Jump to content




Photo

Let's give 'em something to talk about...


  • Please log in to reply
70 replies to this topic

#1 Bryan Warmack

Bryan Warmack

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,517 posts
  • Joined: 17-July 07
  • Gender:Male

Posted 19 January 2016 - 01:04 AM

Beginning next Saturday at the regular monthly King track races at Buena Park Raceway the SCRRA is going to try a few minor body rule changes. These will ONLY be in effect for the monthly races and will NOT be allowed in the major SCRRA races.

 

We have discussed these changes recently with most of the BPR regulars and almost all think it is a good idea or don't care.  Beginning Saturday we are going to allow certain bodies to be fitted with small side air dams or front diaplanes.

 

P1110052.JPG

Side air dams

 

P1110053.JPG

Front diaplane

 

The side air dams will be allowed on all the legal bodies other than the Ti22's and the front diaplanes will be allowed on only the SHORT version of the Tis  Very simple actually as we're just trying to get some different bodies involved in the races and basically a pet project of this race reporter as he just got tired of seeing almost nothing but long Tis occupying every grid for every race!  :laugh2:  

 

Also, most racers have droves of Lolas, Ferraris, and short Tis hiding away on shelves and locked in closets just waiting to be brought back to the track.

 

Whether these little aero tweeks actually help is a matter for discussion but the perception is that the long TI's have a distinct and decided advantage and that is why everyone runs them.  We're just trying to level the playing field and involve some different bodies and these changes will be easy to police.  The side dams can be no higher than the line connecting the top of the front fender to the top of the rear fender and at no point can be higher than 1/4" from the bodywork. The front diaplanes on the short TI's can be no longer than 1/4" and no wider than the body.  I will provide anyone with lexan strips free of charge for both applications and these can be easily mounted with double sided tape, clear tape or with the little Swingline "TOT" staplers.  See me at the track if you want some.

 

 Remember, these changes will ONLY be in effect for the MONTHLY BPR SCRRA races and will not be used in the upcoming Zimmerman "Festival of Speed,  the Summer Western Classic,  or the Boola Bash.  Just something to try and to mix things up out here in the "Wild West!"  :)  Slap some .005 lexan on the sides of a Lola and give it a try!  See you Saturday!


  • Darkron9 likes this




#2 Bryan Warmack

Bryan Warmack

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,517 posts
  • Joined: 17-July 07
  • Gender:Male

Posted 19 January 2016 - 01:12 AM

I forgot to add that a lot of these Lolas, Ferraris, short Tis, etc., are still available from Parma, Outisight, Electric Dreams, and Scott at PCH has many of these on his website.  :)


  • Darkron9 likes this

#3 raisin27

raisin27

    On The Lead Lap

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 406 posts
  • Joined: 11-March 13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Garden City, MI

Posted 19 January 2016 - 06:11 AM

I know I don't race with you guys but from the post I think your looking for opinions so here goes...

 

I think you're making the same mistake we made back in the '60s when air control began to creep into the hobby. If a Lola body proves fastest with the air control then the field will just be full of Lolas instead of Ti22s.

 

Perhaps a good compromise might be to make the Ti22s use a smaller rear spoiler but definatly keep the side dams and diaplanes out.

 

Personally I think we already have to much downforce for the low horsepower motors we use.

 

Raisin


  • Cheater, tonyp, Steve Deiters and 3 others like this

Michael Garrett

 

Proud to drive an American car, from an American manufacturer, assembled by American workers.

 

 I own a car from each of the big 3, I have a Ford, a Mercury, and a Lincoln.


#4 Don Weaver

Don Weaver

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,242 posts
  • Joined: 26-October 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lexington. SC

Posted 19 January 2016 - 07:12 AM

Absolutely none of my business but I think the Purist just lost its virginity...

 

Don


  • Cheater, MSwiss, Tex and 4 others like this

Don Weaver

​A slot car racer who never grew up!

 

The supply of government exceeds demand.
L.H. Lapham
 
If the brain-eating amoeba invades Washington
it will starve to death...


#5 Tex

Tex

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,934 posts
  • Joined: 07-July 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denton, TX

Posted 19 January 2016 - 07:20 AM

I think once the locals get used to it for the local races and they experience their first big race without them... there wil be a hue and cry to make them legal period.

 

Not passing judgement, just doing my best Karnak the Magnificent impression.


