Jump to content




Photo

Used tracks, raceway owners, etc.


  • Please log in to reply
166 replies to this topic

#51 MattD

MattD

    Posting Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,561 posts
  • Joined: 13-August 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:IN

Posted 08 January 2016 - 02:28 PM

A crowd of new, young fans would be a great foundation for a track, but there are a lot of factors that work against that. Attracting a new group takes a nice combination of location, friendly/helpful track owner, older racers that want to help a young crowd, a clean, well-lit facility that is inviting to mothers and kids, and daily hours, not just evening hours when retired guys show up. This would be a great starting point, but the economics make a lot of this hard to do. I bet less than 30% of tracks are located in a high trafic area for younger people. Lease costs almost rule that out.

I would like to see our hobby get stronger, but it will probably become a home-based hobby almost entirely in the next 15-20 years. Sadly that core group of older racers is just a fact of life for a lot of places.
 
They are the guys that keep their tracks going.


Matt Bishop

 





#52 Dennis David

Dennis David

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,424 posts
  • Joined: 05-April 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SF Bay Area

Posted 08 January 2016 - 02:32 PM

You're probably right but at least if we talk about it from time to time maybe we can put off the future a little longer, at least until we're ready to take that final journey.

Dennis David
    
 


#53 Samiam

Samiam

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,746 posts
  • Joined: 18-January 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Long Island, NY

Posted 08 January 2016 - 02:35 PM

Maggot wagon? Wow! :laugh2:  We call them roach coaches here. 

 

I would think microwave re-heatables would be the safest bet. Especially if no other food is easily accessible. Keeps the hungry racers at the track. 

 

Point is opening a commercial raceway brings a lot more scrutiny than a private club. And that scrutiny often results in thousands of dollars in unexpected expenditures. At least that's the case here on Long Island, NY.


  • Half Fast likes this
Sam Levitch
 
"If you have integrity, nothing else matters, and if you do not have integrity, nothing else matters."
    Robert Mueller, special counsel (2013)
 
"... because people have got to know whether or not their president is a crook."
    Richard M .Nixon, Nov 17, 1973
 
"Fool me once, same on... shame on you. Fool me... you can't get fooled again."
    George W. Bush

#54 Dennis David

Dennis David

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,424 posts
  • Joined: 05-April 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SF Bay Area

Posted 08 January 2016 - 02:57 PM

Hey the hottest thing in California now are lunch trucks serving some really good food and I don't see as many maggots anymore. LOL.

But I hear you. I was thinking re-heat mostly.


Dennis David
    
 


#55 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • IRRA National Director
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 25,614 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 08 January 2016 - 03:57 PM

Mike how thick are your soft walls?

 

I have four different types.

I'll measure them and comment tomorrow.


Dennis,

The two types of non-clear soft walls are siding products that are approximately .047" thick. They work great at car protection, but are on the thin side.
 
A negative is shorter marshals, reaching cars all the way to the inside, can fold them over and they eventually crack and break. They can be repaired with duct tape, but not a super-great look.
 
I've already expounded on the positives in a previous post, but I missed one. They are thin enough for a car to go partially through. It's happened 3 times.
 
At the 2006 Nats, Beuford went through the bank wall at about 75 mph, on blue, passing Gugu on the outside, with a dying motor on yellow. I carefully extracted him and he went on to win the heat, and the race.
 
At a wing car, points race, Ron Van Wagnen, again with a G7 car, got ridered into the 90 wall. Again, no damage.
 
Finally Sano Dave, practicing by himself, took his Open G12 scale car, through the bank wall. As I was pulling him out, he informed me he had brain farted and forgot to put his guide nut back on after a ride height change. LOL.
 
The white, thin stuff is very affordable, a buck or a buck and a quarter a foot.
 
One type of clear I have is a Lucite product called something like Luc-Tuff. It's .093" thick and ten times stronger than regular Lucite. It's more expensive, but still fairly affordable. But, it will crack if you lean on it too hard while reaching to get a car too quickly. I use it mostly on the inside turns of my flat track for visibility, so the strength isn't too big of an issue, and it has served me well.
 
