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Bob Cozine 1967 Arco replica


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#1 Pablo

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Posted 22 December 2015 - 03:23 PM

IMG_9013.JPG

 

IMG_9024.JPG

 

post-451-0-04190800-1450986819.jpeg

 

Here's how it all started:

 

This will be a re-creation of Bob Cozine's (RIP) December 1967 Arco Kansas City car.

I'll try to have it done for testing at "The Cozine Classic" RETRO race on 8 January.

 

Photographic documentation for this car is sparse.

Here is the info I have gathered so far:

Body: Porsche 908

Wheelbase 4.0", guide lead 7/8"

Motor: Champion 517

Wheels: Champion

Gears: Weldun 7/34

Flag: Cox

Bracket: Russkit

 

I need better photos of the front of the drop arm but I doubt they exist. PdL said it was a "plate" up front, previously used by Cukras?

The Model Car Journal photos do not show a single good shot of this area.

 

I'm pretty sure the rear wheel max ODs are 7/8" and fronts 3/4", but the max wheel widths elude me.

 

Body was given to me by Greg Gilbert. It's 3.00" wide and nicely painted with lacquers.

 

IMG_6734.JPG


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#2 Jairus

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Posted 22 December 2015 - 03:50 PM

Porsche 908 actually. Dynamic I believe.


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#3 Pablo

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Posted 22 December 2015 - 04:21 PM

OK, thanks Jairus. I've been wanting to use it on something for a long time.

The width, wheelbase, and guide lead are correct.
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#4 tonyp

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Posted 22 December 2015 - 06:39 PM

I am pretty sure Bob's car used a piano wire/brass rod arm with lead inserted into it.

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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First IM Nationals Champion
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#5 Pablo

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Posted 22 December 2015 - 07:07 PM

Yep, that is what I see, Tony. :)
 
I found some motor parts:

- Professor Motor can autographed by Bob Rule at the 2015 Cozine Classic
- Champion endbell
- Russkit bracket
- Pro Slot custom endbell drive 16D arm
 
IMG_8632.JPG
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#6 Pablo

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Posted 23 December 2015 - 03:25 PM

6 mm flanged Pro Slot endbell BB. This time I used the Havlicek press fit method exactly like he does it.
Nailed it first time, perfect snug fit and perfect alignment.  :dance3:
 
IMG_8640.JPG
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#7 Pablo

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Posted 23 December 2015 - 03:53 PM

Found some old Champion wheels and left the patina in place this time.

Since they are closed on the outsides, it required a backwards donut mounting method with the JK tool and custom-fitted cones.
 
IMG_8644.JPG
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#8 Don Weaver

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 08:38 AM

I don't have any Arco rules from 1967 but my 1968 ruleset specifies 7/8" rear and 3/4" fronts but no widths are given - only the overall width of 3.00". I would imagine that the period "standard" width of 5/8" and 1/4" would probably be correct. 

What does your hub measure? Tire dimensions apply to Can-Am, F1, and Stockcar(!).
 
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#9 tonyp

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 08:51 AM

I think '67 and '68 Arco rules were pretty much the same...

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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#10 Pablo

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 08:56 AM

Thanks, Don and Tony. I don't see any wheel width restriction in the '68 rules.

The rear hub "tread" on my Champions is 1/2" wide but depending on how much rubber I allow to flare out, it could be 5/8".

I found a set of 3/4" OD Cobra fronts that are plenty wide enough so I think I'm good on the wheels.  :good:
 
This is what I came up with for securing the SKF can BB.
 
IMG_8646.JPG
 
IMG_8651.JPG
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#11 Don Weaver

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 10:51 AM

Pablo,

 

I don't think it was a common practice to extend the rubber beyond the wheel width in 1967-68 as it is today.

 

Don


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#12 Pablo

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 11:18 AM

I wasn't planning on it, Don. Maybe "flare" wasn't the right word.


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#13 Bill from NH

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 12:15 PM

We used to extend orange donuts like that for wing cars in the early '70s. Rear width was measured from edge of huh to edge of hub. Champion tires of the same period did not come with extended rubber. I still have a couple pair of these, hard as rocks. :)

Bill Fernald
 

I heard they weren't going to make yardsticks any longer.


#14 Pablo

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 01:47 PM

Normally, I'd just use a can straightener then a bearing insertion tool to install the BB true. But the ID of this can is way bigger than both my tools. :o Is this "bigger than standard D size" a Professor Motor thing, or a Champion thing?

Just curious. It certainly won't stop this show.
 
The 3/16" hole in the platform for the BB appears to be in good alignment, but I'll go the extra mile here.
I attached a dummy bushing with a microfilm of Krazy Glue to enable me to set the magnets.
 