  • tonyp likes this
Richard L. Hofer

Remember, two wrongs don't make a right... but three lefts do! Only you're a block over and a block behind.

#6 Noose

Noose

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,223 posts
  • Joined: 08-November 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denville, NJ

Posted 19 January 2016 - 07:22 AM

I forgot to add that a lot of these Lolas, Ferraris, short Tis, etc., are still available from Parma, Outisight, Electric Dreams, and Scott at PCH has many of these on his website.  :)

 

And there is your  reason for doing this.

 

Now, the depth of those side dams are far bigger than the Parma Ti22s both the NN and square nose but they are illegal but supply of those is plentiful.

:dash2:


Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"

"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#7 JimF

JimF

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,953 posts
  • Joined: 20-June 07
  • Gender:Male

Posted 19 January 2016 - 10:08 AM

The shorter spoiler on certain bodies has been the tool that we have used in NorCal to equalize the playing field. It seems to work very well. Looking in from the outside... it would seem that shortening the spoiler on the Ti long nose might be simpler than allowing all sorts of add-ons to other bodies.

 

Of course that would make the Ti a tad slower and god knows... we can't have that.


  • tonyp and Tim Neja like this
Jim Fowler

#8 jimht

jimht

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,236 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Alamo City

Posted 19 January 2016 - 10:14 AM

Would be easier and less work to just ban the Ti22... kidding :D .

 

As long as the aerodynamics are critical, one body will always tend to dominate.

 

Still, it can't hurt to experiment and the results will be interesting to see.


Jim Honeycutt

"I don't think I'm ever more 'aware' than I am right after I hit my thumb with a hammer." - Jack Handey [Deep Thoughts]


#9 old & gray

old & gray

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 479 posts
  • Joined: 15-April 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:CT

Posted 19 January 2016 - 10:22 AM

And the answer to the Matra MS80 dominating the F1 field is... no problem?


  • MSwiss and Noose like this
Bob Schlain

#10 Wizard16

Wizard16

    On The Lead Lap

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 280 posts
  • Joined: 10-May 14
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Houston, TX

Posted 19 January 2016 - 10:27 AM

Bryan,

 

I admire your efforts to change up the dynamics. I'm guessing that more racers will come out initially just to see and that they will be easier to drive.

 

Whether the law of unintended consequences goes into effect is a totally different question. 


  • MSwiss, Uncle Fred, Tim Neja and 1 other like this
Diana Dyckman

#11 JohnnySlotcar

JohnnySlotcar

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,935 posts
  • Joined: 26-August 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Barrington, IL

Posted 19 January 2016 - 10:34 AM

Why not try a "weight penalty" for the long Tis. Test and see what a minimum weight or so will do for equalizing.

 

Just an old dudes thoughts.


  • Mike Patterson likes this
John Austin

#12 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,415 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 19 January 2016 - 10:59 AM

Bryan,

Your "my dog ate my homework/ the marshals damaged my Lotus turbine" crowd will probably have a field day getting those side dams to fold down like wing cars, and act like it's incidental.

IMO, your "too much aero is evil" but " experimenting with add-on aero to get an advantage over the other guy is OK" approach  makes you look like a hypocrite.


  • Noose and Tim Neja like this

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#13 Half Fast

Half Fast

    Keeper Of Odd Knowledge

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,910 posts
  • Joined: 02-May 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NYC, Long Island

Posted 19 January 2016 - 11:04 AM

Just use the Parma bodies!

 

The cure is worse than the disease

 

Problem solved.

 

Cheers


  • MSwiss, Noose, tonyp and 2 others like this

Bill Botjer

Faster then, wiser now

 

 


#14 Mark Wampler

Mark Wampler

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,003 posts
  • Joined: 17-July 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Santa Maria, CA

Posted 19 January 2016 - 12:30 PM

Cool, since our hobby should be about fun,  and its for the LOCALS who want something new to play with, its all good.

I can think of a few bodies that I've whacked off too short in the front, that a diaplane would fix right up.  I think especially for the Flat track, this allowance would be beneficial.  Adding weight to a flat track car body is better than adding weight to a King track body.  I'm gong to try to get down to BP more often this year for a few monthly races, Lord willing :)


  • JerseyJohn likes this
You can quote me.

