46 replies to this topic

[Race O' Rama]

Why do I carry parts in my store when there are race shops (and you know who you are) are selling on ebay for less then retail cost when people come into my store and see my prices which are 40% over wholesale, (which is the suggested retail) and that price doesn't even cover my overhead costs, obviously you guys who are doing this, are ruining the hobby and also putting shops out of business that are trying to be a legit business, there are also others who use to have a race shop and still have their distributorship, when they don't even have a commercial track or a commercial building anymore, also their are club tracks which also somehow have distributorships also, COME ON PEOPLE CAN'T YOU SEE WHAT YOUR DOING? The rest of us who put our heart & soul & MONEY into our COMMERCIAL slot car BUSINESSES are trying to survive and have good race programs to support our race shops, but when this stuff goes on like it does and guys catch wind of the prices on the internet (which has no overhead), they would rather wait to get their stuff cheap, then get it now. It is obvious that no one read all the fine print when they signed the agreement to become a distributor, so put yourselves in our shoes just for a little while, have a good race program and don't kill our race shops that are struggling to make ends meet because of what your doing. ENOUGH SAID!!!

[Race O' Rama]

REMEMBER THIS: support your local race shop, otherwise they won't be there when you want to race.

[Bill from NH]

Karl, I haven't had a local commercial raceway available to me since August, 2010, but i don't buy off the internet either. I usually am on eBay daily to look around & update Slotblog's eBay forum. I'm primarily looking at items not sold in a commercial raceway, but admit I haven't noticed all the discounted parts you mention above. What I do see are parts selling at normal track prices, plus postage. These include the likes of Ken O. You may be speaking of HO & 1/32 cars, you didn't say, but my comments mainly apply to 1/24.

[racie35]

If you buy nothing at all off the internet ever, I'll listen to you. That said, are you really expecting people to pay more because you have overhead and expenses? They won't, but carry what they wear out while there and what's trending and they may.
Hide the intent of your rant above from your conversations while they're around too, and offer help with a smile and you'll get further.
People will never do what you tell them to do.

[Pablo]

there are race shops selling on ebay for less then retail cost

 

I agree with you, Karl, that it's wrong for distributors to sell to non-raceways.

But I can't think of a single raceway selling on eBay for "less than retail".

Can you name some? Send me a PM if you want.

I know there are non-raceway eBay sellers, but that's not what you said. 

[Race O' Rama]

Karl, I haven't had a local commercial raceway available to me since August, 2010, but i don't buy off the internet either. I usually am on eBay daily to look around & update Slotblog's eBay forum. I'm primarily looking at items not sold in a commercial raceway, but admit I haven't noticed all the discounted parts you mention above. What I do see are parts selling at normal track prices, plus postage. These include the likes of Ken O. You may be speaking of HO & 1/32 cars, you didn't say, but my comments mainly apply to 1/24.

 

Bill, these are items that are sold in a commercial raceway. OK obviously you don't see what I see, also I am speaking of 1/24 parts.

[Pablo]

If Ken O has a legitimate commercial raceway, it's news to me......

Am I wrong ? Does this raceway have a website ? Is it listed here on Slotblog ?

[Race O' Rama]

If you buy nothing at all off the internet ever, I'll listen to you. That said, are you really expecting people to pay more because you have overhead and expenses? They won't, but carry what they wear out while there and what's trending and they may.
Hide the intent of your rant above from your conversations while they're around too, and offer help with a smile and you'll get further.
People will never do what you tell them to do.

I'm not expecting people to pay more because I have overhead, you missed the point, these shops are selling below retail costs, I always have a smile and do things to help out anyone who walks in my store no one knows about my rant other than the guys on here obviously you don't know me or youwouldn't say something like that, come to my shop sometime. I never tell people to do something that would be forcing them I don't use that kind of Gestapo tactics

[Samiam]

This is nothing new. When slots started to decline in the late sixties, distributors and manufactures started dumping product on every outlet available. Slot cars and parts could be bought at 5 & Dime stores,Hardware stores, Auto Parts, non raceway Hobby stores, and of course, from mail order catalogs. All furthering the declining trend. Till it all snowballed into the present day situation.

 

 When a Raceway sells online they should have to sell at suggested list. Exceptions would be discontinued,obsolete, or limited special deals. When I need something that my Raceway doesn't carry,I will always order from a Commercial Raceway. If I can't support my local track, at least a legit Raceway is benefiting.

 

Distributors most likely have a sliding discount scale. The more you buy the larger your discount. So the large volume tracks have a built in advantage if they use this to undercut other Raceways. With no rules being enforced as to advertised price, racers will see this as a bargain and just "Add to Cart". With a few clicks they saved a few bucks. Very short sighted on their part.

 

Unless a Track Owners Association is formed to gain clout and influence these practices will continue. Manufactures,Distributors, and Tracks alike must start to head in a direction that is best for the industry as a whole and not just what is best for their immediate gain.

 

First thing that has to go are internet sellers who are not Commercial Raceways open to the public with advertised store hours. Pressure must be put on the offending Distributor who is selling to them.