IMG_8657.JPG
 
Once the mags are secure, I'll twist the dummy off and solder the rare, expensive SKF BB in perfect alignment using the .560" slug with endbell in place.
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#15 Bill from NH

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 02:50 PM

I think your sizing issue was done by whomever formed the can for Champion. It has no welded side seams, so I was formed over a plug rather than cut from sheet metal and bent into a can. I doubt if either PM or Champion, itself, was involved.

Some of the contemporary Red Fox cans run big like this, too.

Bill Fernald
 

I heard they weren't going to make yardsticks any longer.


#16 tonyp

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 02:54 PM

Pablo,

The drop arm is definitely built up with lead inserted into it and a big hunk on top right behind the guide.

image.jpeg

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
Revtech Team Trinity
Retro East co-founder
American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
Arco Champion
Car Model Magazine Series Amateur Champion
2016 ORS Anglewinder Constructors Championsh
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#17 slotcarone

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 03:17 PM

Looks very much like the current Jail Door chassis I have been building.

IMG_20130624_223157_329.jpg
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#18 Pablo

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 03:59 PM

I think your sizing issue was done by whomever formed the can for Champion.


Bill, I know (that you know) this isn't a Champion can, so I think what you mean to say is:
"I think your sizing issue was done by whomever formed the original can for Champion"
Is that correct?
 
Tony, I have those photos, and understand. :good:  But they are not great photos.
The VP has no choice but to forgive me if mine isn't exactly the same as the original car. Unless better photos surface (which I'm pretty sure won't). I can only guarantee mine will be functionally correct, as always :)
 
Hoods were honed with the appropriate tool, then aligned and soldered to the pentroof holders.
The Champion endbell nubs were in perfect position so it made alignment easy.
Endbell passes the "shaft falls through both bearings with hood alignment tool in place" test perfectly.
 
IMG_8665.JPG
 
Mike K, sweet chassis. :good:
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#19 Bill from NH

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 04:46 PM

I assumed the cans sold by PM were NOS Champion parts obtained from REHco. PM has been selling other NOS Champion items obtained from REHco. 

If they're clones of the Champion can, made for PM to sell, blame whoever made them, but I don't know who they are.

Bill Fernald
 

I heard they weren't going to make yardsticks any longer.


#20 Pablo

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 04:54 PM

It's all too complicated for me. :wacko2: 

Whoever made these cans made them bigger than normal. Ain't complainin' - the endbells fit the cans and brush hardware perfectly.
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#21 SlotStox#53

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 07:39 PM

Look forward to seeing what you come up with, Pablo. :good:

Regarding the can, it sure looks like a genuine and, like Bill, I thought that all the cans Professor Motor sells labeled as "Champion" are all left over Champion goodies.

Sure looks like two "Champion" cans with DZ magnets and those very endbells I aquired with the oversized bushing, etc.

Will have to dig through the parts vault and take a couple of pics if you need them. :)

#22 Pablo

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Posted 25 December 2015 - 06:31 AM

The only pics I need are better ones of the original car. :)
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#23 Don Weaver

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Posted 25 December 2015 - 08:42 AM

Pablo,
 
Trying to extrapolate from the bottom view of the chassis it looks like the rears are 0.625" wide. 

Also, I noticed a boat load of "slop" in the front axle movement - somewhere around 3/16". 

I'm sure you can get better measurements directly off the picture but also verify by adding up the pieces (bracket, brass rod, spacing, etc.) and with a 3.0" chassis width there is no room for 3/4" tires.
 
Don

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If the brain-eating amoeba invades Washington
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#24 Samiam

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Posted 25 December 2015 - 08:49 AM

Also, I noticed a boat load of "slop" in the front axle movement - somewhere around 3/16".

 
BITD that was known as "Cukras slop".
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#25 Pablo

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Posted 25 December 2015 - 09:25 AM

Look forward to seeing what you come up with, Pablo.


Interesting observation, Paul. :good: A build like this has to go one step at a time, and it shows you "get that". Nothing ever goes exactly according to plan, but it's easier to deviate from a known plan than to have no plan. :paint2:
 
Don, no need for you to worry, just sit back and enjoy. Glad to see I'm not the only wacko who cares about slot cars on Christmas. :sun_bespectacled:
 
I hope this paint is a good match for the can. We'll see.
 
IMG_8669.JPG
 
The D mags need shimming both vertically and horizontally. I tried a lot of combinations and found one I think will work. I cut 10 thou shim stock and curved them by tightening a hose clamp onto a 5/8" socket.
 
IMG_8667.JPG
 
Parma Deathstar (vertical) shims are easy to adjust by mashing them in a vice to desired thickness, and they fit the cooling hole perfectly.

Nothing here has to be absolutely perfect, since I'll be using a perfectly centered slug anyway. Any gaps will simply serve as pooling areas for glue.
 
IMG_8673.JPG
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