


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#28 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 01:22 PM

Charlie: the fresh ideas are to reinstate the two driver classes and add the JK Indy car class.

 

You have gotten very fast in a very short period of time. Your example kind of goes against those who dont want to race in Myseries because they will get crushed. Well, you have proven that it might take only a few months to get competitive. I take my hat off to you. 

 

As I said above, I figured that it would take me a long time to be competitive; I was good with it. I practiced, practiced, and practiced some more. And did this in My Series and GRRR. Many others want to win out of the box. I don't think that this is reasonable. However, we still need to find a way to get more local racers involved in My Series. The Novice driver class might help us a lot.


Doc Dougherty
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#29 Half Fast

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 01:26 PM


I need to repeat that the track owners that I have talked to personally think that the outlaw ruleset will destroy flexi racing in Florida.

 

Why is that?

 

Cheers


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#30 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 01:47 PM

As I have stated above,

1) the rules for 4" NASCAR, GT1, and GTP should stay the same.

2) bring in the JK Indy car class.

3) eliminate Group F and Group 12. (sorry Jeff)

 

That is four flexi car classes.

 

Re-install the expert and novice driver classes in all car classes. Run them off separately if we have enough racers. Podium plaques and pics for both Novice and Expert. Promote as such.  This will give the beginner a place to start and not blown away.

 

Possibly for the novice car classes, only allow the retro hawk motor in NASCAR and GT1 and only the Hawk 7 in GTP.  BTW: The Hawk 7 is in the JK Indy car.

 

We can dump the front axle and o ring tires, but must have front tire decal instead.

 

This only makes for more confusion...and more rules.  And another set of tires if u don't run retro.  And another car purchase.  And so on... :heat:

 

No fronts?  DOC?   :laugh2:  :good:​ 

 

Novice and expert are not a big thing...winning a B Main is still winning.  What is a C Main?  I have to travel out of the state of Florida to find out...

 

"If we have enough racers" should be the exception, not the norm.  Growing the program should be the number 1 goal of MYS.

 

I recently heard a wise experienced racer say, "I didn't work on my cars since the last race, but I bet out of 25 racers I will find someone to race against for 80-100 laps today."  Thanks JC Martin for that lesson!


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#31 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 02:13 PM

Charlie wrote: "No fronts?  DOC?"  OK, I am guilty of compromising. :)

​​


Doc Dougherty
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My Series Spring 2016 4" NASCAR, JK LMP State Champion, and Endurance State Champion
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#32 tonyp

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 03:43 PM

So it's a my series for motorcycles? You guys can't run at Greg's without fronts can you?

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#33 Danny Zona

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 03:53 PM

So it's a my series for motorcycles? You guys can't run at Greg's without fronts can you?

The flexis do have front wheels but do not touch the track or look like front wheels.

Because of this, there is a .050 front chassi clearance rule at Greg's aka holly hell track.
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#34 tonyp

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 03:56 PM

Got it. Thanks.

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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#35 Biscuit

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 07:01 PM

Lets say someone was to walk into a slotcar track and wants to buy a car. Assuming they intend to race, they most likely will buy a car they can race at that track. The key at this point (local level) is inexpensiveness and keeping the rules simple. 

That being said, can you realistically expect anyone new to the hobby or even the average local racer to invest the money in motors to start racing at the state level with myseries motor rules? I seen the gtp entries evaporate as motor expense rose. I remember in fldiv2 gtp was the biggest class. No am and ex just 1 class and a cheap motor. At the state level you are ready to compete no need for experience ratings, we dont even have enough racers showing up to myseries to do that anyways. 

No need for motor builders to flex muscles the retro hawk motors provide great racing at an even greater price, and the ability to run multiple classes with a motor that cheap is a great idea. Focus on setup bodies tires ect. not the most $ motor program. Ask Charlie, everyone has a chance, even the new racers at tracks they have never seen before. 

In Florida if you run every Myseries and every Grrr race that is 22 weekends out of the year. At what point are these racers expected to support their local programs and help them grow? They are probably broke from all the travel expenses alone. Too many races with not enough racers has helped kill things even a little more. In the last couple months i have spent a few hours on the phone with track owners of Florida past and present. From what i heard they seem to agree with what i see on here and how i feel personally. Some sort of change is needed. 

