245 replies to this topic

[Wizard Of Iz]

My personal interpretation of the current guidelines is that the Mossetti would be legal in NASCAR and GTP  as long as it's available through Crawley, Eagle, and/or ERI distributors. Just like the existing (I guess it's still in production?) Mossetti Titan is legal.  I think I read that the original timeline was to have it available to distributors in October.  Lots of challenges in bringing new parts to market.

 

The GT1/LMP class has remained a spec class after JK's original three (?) year sponsorship ended because racers support the class so well.  Some - maybe a lot - of racers seem to enjoy seeing how they fare when everyone is running virtually identical equipment.  There are other classes for creativity.

 

"Commercial Availability" is a whole 'nother can of worms.

 

The new Mossetti looks like an intriguing design --- but not overly revolutionary.  Certainly not the jump in chassis evolution that the Cheetah 11 represented over the Champion Turbo Flex or Cheetah 7 (which I still think could be tweaked to be an awesome chassis.) Hopefully the new Mossetti will take a hit.

 

A few years back it looked like there was going to be a tweaked version of the Kelly/Pro Slot chassis that testing showed to be very promising.  Sadly, it never got to market.

 

And The Rigsby hit the nail on the head ..... flexi-based slot car racing would be virtually dead without JK's contributions over the past 8 or 9 years. Very few racers had ever considered using an FK-style motor before Jerry pushed the Falcon motor to the masses.  And the Cheetah 11 chassis made good drivers more competitive because it handles so much better than the old Champion Turbo Flex.  Made for much better racing.

 

Hopefully when the day comes that Jerry retires or sells (we all hang it up eventually), the company will pass into the hands of someone who has an equal passion for the hobby.  

 

I can tell you this .... if JK just went away ..... it would leave a helluva void in the hobby.

[DOCinCanton]

Excellent post, Rollin.

[Biscuit]

Something that needs clearing up... just because a certain distributor chooses not to carry a certain manufacturer, it doesn't mean you can't obtain these products. Why are outisight bodies banned in fl when they are commercially available?? jk EARNED the motor market with a great product. His chassis is a great chassis and has that market under control. By the way the kelly chassis was released with new metal and is a good chassis. Tires? BODIES????? C'mon... jk has their time in the sun there is no reason to force inferior stuff, just because. No race prizes and no sponsorship. What a deal!!!!! Gt1 has the best body choices out there and you want to limit to just JK?? lol ok... Tires too, no reason for it at all its being pushed by people who run JK stuff thats all. JK rules stem from personal agendas. Its kind of an anti Kelly racing rule to offset what some have worked very hard to earn. There are many types of jk tires but only 1 kelly retro and it's a rule to force more money being spent in a way. Just 1 class is enough to make people carry all jk tires unfortunately since in their mind its cheapest and most interchangeable. JK hasn't earned the tire or body market here they just had it placed in their lap.  

[Biscuit]

Like it or hate it those are the FACTS. How can you tell if people are actually running jk rubber and not just jk hub? Can any manufacturer sponsor a class in a similar way(free) and obtain rights to exclusive tire and body rules? If you want to make a body and tire rule lets not pick the same manufacturer that seems to be cleaning house with motors and chassis. It's nuts when you think about it. 

[Tampabay racer]

Doc,
Why are you so against the idea of the outlaw series? If you don't like the rules don't participate in it. What could be so bad from a racers standpoint? I see no problems with more than 2 racing programs in FL, as long as the outlaw don't schedule a race on the same weekend as any other series. Let the racers race what series or all if they wish. More opportunities to get slot racing out there. Kind of like the thing if you build it they will come.

[DOCinCanton]

Brian,

First of all, I will participate in the 2016 MySeries no matter what the directors decide to do. The directors have taken in comments from the racers here in this thread and at the P1 race.  If the directors decide to go with OSS rules, I will race to those rules. Plain and simple.  Furthermore, I think that it is important for the racers to support their local raceways. If the raceways close, we will have no where to race.  We have been going on with only 4 raceways for a couple of years now.

 

As far as the Outlaw rules are concerned, I strongly prefer the 4" NASCAR to look like a NASCAR, including the interior and the bumpers.

 

As far as another series being organized according to the Outlaw rules, that is fine with me. Given the MySeries races and the GRRR races, I have plenty of racing to keep me satisfied.

[DOCinCanton]

Yes, a few things need to be cleared up. Post #203 is factually incorrect. A specific item is not allowed in MySeries if all three distributors listed above in another post by Rollin is not available. So, if a manufacturer decides to not sell his product through the listed distributors, its not allowed in MySeries.