The other type of clear I have is genuine Lexan©, 3/32" thick.
 
It's used for better visibility on my King in the Deadman and Donut. It's mounted with a little bit of give, and despite it being twice as thick as the white stuff, it seems to be as effective at protecting cars.
 
In the deadman, it's on the outside, so there is very little leaning on it. In the donut, it is fully exposed to marshals and has held up without any cracking or breaking.
 
The good news is that on the first day I had it up, a bigger than average eight-year old, autistic child, sat on it, without any damage.
 
The only negative of Lexan©/polycarbonate is the cost. About $75 for a 4' x 4' sheet.
 
Dennis, I'll answer your other question at a later date, when I have more time.


Mike Swiss
 
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559


#56 Dennis David

Dennis David

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,424 posts
  • Joined: 05-April 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SF Bay Area

Posted 08 January 2016 - 05:01 PM

I was thinking of something along the lines of homasote the same height of the current walls.

Dennis David
    
 


#57 Cheater

Cheater

    Headmaster of the asylum

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 25,539 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norcross, GA

Posted 08 January 2016 - 05:05 PM

I would like to see our hobby get stronger, but it will probably become a home-based hobby almost entirely in the next 15-20 years. Sadly that core group of older racers is just a fact of life for a lot of places.


My feeling is the commercial 1/24 hobby will be essentially gone in 5-10 years, Matt.

Here's an intersting quote from Amazon's CEO Jeff Bezos that hit my inbox today:

"All businesses need to be young forever. If your customer base ages with you, you're Woolworth's."
  • Tim Neja likes this

Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#58 jimht

jimht

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,585 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Alamo City

Posted 08 January 2016 - 05:41 PM

Yeah, but what about the wrinkle cream industry?

 

Anyway... I was going to list the mistakes our industry has made over the past 50 years. Then I simplified it; the error was made right at the start:

 

Designing the cars and tracks to cater to speed was the initial mistake that was made 50 years ago and we just did what was necessary to further that end as we went along.

 

Now we don't have a product to sell in the toy market. Instead we're stuck with high tech fragile missiles that kids can drive but don't know how to fix and a crowd that can afford the speed but can't handle it... soft walls anyone?  :laugh2: 


Jim Honeycutt

 

"I don't think I'm ever more 'aware' than I am right after I hit my thumb with a hammer." - Jack Handey [Deep Thoughts]


#59 Les Boyd

Les Boyd

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 465 posts
  • Joined: 28-September 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Henderson, KY

Posted 08 January 2016 - 05:41 PM

More speed, faster cars, face it there just a few people in any given area that can build and drive the cars that are available today.

 

There is always one guy that always wins at the local track and that frustrates many other racers and then the turn-outs get smaller and then before you know it the track is closed.

 

I see that there are several club tracks around and even a few private tracks that are utilizing old commercial tracks, and all I can say is more power to them.



#60 Cheater

Cheater

    Headmaster of the asylum

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 25,539 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norcross, GA

Posted 08 January 2016 - 06:08 PM

There is always one guy that always wins at the local track and that frustrates many other racers and then the turn-outs get smaller and then before you know it the track is closed.


But, as I claimed earlier, the revenue from organized racing activities won't pay the raceway's bills. So blaming the demise of the raceway on problems on the racing side is IMO misplaced.
  • Samiam likes this

Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#61 Dennis David

Dennis David

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,424 posts
  • Joined: 05-April 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SF Bay Area

Posted 08 January 2016 - 06:56 PM

I agree but that's the perspective most people on Slotblog come from.

Dennis David
    
 


#62 Michael Jr.

Michael Jr.

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,154 posts
  • Joined: 24-April 14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Spartanburg, SC

Posted 08 January 2016 - 07:10 PM

You're probably right but at least if we talk about it from time to time maybe we can put off the future a little longer, at least until we're ready to take that final journey.