My simple but not simple solution- cheap rules that are friendly for the new racer(outlaw), less state racing and focus on supporting the local tracks and growing the local programs, then in turn the 5ish state races a year will be greatly anticipated and more heavily attended. Ralph has the master plan for a race id say will be the biggest scale race by avg class entries not just in the south but in the entire country, I just think Florida needs to fall in line with what is working and help build a simple and standard set of rules.


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#36 Jay Guard

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 09:10 PM

Although I personally agree with most all of the points brought forward by Danny/Charlie/Mike B. I feel that we really need to have a constructive sit down meeting(s) with as many of the racers/track owners as possible and try to find a compromise that will work.  I know Ralph Thorne very well and I believe that he would be willing to compromise somewhat to bring all of the Southeast into a common rule set. Also, Mike B. has a great point about new racers and weekly racing and I think as Mike does that weekly racing has to be looked at somewhat differently.

 

BUT...The bigger question here is do we do what works individually for an individual raceway/small group or do we look at the bigger picture and realize that commercial slot car racing is on VERY precarious ground in the Southeast.  We ALL need to stand UNITED or we will eventually ALL fail to have a place to race.


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#37 Danny Zona

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 09:43 PM

Im pretty sure Greg Walker is planning on a meeting soon. Maybe next month. Hopefully he can chime in and set a date.
Test, test, test and go test some more.
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Be a fountain not a drain.

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#38 Michael Jr.

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 10:08 PM

This is 2015.  Soon the calendar changes and a new 2016 race season begins.  In life, everything always changes.[/quote]

How providential. I was just asking about the 2016 race series.
What races are there coming up? I'm looking to bring em to Inman!

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#39 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 10:23 PM

I know some Florida boys that will be wearing their Outlaw shirts when they visit Upstate Speedway soon...we can hardly wait!


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#40 Michael Jr.

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 10:27 PM

We'll make it a photo op. Plan to race ya till you don't wanna race no more! Lol
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#41 Wizard Of Iz

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 10:30 PM

DOC - I've avoided posting directly to you - no one wins in this discussion, it is for everyone's benefit.  MYS rules are old and outdated in terms of the rest of the country.  Whoever the MYS directors really are, they can make it better for everyone.  No change seems foolish when good ideas are presented.  I totally respect what you do for MYS - but change is good for all.  Losing only a few racers can have a big effect.  Gaining a few more is the right thing to do.

 

Nobody is out to get anybody, or trash anything.  We all want to race!  

 

I got fast sooner than others expected...you guys ain't passing me easily with my blip at the beginning of the straight ever again.

 

Where are fresh ideas?

 

Running MYS w no changes - kinda like doing the same thing expecting a different result?

 

 

I'm no longer a track owner so I have no more say in this than any other racer ...... but I'm not smart enough to not reply either.  Maybe it's the sinus meds.

 

Charlie ..... Please don't act like you don't know who the Series "directors" are.  They're listed in the Guidelines.  And I think Bill, Marcus and I attended more races than we missed.

 

Quick history lesson ..... My Series was started by a group of track owners (primarily Greg Walker and Buddy Houser) back in 2007 after two instances of Florida Division 2 officials mishandling the money.  (And I'm being kind.)  This was the ninth year and every penny has been accounted for thanks to Greg's work as treasurer.  

 

The track owners set the original classes back in 2007 and set the Series up so that future classes and rule changes would be determined by allowing the Competition Committee (one racer from each track) to make recommendations to the track owners.  The owners and committee members get together about this time of year (though last year got away from us), talk about the proposals, take a vote by the owners and go racing.  There have been a lot of changes since 2007 so I imagine that owners will be open to an honest conversation.  

 

Track owners and racers in Florida seem to understand that they absolutely, positively need each other.  It was setup this way to avoid having one clique get a bunch of guys to show up and vote a certain way.  It hasn't always been perfect, but it's worked pretty well for nine years.  So, tell your track owner and/or competition committee member what you'd like to see changed.  I think there have been some tweaks to the rules every year so I don't think anyone has ever drawn a line in the sand against changes.


Rollin Isbell
 


#42 Michael Jr.

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 10:45 PM

I'm reading along with interest. While the tension seems bad, its the result of a growing desire for some uniformity. Legacy series have helped keep Slot Car racing alive regionally. But with greater mobility and tracks spread out, racers and owners alike are hoping for the sort of uniformity that allows for massing racers in different Race events. So keep the dialog, work through the tension, avoid personal attacks, recognize the years many have invested in good racing programs and lets evolve together.