 

Also, I think that way too much is being made of the GT1/LMP class being a JK spec class. Rollin stated it above better than I can. For the record, I have raced Kelly bodies and tires (I love the Retro tire), Koford, and Alpha tires, and other components in MySeries for the last 5 years in 4" NASCAR and GTP.  Furthermore, there is NO secret agenda. Everybody in Florida should know that Bill paints bodies for JK. It's not a secret. Bill has the best stock available at his race track. He has something like 7 different tire manufacturers, many different bodies, guide flags, axles, etc. etc.  etc. Bill has the best stock available for us racers of any track in Florida. It's a FACT.

[Wizard Of Iz]

I think SCR&H in Jacksonville is (was) the only raceway I ever visited that only stocked one brand of tires.  Johnny and I did that as a business decision .... nothing against Kelly, Pro-Track, Alpha, Koford, Parma, or any other tire manufacturer.  

 

From back when Buddy owned the track; we knew the JK tires worked well on that track and were nearly always true coming out of the tube.  Money-wise, we made the choice to stock JK's in a wide variety of diameters, hub size, treated and non-treated because we simply couldn't afford to stock multiple sizes from multiple brands.

 

We ordered from at least two of the three major distributors every week and  gladly ordered other manufacturer's tires for racers on a fairly regular basis.  All they had to do was ask.  Sometimes it took just a few days and other times it took a few weeks to find a distributor that had what they wanted.

 

 

We had a pretty well-stocked parts wall.  But whether we're talking about bodies or tires or any other part .... it's very frustrating to not be able to get particular products to sell from ANY of the three distributors for months at a time.  

 

I can't speak for every track owner, but since Johnny and I both worked side-jobs, we didn't have time to place individual orders with each of more than a dozen manufacturers.  And I can imagine the reaction I would get if I called and ordered just ONE of something.  Sure wouldn't have qualified for free shipping.

[Biscuit]

Outisight bodies are banned because of an issue with distributors, yet jk sells direct to racers and is the spec tire and body of choice. Isn't it kind of the same thing?? Not to mention Id rather cut out the middle man on my bodies if I had the choice, a whole lot better percentage to get a nice uncrunched body.  

 

No way to police what kind of rubber on jk hubs because there is better out there. Many people mount their own doughnuts just another rule for some to work around. Good luck tech man.

 

Bumper rules won't effect me as much as the new racer. Now that you made it cheap be ready for more new racers hopefully they don't get bounced from tech because their front bumper is 1/16 too thin. 

 

At least things are headed in right direction with motors it seems and that is most important. 

[DOCinCanton]

One point that has been discussed by many of the MySeries racers is that why now after 7 to 8 years of having a bumper rule for the 4" NASCAR bodies is the bumper rule such a bad thing. We have run all these years without any controversy concerning the bumpers. So why now?

 

Another point is that it is the responsibility of the racer to present a LEGAL car to the tech inspector. If the racer cant tell the difference between 1/16" and an 1/8", that racer needs to get some help in trimming the body.

 

About racers mounting their own rubber on JK plastic hubs: sometimes it is very difficult to catch the cheaters.

[Tampabay racer]

O/S bodies are banned from the my series? Wow sounds like someone has a issue with Ron. Might as well call it JKFL slotcar group.

[DOCinCanton]

It is my understanding that OS bodies are not readily & commercially available through the distributors. This issue has been talked about for several years now. This principle of being able to get parts through the distributors is one of the founding objectives of the Florida MySeries. No one has anything against Hershman on this matter. All Hershman needs to do is to simply market his products through the distributors. Its all on Hershman.  I have a ton of OS bodies. I wish that I could use them.  OS was not the only company with this issue.

 

Since JK and Parma bodies are readily and commercially available through the distributors, they are on the approved body list.​

 

Another objective of the distributors rule is an attempt to prevent a racer from getting special parts that no one else can get. Doesn't work all the time, but that's the idea.

[Biscuit]

I know of a racer getting ready for a retro race who needs to order some jk parts but no distributor has it. No worries, order straight through JK website problem solved!! If you can go straight to the manufacturer then why does it matter which distributor has it or doesn't have it? You can skip the whole distributors 10% cut that is taking cookies from an already empty cookie jar. Every company should advertise direct on their websites and just skip over the track and its 40% as well.  In someones words just above mine weren't you trying to eliminate going straight to manufacturer with fear of special parts?? Id be more worried about keeping the tracks making that 40% and maybe 50% markup and keep the doors open. Sounds like JK needs banned not outisight redfox kelly etc. lol. Just sayin... 

[Biscuit]

This isn't a big enough industry to ban anyone in my opinion. I see online race reports of people running stuff all over the country that apparently doesn't exist and isn't available lol. I just don't understand...

[Danny Zona]

I ordered from JK last week. My track didn't have the parts because distributor didn't have it in stock. But the JK online store did.