I'm going to speculate that commercial tracks will continue to exist but will be strong regionally rather than nationally.
There will continue to be guys that try their hand at a commercial track. So there will be commercial tracks....like now, that last only a couple of years and then the track is sold and reopened under a different name.
  • MSwiss likes this

Michael Cannon

Upstate Speedway

100 McMillian St.

Spartanburg, SC 29303


#63 Michael Jr.

Michael Jr.

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,154 posts
  • Joined: 24-April 14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Spartanburg, SC

Posted 08 January 2016 - 07:13 PM

Hey the hottest thing in California now are lunch trucks serving some really good food and I don't see as many maggots anymore. LOL.

But I hear you. I was thinking re-heat mostly.


We have a snack bar, a fridge with drinks and we serve hotdogs on Saturdays. We move a lot of food but it doesn't really make a lot of money in the big picture.

However... it's a part of the overall picture and lots of small bricks make the house.


  • Cheater, PCH Parts Express, Samiam and 1 other like this

Michael Cannon

Upstate Speedway

100 McMillian St.

Spartanburg, SC 29303


#64 MarkH

MarkH

    Race Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 526 posts
  • Joined: 26-November 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:St. Louis

Posted 08 January 2016 - 10:00 PM

Some where in the past I posted some ideas to get the younger crowd excited about slot cars.

 

To me the first logical place is the Scouts. They have Pinewood Derby in the Cubs and the next place to go would be slots. It would be great if the older/experienced guys would help at these events to make sure a percentage do get excited and continue. Kids talk to and brag about the things they love to do just as much as adults do. The word will spread.

 

Another place to promote is movie theaters. While the number show attendance is down, those short commercials before the movie can capture the imagination of an already excited / pumper up person. Yes, perhaps the birthday party and team building thing can be thrown in the commercial. A lot of kids go to the movies and afterwards they want to do something else for fun.

 

The high school or community college technical classes, as mentioned in an earlier post, could also generate interest. Develop some general performance gain requirements with an instructor. The imagination is the limit here. It could be an annual holiday race held and report in the local paper. If you write the article and provide pictures, most likely it will be in the paper. They like easy stuff to print.

 

All of this however relies on the experienced guys donating time to help new people along. We all know the curve. First it is cool and new. Then you begin to get a bit better but are still short on pace and you crash a lot trying to go faster. The something happens in your brain and things really fall into place and your speed improves again after much frustration. Now you can compete for mid pack most of the time and some top finishes here and there.

 

It is so easy to forget this when watching new people give it a go. Most newbies think the fast guys just don't lift off the throttle. Have them watch your technique controlling the car by focusing on your fingers, not the car. I have been working with a couple of guys. One was ready to throw in the towel because he could not get up to speed. Now he is a solid racer and getting better each time. The other guy is now one of my competitors. He drives real good, clean, and fast. It is fun to dice with him. Both of these guys are telling other people and promoting slot car racing as a fun hobby. 

 

Just some thoughts from a sleepy mind… Going to take an eight-hour nap.


Mark Horne

SERG - www.slotcarenduro.club
"Racing is life... everything else is just waiting." Steve McQueen - LeMans
There are only two things in life that make me feel alive. Racing is one of them.


#65 Michael Jr.

Michael Jr.

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,154 posts
  • Joined: 24-April 14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Spartanburg, SC

Posted 09 January 2016 - 06:29 AM

MarkH,

Interestingly I've explored most of the areas in your strategy above. Scouts and schools but not theaters.

I've had scout leadership come in and they got excited but can't seem to get a group trip to happen. Not giving up but it's been over a year trying to coordinate a group trip with their calendar. Had the local youth league discuss holding their post season party and even how to begin a youth racing league. Again, might still happen someday but can't get the ball moving. I have a patron that wrote letters to every district superintendent of public schools and even knows two of them personally and spoke with them. They think it's a great idea to have school based team competition. But when.....with all the other activities?

Here is my conclusions under lessons learned. We can't fish with big nets. Organizing entire groups to get in the shop is nearly impossible. So far it has actually been impossible and we've not been passive in our approach.