Michael Cannon Jr


#43 Mr. M

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 11:26 PM

This discussion reminds me of when I subbed for Bill Pinch at one of the USRA rule meetings in the early 1980's. The discussion was if the front wheels should touch and roll. The building consensus was to not require this. As you would expect, it was quite a discussion. Paul Pfeiffer was strongly opposed and offered that this would change slot racing forever. At the time, I did not see his wisdom, but I believe he was right. In the end, the change was made to not require this. Although subtle, this in my opinion, over time did have a negative impact. The point is, rule changes can have long lasting impacts, maybe negatively. Tread carefully here. Use the wisdom of the track owners wisely, their very existence depends on retaining their very thin base business.

Chris
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#44 tonyp

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Posted 30 September 2015 - 09:57 AM

If you want to grow the racing, you need rules where new people can come into the raceway, buy a flexi out of the show case and be able to race it with out spending hours working on it. You need a class or classes where you leave your car in your truck and can show up and race. I honestly don't race flexi because they are more work then retro. Also a state like Florida is so big you have to concentrate on local racing and limit the number of "big races". The more big races the less money and time is left for local programs. BIsquit nailed this on the head. No local programs, no new racers.
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#45 Wizard Of Iz

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Posted 30 September 2015 - 10:58 AM

If you want to grow the racing, you need rules where new people can come into the raceway, buy a flexi out of the show case and be able to race it with out spending hours working on it. You need a class or classes where you leave your car in your truck and can show up and race. I honestly don't race flexi because they are more work then retro. Also a state like Florida is so big you have to concentrate on local racing and limit the number of "big races". The more big races the less money and time is left for local programs. BIsquit nailed this on the head. No local programs, no new racers.

 

You, sir, are correct.  I agree that the closer the class is to what comes out of the display case, the easier it is to race.  The closest thing to this that I know of is the GT1/LMP class at P1. 

 

But I'm not sure that most guys that travel to race toy cars are also willing to race a RTR.  We "borrowed" an idea from Phil's Hobby Shop and always had a Ready-To-Race car in the case that was built to the specs for each class we ran.  We sold them for the price of the parts plus about $10 for assembling the parts.  And, we saw more than one of those cars come out of the case and win.  This made it easy for guys to quickly be competitive.  We even maintained cars for more than one racer so they just had to show up and race.

 

Local racing programs will only feed a Series if the classes are the same in each.  We could not have survived hosting just one big race each year.  Hosting three My Series races (two races plus one enduro) plus two GRRR races each year helped keep the doors open in a BIG way.  We had a fairly strong local racing program, but the idea that the Series was coming to town gave guys a reason to buy new parts or at least freshen up their existing cars.


Rollin Isbell
 


#46 Half Fast

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Posted 30 September 2015 - 12:58 PM

 

 

But I'm not sure that most guys that travel to race toy cars are also willing to race a RTR.  We "borrowed" an idea from Phil's Hobby Shop and always had a Ready-To-Race car in the case that was built to the specs for each class we ran.  We sold them for the price of the parts plus about $10 for assembling the parts.  

 

And, we saw more than one of those cars come out of the case and win.  This made it easy for guys to quickly be competitive.  We even maintained cars for more than one racer so they just had to show up and race.

 

 

 

Two very good ideas both for the racers and the shop owner! :good:

 

Cheers


Bill Botjer

Faster then, wiser now

 

 


#47 Bill Pinch

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Posted 30 September 2015 - 01:58 PM

FACINATING! 

 

The comments are numerous and interesting and  contributed by a limited number of ACTIVE racers (God bless you guys!).  As a Florida track owner, I am certainly more than passively interested.  

 

As a MY SERIES director for the past 7 years, I assure you I am very interested in the stability of our traveling series (MY SERIES and GRRR) as well as my local programs. 

 

MY SERIES 2015 has been a very encouraging year.  Car counts were up virtually everywhere and the end-of-year Enduro Season looks like it will be better attended than 2014. 

 

MY SERIES, thanks to Greg Walker, was established as a legal entity and cannot be easily changed.  As mentioned by Rollin,  rules/guidelines changes are voted on by the Raceway Owners with input from racers, though the racers don't have a vote.  My experience (33 years in the business) tells me this is the best way to do this as racer-run series are less stable and generally directionless other than to push things in the direction of just going faster (anyone remember CART?).

