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Mossetti Patriot Striker chassis


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#1 swodem

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Posted 12 December 2015 - 05:20 PM

I'm going to give this a spin today and see how it goes on our 29m flat track.

 

I built it up yesterday, it's nicely pressed, but I noticed the rear section from about the bite bar back sits up, so when on a set-up block, the very rear is about 10/1000th off the deck, and it took a little tweaking to get flat. The pan was fine.

 

Because it's made of thicker material, it's stiffer and probably can get away without bracing in the rear uprights, too.

 

It's about 2.5 grams (roughly 5%) lighter than an X25

 

The coining is deeper than an X25.

 

It takes solder really well.

 

Axle height was perfect (.600") I didn't have to remove any material at all, which was lucky as there isn't much margin on those uprights.

 

Pin holes matched the X25 perfectly.


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#2 swodem

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Posted 13 December 2015 - 01:29 PM

Well the basic first run went quite well. The chassis is quick and easy to get the basic setup done and only needed a small amount of tape to get the pans level.
I feels quite different to the X25, not quite as lively. Probably because it's so stiff.
Laps times were not as fast as X25 but those are chassis that are tuned and have many hours setup, but it was pretty close. Did really well with a Saloon body on rather than LMP. Also the 4002FK motor was brand new, not run in, just a few 5min heat cycles on choke then 'Go'!
I have no doubt with some developmental work will be as quick as the X25 or quicker, and stay in shape for longer.

Good Enduro chassis.

#3 MSwiss

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Posted 15 December 2015 - 03:21 PM

I got a few in and I agree with most of the above.

 

The plating looks good and appears it will solder to, well.

 

The chassis seems much stiffer.

 

And I also agree the chassis is very flat , from the front to the bite bar area.

 

Where I'll disagree a bit, on the two I looked at, i thought it was more like .015" up in the back, at least on the motor side(s).

 

One was close to flat on the opposite side, and the other .010"-015", on the opposite side.

 

Also, I'll disagree the coining is deeper.

 

I would say is it is pretty identical, with the Patriot being .004" thicker material, it's effectively shallower.


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#4 MSwiss

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Posted 15 December 2015 - 05:03 PM

A third one, with an aluminum pan, also was up on the gear side, also.

 

20151215_160109-1.jpg


Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
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Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
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Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
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#5 kvanpelt

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Posted 18 December 2015 - 10:02 PM

I had a chance to put mine on a setup block today, and would say it was very close to perfect. Some very minor tweaking and it was good to go. Looking forward to running it in a couple weeks at our GLISRA race. Slightly stiffer than a JK X25.

#6 swodem

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Posted 18 December 2015 - 10:04 PM

Post up the result. I raced mine during the week but it's not as fast as a (well tuned) X25

#7 Zippity

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Posted 18 December 2015 - 10:56 PM

Were you surprised, Grasshopper?   :)



#8 MSwiss

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Posted 18 December 2015 - 11:13 PM

Steve,
What seemed to be the reason?

Less bite from the thicker material?

Mike Swiss
 
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Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
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17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
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#9 swodem

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Posted 21 December 2015 - 06:38 AM

Not 100% sure yet but I think yes maybe too stiff overall. While the x25 needs it in the back section, the rest maybe not...it's kinda in between the Champion Turbo Fkex and the X25 the way it feels and rides...
But that's stock standard...
Make a great Newbie chassis....

#10 Fast Freddie

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Posted 21 December 2015 - 10:44 AM

Take a close look at the main rails on this chassis.  They start out straight from the rear (like a T-Flex) then angle (similar to a X25) abruptly to the outriggers.  Probably in an effort to allow more twist at the front of the chassis.  I don't see that happening because the angle on the main rails begins too close to the out riggers.  This could impart an abrupt twist to the chassis.  On a C11 or X25 the main rails start out at an angle and continue at that further widening angle until they get to the out riggers.  The twist should be less abrupt on a X25 and even less on a C11 mainly due to the C11 length and thinner material.  I think this would be a chassis for high banked tracks more so than flat tracks.  I haven't tried one yet and that's just an observation.  Trying to meld the parallel main rail chassis with an angled rail chassis is new and could be very good once it's sorted out.  Just my 2 cents worth. 


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#11 swodem

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Posted 26 December 2015 - 02:40 PM

I fixed this, that made it handle a little better...

 

img2366.jpg



#12 Zippity

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Posted 26 December 2015 - 03:08 PM

Is that a before of after photograph?