 

Karl,

 

Try this. Raise your track rental and race entry price. But give a discount to racers who bought parts. Use a punch card or their receipt.

[Rob Voska]

Blame al gore he invented the internet.  Blame the post office for delivering the package.  Blame the racer for trying to get a product than when ordered from the local raceway the next week or two is told....... "my distributor don't have it".  Blame the industry for not advertising on a national basis to grow the hobbie.  Blame the raceway owners for all having bastardized classes and rules to "lock in THEIR RACERS".  Blame progress for making such a wide variety of parts that a raceway simply can't stock them all. 

 

Seriously.  You don't think the guy that makes resistor controllers don't like the competition of an electronic controller eating into his business?  How about the guys making 36D motors.  What's with this new 16D thing....... it's killing my business and he complained about the C can........  Face it, your using a broken business model from the last century.

 

If I want part "XYZ" do I want to go thru the hassle of even seeing if my local raceway can get me one "IF" his distributor has them......... or .......... I see it online or ebay.  I simply click & order it.  Charged to my credit card and delivered to my door a few days later.  A lot of what are bought are parts that need worked on so it gives me time to work on them before I go to the track. That's your competition.  Adapt or die.

 

The problem is simply getting blood out of a turnup.  If you have 10 turnups you have to squeeze them hard to even begin to pay bills but if you have 100 turnup's...... each giving a little...... your profitable.

 

Look at your hero Bear.  He could barely get a minimun free shipping order together every few weeks.  I started Group 10 & he was complaining about having a 800 - 1K order every week.  Controllers, power supplies, tire grinders, setup's, arms, boxes..... and that was just Jerry Ward!  LOL   1K at 40% profit was $400 wk parts profit.  Use numbers to your advantage not disadvantage.  If you have 10 guys paying for track time & races vs. 100 guys paying for track time & races you won't care where they get their parts .......... simply do the math.   If the numbers don't work either try something else or ........

[racie35]

I'm not expecting people to pay more because I have overhead, you missed the point, these shops are selling below retail costs, I always have a smile and do things to help out anyone who walks in my store no one knows about my rant other than the guys on here obviously you don't know me or youwouldn't say something like that, come to my shop sometime. I never tell people to do something that would be forcing them I don't use that kind of Gestapo tactics

They're selling above wholesale but below your retail..what are they doing wrong? Ahh yes....using the internet. It isn't a crime,and I've heard this before. Especially from rc shops,airplane and car. It's hard to compete with no overhead I'm sure. Why don't you start up a we page and sell online too? A friend of mine did that for a time and was very busy.

[Samiam]

"so it gives me time to work on them before I go to the track."

 

WHAT TRACK?.....It's out of business and the doors are closed. So save a buck here and there and race in your basement. Or at a track 2 hrs. drive away. This is not a business model that can be compared to anything else. It is a niche hobby enjoyed by very few people. If you want to race at a commercial raceway...SUPPORT IT!  If you want to race in a basement.....buy from anywhere you can to save a few shekels.

 

Raceways that sell online at below retail prices, STOP IT!

 

Distributors who sell to every Tom,Dick,or Ken- H...STOP IT!

 

Support your local Raceway or you simply won't have one. 

[MattD]

I believe in supporting your local raceway, if you can. Our little group sure tries to do that. But this a is pretty much a free market economy and any idea that everybody should honor a pricing system or expect any kind of preferential treatment is bs. Most everybody tries to save money and get the best deal on what they buy. Very few exceptions to that. If you can't compete, you better change your business model. Not saying it is right or wrong, just that's the way it is.

[Richard G With]

At Raytown, we are required by the rules to buy components from them in order to race. 

 

I don't mind cause after 20 years without a raceway in Wichita I'm thankful to have a place to race "only" 2 1/2 hours away.

 

I experienced hostility from raceway owners in the old days because I was a traveling racer. I understand

now their concern about my "importing" parts undermining their business. Of course, being a Yankee racing in Texas was

 inflamatory anyway. A raceway can only raise race entry fees so far before the regular crowd pushes back.

 

Slot racing is unique or unusual in that we depend on having a "brick and mortar" venue to play with our toys.

Airplane guys, R/C guys and to some extent railroad guys don't have that problem as much.

[MarkH]

To me, it is the combination of the "Walmart" mentality and the "Opera Signer" syndrome.

Walmart - Buy it a cheap as you can with one stop shopping. While not true for everything on the shelf, the Sheeple have been programmed and there is no changing it.

Opera Singer - this is one who wakes in the morning, stretches while admiring themselves in the mirror followed by "….Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Meeeeeeeeeeee…"

 

When there was a local raceway near me, 20 years ago, I bought everything through them. Now we are a local club with many home tracks and no commercial tracks. Not sure if they fell do to your complaint but I am sure it was a contributor even back them. Without on-line shopping I would not be racing. I do however only buy from commercial raceways who are on line. It is the best I can do.

[Samiam]

Ever see an ad that said: "Price too low to advertise"?  The reason is that certain businesses are required to charge standard prices.

 

You see "Lowest Cigarette prices allowed by law". 