I'm going to explore offering the hobby as an activity to those with handicaps. I have a nephew with severe ADHD. With his medication he does fine but lacks a great deal of outside engagement. He participates in special olympics and such so this might be a venue for him and those with similar issues. I also have a man with physical abdicate that suggested working with the rehabilitation center.

I've had a car club come race. It was fun but none returned.

As for the theater. I've actually written down the number and called about that advertising before. But as I measure my on experience, I decided it wasn't best because by the end of the movie I forgot anything that advertised.

Bill board might be a different matter. So I'm searching out bargain billboard advertising now.

Groups have the things they historically do. It's very hard to break in with a new activity. Parents nearly panic when a group leader suggests taking their kid to a place they know nothing about and yes... they should come org the group but of course they won't. So groups just organize and do the same thing year after year.

Michael Cannon

Upstate Speedway

100 McMillian St.

Spartanburg, SC 29303


#66 MarkH

MarkH

    Race Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 526 posts
  • Joined: 26-November 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:St. Louis

Posted 09 January 2016 - 08:14 AM

Very sorry to hear that Michael. Not sure how you could try any harder. I guess "Stick and Ball" sports will always dominate in the schools for most. All of which I have zero interest in, so I suppose I am not normal. My signature states that pretty clearly, "Racing is life...".

Pretty surprised the Scouts are not interested.
 
Maybe it takes bringing the racing to these groups. Then you would need to be in two places at once and invest even more money. So that most likely is not an option.

Hmmm, if we could only get Slot Racing in a movie where it is shown to be cool, fun, and worth the effort. Perhaps an industry financed 20-30 second commercial to play during the Daytona or Indy 500 races. Not sure how big that tab would be but if it were spread across the hobby it might be possible. There has to be something being overlooked to get new and/or younger people to come out and play.
 
A different bag of apples: I know the home tracks are doing well here in STL. I have organized an new effort to hold longer Enduro type races. We had 11 guys last Thursday on the first weeknight race. The Saturday monthly Team Enduro we average 10-16 guys. We also are running four-lane tracks so not as many people are needed to run the show and it moves faster than an eight-lane track. But with no overhead, no money needing to be made and a club environment, this is just a different story.

Mark Horne

SERG - www.slotcarenduro.club
"Racing is life... everything else is just waiting." Steve McQueen - LeMans
There are only two things in life that make me feel alive. Racing is one of them.


#67 Michael Jr.

Michael Jr.

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,154 posts
  • Joined: 24-April 14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Spartanburg, SC

Posted 09 January 2016 - 08:57 AM

I've considered setting up a track at the county fair. Actually inclined to do that if I can get hold of a track that's manageable to move without tearing it up.

I'm also going to keep pursuing a youth league. I'll just have to organize it myself instead of having the local youth sports league do it.

Newspaper brought in a few folks. TV didn't do anything at all. TV programs have too tight a shot group. A newspaper is read by a cross section.

I'm on Groupon. That's brought several folks in but they haven't returned.

Bottom line is that racers multiply when racers themselves get others involved. So... I'm considering bring a buddy incentives for existing racers. Being a buddy and get track bucks or something.

Michael Cannon

Upstate Speedway

100 McMillian St.

Spartanburg, SC 29303


#68 Cheater

Cheater

    Headmaster of the asylum

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 25,539 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norcross, GA

Posted 09 January 2016 - 08:59 AM

Guys, all good suggestions, but the attitude that the commercial 1/24 hobby can be grown into better 'health' from the bottom up, i.e. by the actions of individual trackowners, is simply a fantasy.

 

Consider a lowly independent sandwich shop in any given city. In a big city there may be dozens or even hundreds of such little restaurants, and they come and go, most not lasting for very long regardless of their signage, promotional efforts, even quality of product.

 

Now consider Subway, the largest restaurant chain the world, with 44,607 units in 111 countries. Simply put, Subway did not ascend to such success based on what was done at one particular unit. 

 

From my perspective, the critical elements for the 1/24 commercial raceway industry at this time are visibility and venue.

 

Visibility: the general public is not aware that a 1/24 commercial raceway industry exists.