#13 swodem

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Posted 26 December 2015 - 03:10 PM

Before....

#14 Zippity

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Posted 26 December 2015 - 04:04 PM

k                                                                           



#15 Fast Freddie

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 11:12 AM

That is the one thing I never understood about coined guide tongues.  Why are they almost always stamped pointing down or at the very least level with the tech block?  We all know that a slight (2%) up angle is best for handling and yet it's never there on coined guide tongues.  On the easy to adjust C11 chassis all my chassis had a slight up angle when I bought them.  It's not just this chassis but every chassis with a coined guide tongue.  Is there a reason a coined guide tongue can't be stamped with a natural up angle?  Every time I put that necessary up angle in one of my chassis with a coined guide tongue it creates a crease in the guide tongue and I never seem to get it straight enough. I don't use a round washer like in post #11 but a straight steel bar.  Maybe I'll try the washer method. 


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#16 Samiam

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 11:47 AM

The tilt down will be exaggerated by the difference in track clearance between front and back.
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#17 Cheater

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 11:50 AM

A large bolt, washers, and a nut was my "handle" for years for correcting guide tongue angle.

R-Geo at one time made a nicer tool (which I have as well) as perhaps did someone else.

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#18 Cheater

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 12:02 PM

The tilt down will be exaggerated by the difference in track clearance between front and back.


Yes, it will and allowance has to be made for that.

Learning to "read" the wear pattern on a car's braid is a useful skill to develop, as it will indicate when you have the guide geometry "right" insofar as that particular track is concerned.

Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#19 Greg VanPeenen

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 09:26 PM

I put together one of the new Mossetti Patriot Chassis the other day, and just returned from racing.

 

I tested it and let Bob Foster and Rick Sloan run laps with it. It was a three piece with steel pans. JK hawk motor geared 44/14 Tested with JK big hub tires .750 no fronts just stickers. It was set up for our Retro Flexi Coupe class with a Marcos Mantis body. Weight was 92 grams with no added weight. That is eight grams under the min. weight of 100 grams for this class.

 

The track is 155 ft. Hill Climb, power was 13.3 volts. The car was very flat and handled well. On this track the extra 8 grams will cause the corner speed to increase but may slow it down a bit on the long straight. The Chassis is stiffer then the JK X25 but it didn't seem to be a problem. No other tires were tested.

 

On this chassis the guide tongue was up a few degrees and flat from side to side. The rear was off a bit on this one also.

 

Time will tell, but those that ran it were impressed. Lap times were in the 4.7's close to the lap times of dialed in C11's and X-25's.

 

Regards

Greg VanPeenen. 

 

More tuning will tell the tail on this chassis   



#20 Ramcatlarry

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 10:05 PM

Coining and bending issues FYI.  Stainless (especially) has a memory of being flat or of its last shape...one reason never to try to use SS from a roll to make flat parts..  Many times in bending many of the Stainless alloys, if you use a 90 degree die form, you never end with a full 90 deg. bend... sometimes the die COULD be made with an extra few degrees of form in order to make the final piece perfect, but we see the same effect when different thickness metals are used in the same die set.  I worked over ten years in a sheet metal shop.


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#21 Half Fast

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 10:30 PM

Learning to "read" the wear pattern on a car's braid is a useful skill to develop, as it will indicate when you have the guide geometry "right" insofar as that particular track is concerned.

 

Greg-

 

Please explain how?

 

Cheers


Bill Botjer

Faster then, wiser now

 

 


#22 Fast Freddie

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Posted 28 December 2015 - 12:22 PM

Don't want to step on Greg but here's the quickie answer.  Run your car about 5-10 laps then check the braid.  If the front of the braid is shiny the guide is pointing down, no good.  If the entire length of the braid is shiny the guide is sitting flat, OK but not best, however I've been told that flat works good on Retro cars where all 4 tires contact the track surface all the time.  If the rear 1/2 to 1/3 of the braid is shiny and maybe even dirty the guide is pointing up slightly and that is usually best.  This can change from track to track due to braid depth.  It can also change slightly with different thicknesses of braid.  Hope this helps.


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#23 Tim Wood

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 10:13 AM

Thanks Fast Eddie, Great description. Hey I learned something.



#24 Tim Wood

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 10:14 AM

Sorry, Fast Freddie. I have to learn how to spell now.



#25 swodem

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 12:57 PM

Tim, you know you can edit your posts for quite some time after posting them aye!?


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