 

The discussion here is not how are we going to change FLORIDA MY SERIES. FLORIDA MY SERIES will continue in 2016 (with some changes from 2015 no doubt).  The discussion is:  will a third traveling series be added as a choice for Florida's slot car community?  As Danny Z mentioned, he prefers another series.  That's OK!  He knows I would shake his hand, pat him on the back, wish him well and give him a big THANK YOU for all the support he has provided to dozens of raceways and help he has provided to any racer who asked during the 20-plus years I've known him.

 

OSS(?) is available already in Georgia and the Carolinas - that's good!  Florida racers are certainly free to travel and participate and I'll do all I can to provided parts & pieces to enhance their racing programs.  If the effort is made to expand OSS to Florida, I won't discourage that.  The racers (the market) will decide whether or not ALL THREE (OSS, GRRR, MY SERIES) series can be supported. After the year FLORIDA MY SERIES had/is having, it would be a shame to see the increased racer-base be diluted, but that's all part of this business! 

 

Where ever and whatever you race, best of luck and HAVE FUN!  A big THANK YOU to all the racers who have supported The Raceway for all these years!  I look forward to seeing some of you at our Anniversary Party on 10/17/15 and even more of you as we venture into 2016. 

  

- BILL -



#48 Danny Zona

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Posted 30 September 2015 - 07:13 PM

I've had a change of heart. It happens. Lol. I will run My Series next year. I love racing too much. I obviously don't agree with certain rules but will take the high road. I felt I need to support FL.

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I'll concentrate on running the motor building classes. Once the meeting is over and I know 100% sure what motors will be used its rebuild time. I'll send out arms to be balanced and reconditioned. Zap and match a couple magnets. Straighten cans. Install ball bearing in motors that allow it. Tweak the oilites in motors that require them. Straighten brush hoods. Set air gaps. Tweak springs. Tweak and cut brushes. I get to test my motor building skills next year.


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#49 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 30 September 2015 - 07:28 PM

Danny, very impressive; that effort and other things is why you are such a great slot car racer.

 

I wanted to point out that for those who have supported My Series over the last 2 or 3 years, if we went with the Outlaw rules, 67% of our motors are trash. Simply does not make common sense to me.

 

Another point: just because rules are more simply will NOT bring in new racers, because those racers that I talked to are intimadated by the top racers in My Series. This is where the novice driver class will help bringing in new racers, along with RTR car classes.


Doc Dougherty
GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
My Series Spring 2016 4" NASCAR, JK LMP State Champion, and Endurance State Champion
My Series 2015 4" NASCAR, GTP and Endurance State Champion
​GRRR 2015 4 1/2" and F1 Champion
​GRRR 2013 & 2014 Evil Flexi Champion
1968 Cleveland Car Model Series race winner - Tom Thumb Raceway, North Royalton, Ohio
​1968 Hinsdale ARCO Amateur runner-up
1967 Parma Raceway Indy 500 Champion

#50 Biscuit

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 04:05 AM

I would like to start by saying i have been an active 1/24 Florida slot car racer on the state level for the past 15 years or so. Im also one of the few Florida racers who have ventured outside our state boundaries to see how racing in other places compares to the way we do it here. An out of state racer on this thread summed up what every out of state racer i have talked to has said about our rules. Not saying this as a way to get out of state racers to come here and race, but maybe as a way to compare Florida as a state to what others are doing and what may be working. 

 

Another series hurting Florida? Its so over saturated already why stop now? 22 races supported by a very small group between the 2 makes a whole ton of sense to me. Fuel companies love it though. Local racing programs not so much.

 

Like Rollin said, you have to base a series off of what the tracks are running. It is my understanding as of right now this isnt really happening. This question is for Bill and Doc. If a person was to walk into your track Bill and wants to race nascar, would they be more likely to buy a car with a $13 motor or a $50 motor that wont be competitive with what myself or danny has??? Even crazier, why does it make sense to push a $60 motor for gtp that you know will never gain traction at the local level?? Killed the class if you ask me, nobody can afford a $60 motor only to realize it isnt fast and they need another $60 motor. Guess what they still arent fast enough, now what? Make it affordable, that is the key to getting entries and retaining them. People wanna save a couple $ on tires to not run the best but want to break the bank on motors? Not. Since i started racing gtp has always been an affordable class, until now. Go figure entries are at an all time LOW. If motors become obsolete so be it. Unfortunately it happens in racing. When you realize you made a wrong turn do you keep going aimlessly or do you turn around and cut your losses?

 

Wake up and ask the racers what they want. Wasnt that what MYSERIES was supposed to be about?? Just sayin...


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