 

Venue: there are so few 1/24 raceways in the US now that even if the public was aware of the industry there is no raceway within a reasonable distance for a huge percentage of the population.


  • PCH Parts Express likes this

Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#69 Dennis David

Dennis David

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,424 posts
  • Joined: 05-April 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SF Bay Area

Posted 09 January 2016 - 12:32 PM

In other words we're doomed, and enjoy it while you can.

Dennis David
    
 


#70 Michael Jr.

Michael Jr.

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,154 posts
  • Joined: 24-April 14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Spartanburg, SC

Posted 09 January 2016 - 12:55 PM

Absolutely not. We just won't be a huge all-encompassing American pastime. But tracks still pepper the fruited plains. I'm expanding. Things are more positive than negative.

Michael Cannon

Upstate Speedway

100 McMillian St.

Spartanburg, SC 29303


#71 Cheater

Cheater

    Headmaster of the asylum

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 25,539 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norcross, GA

Posted 09 January 2016 - 01:05 PM

Michael,

 

Yes, there are some positives but from my perspective the 1/24 commercial raceway industry is in the worst shape it's ever been in. YMMV.


Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#72 PCH Parts Express

PCH Parts Express

    Posting Leader

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,454 posts
  • Joined: 27-December 09
  • Gender:Male

Posted 09 January 2016 - 01:27 PM

Local car dealership ads work. Car factory ads work. Both together work better. 

 

No raceway has a group sales manager.

No raceway gets factory advertising support beyond slot related blog posts and maybe an ad in magazines or ad banner. (not bad at all, but it's not TV)

No raceway has $10,000 to spend on local ads (each month). Maybe try spending $500 to $2000 each month. 

 

But raceways do have options.

Group-on

Craigslist

Local news paper

Local cable TV (USA, TBS, CNN)

Flyers on cars at ?

The Penny Saver  (if they are still in business) 

 

If you sell kids b'days you will get kids moms to book parties. Kids parties are profitable.   

 

If you sell rentals, family fun and kids b'day parties you may get your ad dollars back as sales. Ad dollars will also bring in racers. 


Scott Salzberg
PCH Parts Express


#73 MattD

MattD

    Posting Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,561 posts
  • Joined: 13-August 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:IN

Posted 09 January 2016 - 01:46 PM

We all love this hobby, most of us for over 40 or 50 years, We can hope it could get stronger and expand. That's not really likely except in a few places where the stars have lined up perfectly. A lot has been posted about different ways guys have tried to amp up interest and mostly with little return. Lets just hope that anywhere there is a core group, guys can pick up an old track, build a new one, or keep racing on plastic track. The future may be positive if these small groups can bring in a few guys every now and then that will stick with it. That way the hobby will continue in garages and basements.

Matt Bishop

 


#74 PCH Parts Express

PCH Parts Express

    Posting Leader

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,454 posts
  • Joined: 27-December 09
  • Gender:Male

Posted 09 January 2016 - 03:13 PM

What would happen if Sizzler, the Ford dealer in your town, the grocery stores in your town, the CVS in your town, the other businesses in your town stopped or didn't advertise? Even hospitals, clinics, casinos, and gentlemen clubs advertise. The purpose is to give the "consumer" the idea to do what you want them to do. They need reminding from time to time what are their choices for entertainment in their area. 
 
Mini golf places advertise. They do kids parties and group events.
Bowling alley. Maybe they do similar things?
Movie theaters advertise all the time.
Slot car shops are like movie theaters. An hour or two of fun. Not too expensive. Family friendly.
  • garyvmachines likes this

Scott Salzberg
PCH Parts Express


#75 Michael Jr.

Michael Jr.

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,154 posts
  • Joined: 24-April 14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Spartanburg, SC

Posted 09 January 2016 - 03:36 PM

So, someone make us a great stock commercial and offer it free of charge so we can pay to have it out in the local news time here.
Gotta be someone with some movie making skill out there.

Michael Cannon

Upstate Speedway

100 McMillian St.

Spartanburg, SC 29303






Electric Dreams Online Shop