Pretty cool I was able to skip the distributor and track owner(sarcasm).

[MSwiss]

Sounds like a distributor problem, not a JK one.

 

I guarantee JK is not holding back on shipping to their distributor(s) so they can go through the extra labor of shipping small orders to individuals.

[MSwiss]

Biscuit, on 22 Oct 2015 - 3:09 PM, said:

 Sounds like JK needs banned not outisight redfox kelly etc. lol. Just sayin... 

What a silly statemement.... even with an LOL.

 

JK has been the godsend of the raceways.

 

His products are always available, with a minimal effort by the raceways, to get them.

 

Certainly not the case with the other products you cite.

 

Having to order direct, sometimes prepay, etc.

 

If there wasn't issues with them, it wouldn't be an issue.

[Danny Zona]

I'm not against JK. I like JK products a lot. Biscuit and I were the first racers to use the JKC7 down here when most used turbo flexis back in the day.

I guess FL has way more problems getting other products besides JK then raceways I've been to outside of FL. Maybe the out of town raceways I went to had old stock.

That being said, we might as well make all our classes we run strictly JK products. Everything! Get it over with. A racer can't change anything on the car. Even the front axle for the front wheels has to be JK, guide spacers JK, bullet proof JK, tape on bodies JK and etc. Hopefully JK produces solder, paint and we have to use it as well to be legal. Makes the most sense to me. IMO.

[Biscuit]

Sorry mike i made the statement that based on myseries rules that jk would be banned alongside all the others. If they don't have to go through distributor why does everyone else? Doesn't seem fair to me.

 

4 classes in Florida. 2 are completely jk spec everything. In the other 2 its jk motor and only jk or parma body. Most likely jk chassis, and since you have to run jk tire in 2 classes and they have 8 realistic choices to choose from many just run them in all the classes. 

 

Did anyone else ever think gt1 class grew because of CHEAP MOTORS and cool bodies, not all the other jk stuff? Interesting concept i know...

[Biscuit]

Yes jk stuff is easily available. Worst case scenario a track can't get something, the racer has to go to the manufacturer. You say that's kelly redfox outisight? Sounds like it's jk too since you can go right on their website and order whatever you want. Again i ask why are all others banned and jk worshiped? I really am curious. 

[MSwiss]

The point is the raceway can easily get JK, so unless the racer wants to go out of his way, to NOT support his raceway, he has no reason to order direct from them.

JK doesn't offer the products at a better price.

Being able to get it direct isn't the same as having to get it direct.

[CoastalAngler1]

The previous posts stated the jk parts were not carried by distributor...hence required direct purchase from jk site.  

 

Trust me, said racer is loyal, all I do to copycat the pros - ask what parts you-know-who buys and the answer is usually "Oh yes, we special order all the time for him."  I know some guys who buy stuff in front of folks and use something different on race day. Nice try...  

 

I heard Sonic drag gears are working well in MYS enduro cars. 

 

As small as this shrinking industry is...It is a shame that slot car manufacturers are outlawed in MYS.  This, is most curious...

[Arne Saknussem]

Again, I congratulate all you guys for a very mannerly discussion.

 

However... I feel I should point out that some of the arguments put forward in favor of this or that are becoming illogical.

 

Best to all.

[tonyp]

My series is run by the raceways. They do all the work. They wrote the rules and yes it is designed so they can sell the product to the racers to compete. Bodies they banned have not been available for a year through distributors. The series is intended to keep people racing and raceways selling product so they stay in business. No raceways no racing.

If anyone wants to start and outlaw series in Florida, step up and do it. From what I see mysteries is what it is and is what the track owners want as do everyone I met at the rules meeting.

If you want an outlaw series set it up, appoint someone to run the races and be in charge and I would imagine the raceways would allow you to hold races at their tracks. Take this route instead of trying to change something that is not going to change.

Instead of complaining, put that energy into setting up a series you want.

[Biscuit]

I agree. There is still no logical answer in relation to the myseries RULEBOOK as to why every manufacturer not named jk is banned. If it is a rule for one it is a rule for all. Regardless of intent, the rule clearly states one thing and the series chooses to do another. You make the smaller manufacturers go through distributor but let the all mighty jk sell direct??

 

Rules are rules. Im not interested in the feel good story of jk being there for slot car racing there was a long period where there was very little jk on the wall. If you make a good product it will sell, I run jk chassis and have pushed for retro hawk motors on this forum. Why? Because it makes sense. But half the classes jk spec? Looks like jk=walmart and we don't even have the choice to support the little guy. Like brian and danny both said why stop here lets make it all jk and put every slot car company out of business. If everyone did it like Florida that's what would happen...