 

When I was a Snapper mower dealer I got a call from the distributor when I advertised some leftover mowers lower than retail. So this pricing model does exist in the free market. 

 

The sad part is that the practices described in the OP hurts the industry that the distributor depends on. Here in NY we call it stepping on your own d#%k.

[Tim Neja]

Well there is one problem not addressed here. What if your local raceway WONT STOCK enough of the parts you need for the class's of racing their running?? That forces you to buy from the internet!  I'd love to buy EVERYTHING I need from my local raceway, but sometimes their not stocking parts that I need. It forces me to mail order!  But that's a different discussion.

[Samiam]

Tim,

 

You just described my situation to a T.

 

When I was there Sat night there was ONE Hawk Retro on the wall. ONE! And the Drag guys are using them also.

 

I keep a well stocked inventory of my own. But other racers just hop online,click-click-click, and there goes $60 in sales.

[Pablo]

Support your local Raceway or you simply won't have one. 

 

I'm already there, Dude. 

 

Seriously, I usually order from Pacific Coast Hobbies (PCH) (e-slotcar.com) an established commercial raceway with a proven track ( ) record of excellent service.

[Ramcatlarry]

A Track Owners Association was alive and functioning when I was in business.  I paid my dues and attended several conferances.  Since HO and homeset 1/32 manufacturers are considered "toys", they are not considered part of the 'commercial slot car dealer' rules.  Many slot manufacturers are cottage industrialists (one man shows) that are desirable products, but not distributor marketable...not ever going to be stocked at a distributor.

 

Nature of modern retailing:  Big box stores put mom 'n pop neighborhood stores out of business.  Internet non-stores use big box stores as pickup warehouses and minimize profits for all.

 

The 'Hobby Industry Association' does not seem to recognize "slot cars" as a part of the hobby industry...  Same as the sports industry (news and TV) do not recognize 'motorsports' as a sporting activity  What WE do IS a part of modern technological sports, and needs a whole new understanding of our reality..

[Booger]

Took me 5 weeks to get a Difalco controller module at my local raceway...Distributor problems,not the track....I waited,but was none to happy about it....Could have bought one on the net the same day.....Sometimes your forced into things.

 

Anybody bought stuff for your shop at "jobber" prices lately?......

[Pappy]

If you can't beat them, join them. Nothing is keeping a raceway from selling online. Sell on line at a 10% discount, it's still a profit. Fast Eddie's in Richmond, IN. has an online store.

 

I remember one time telling Homer Duff who owned Duff Smorgasbord's after eating at his buffet "I really got you today, Homer". He said to me "son, you can bet I made a couple of nickels off of you". That was his attitude, make a couple of nickels off of everyone and run them through there by the thousands. I'd rather sell a whole bunch with a thirty percent mark up than sell half as much with a forty percent mark up.

[Pablo]

Pappy, I can't disagree with your post. But I don't like hearing it

In Utopia, commercial raceway owners bank-roll profits on all aspects of the hobby, not just certain parts of it.

Back on planet Earth, raceway owners who juggle mail order, sell parts over the counter, and host races - who is doing it successfully ?

Answer: not more than a handful of individuals in the entire world. Troopers like Mike Swiss and Scott Salzberg do it every day, but they are rare individuals.

 

It's a sad state of affairs for those who need a stream of income from slot cars. 

Thank God I personally have no delusions of ever making a penny of profit from this hobby.

Those who do, I'll be pushing a shopping cart down Beach Blvd. on the Gulf Coast soon, see ya there, and we can race !!!

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeee

 

[Matt Sheldon]

Karl,

 

While I believe this is your second rant on the subject, I have a question.

 

Are your racers not purchasing from you and purchasing via mail order? If so, why not just have a conversation and get some feedback. Maybe they have a perception that is different than yours as to what you are currently stocking. Educate them that at best what they are saving is a small price to pay for losing a facility. In the same token maybe your stocking habits are making them feel like you do not have what they need. Those that are living paycheck to paycheck or that are on a fixed income will rarely wait. They need to purchase when they have funds. I know if our local shop is out of items many will just order everything they need mail order because the perception can be that the raceway does not carry what they need. True or not in this society that is the reality.

 

Our local raceway has gotten worse and worse about stocking needed parts. I am not even talking about fluff items. I am typically not in a hurry for anything, but after three weeks of waiting I will take matters into my own hands.

 

To me it sounds like you need to change your business objective to stay competitive as your rant is not going to change anything. Mail order is here to stay and it fills a hole that is growing larger and larger. Work harder to create loyalty and open a line of communication and listening that will benefit both you and your customers.

[Pablo]

Well said, Matt.

 

I still believe the tradition of slot distributors selling slot product only to bona-fide slot raceways is smart slot business.

Unfortunately, the smart of yesteryear doesn't mesh with today's world.

 

Last night at dinner neither my son nor his girlfriend with their "smart phones" could tell me who won the NASCAR race.

Makes sense, because neither of them responded to my email I sent them this morning.

 

Young folks these days are on a completely different planet and wavelength than we are.