-Mark

#15 John Miller

John Miller

    This space for rent

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,149 posts
  • Joined: 12-November 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hartford, MI

Posted 19 January 2016 - 01:31 PM

It seems hypocritical to admonish this action considering the recent IRRA ruling for Parma gear lightening. To me, Bryan is doing the same thing, and that is discovering a way for the racers to utilize the non-competitive equipment that they have in their cash of equipment.

Also, to assume that this body enhancement will eventually be permanent is no different than pondering if the IRRA racers will demand gear lightening for the Koford and Cahoza gears.
  • Tim Neja likes this

"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

ProSlot.png
 
 


#16 Dan Ebert

Dan Ebert

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,069 posts
  • Joined: 01-March 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Erie, PA

Posted 19 January 2016 - 01:37 PM

Hahahahahahah. It's a three-way. That didn't take long.


  • JerseyJohn and Samiam like this
GallerymanDan

#17 Mark Wampler

Mark Wampler

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,003 posts
  • Joined: 17-July 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Santa Maria, CA

Posted 19 January 2016 - 01:48 PM

Well, seems to me that everyone visiting main events at BP won't have a thing to worry about. 


You can quote me.

-Mark

#18 raisin27

raisin27

    On The Lead Lap

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 406 posts
  • Joined: 11-March 13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Garden City, MI

Posted 19 January 2016 - 02:34 PM

It seems hypocritical to admonish this action considering the recent IRRA ruling for Parma gear lightening. To me, Bryan is doing the same thing, and that is discovering a way for the racers to utilize the non-competitive equipment that they have in their cash of equipment.

Also, to assume that this body enhancement will eventually be permanent is no different than pondering if the IRRA racers will demand gear lightening for the Koford and Cahoza gears.

 

John,

 

I don't like the gear rule either, but that's not what this post is about.


  • Mike Patterson and Bernie like this

Michael Garrett

 

Proud to drive an American car, from an American manufacturer, assembled by American workers.

 

 I own a car from each of the big 3, I have a Ford, a Mercury, and a Lincoln.


#19 John Streisguth

John Streisguth

    Johnny VW

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,793 posts
  • Joined: 20-November 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bangor, PA

Posted 19 January 2016 - 04:43 PM

Apples to oranges, IMO.

 

But anyway, Bryan, since you are going to what may be considered an "extreme" measure, why not allow the Parma bodies (Can-Am only) as well?  It would make an interesting comparison, and certainly no one should have any complaints about body availability.  If you find the Parma bodies have a distinct aero advantage, do as Jim F. suggests and cut down the spoilers.  

 

Just a thought...


"Whatever..."

#20 JerseyJohn

JerseyJohn

    Posting Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,877 posts
  • Joined: 05-September 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Northern NJ

Posted 19 January 2016 - 04:48 PM

Raisin,

There are several people that don't like Swiss, Noose, and the IRRA® and will grind on about anything they say or decisions they make... It always seems the ones that complain about the IRRA® are the ones that don't race under the rules or infrequently at best.

My hat is off to Bryan and the SCRRA for trying something different..


  • Tim Neja, Dave Reed, Tom Eatherly and 2 others like this
JJ TRADE MARK BANNER copy.jpg

John Chas Molnar

"Certified Newark Wise Guy since 1984" (retired)
"Certified Tony P Chassis God since 2007"
" Internationally Know Slot Car Racing Celebrity "
https://www.facebook...nchassisworks/#
Email me
 


#21 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,415 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 19 January 2016 - 04:49 PM

Apples to oranges, IMO.


Yes.
 
I'll tell Bryan he's lost his mind, in a public post, just like I have told him in PMs in the past.
 
And I especially will, as already alluded to by others, when he titles his post as he did.

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#22 Mark Wampler

Mark Wampler

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,003 posts
  • Joined: 17-July 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Santa Maria, CA

Posted 19 January 2016 - 04:56 PM

:scratch_one-s_head:


You can quote me.

-Mark

#23 Uncle Fred

Uncle Fred

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,262 posts
  • Joined: 29-September 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Trophy Club, TX

Posted 19 January 2016 - 05:04 PM

Why not just allow gluing the track if you're running a non competitive body  and can prove that the manufacturer is overstocked? :bomb:


Fred Correnti

#24 usadar

usadar

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,141 posts
  • Joined: 12-January 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tokyo; Japan

Posted 19 January 2016 - 05:15 PM

SCRRA looks on the way toward liberalization.

No more hand-out motors for King track races at their major events.
Free change of motors/rear-tires after the tech during racing other than move-ups.
More liberal air-controls (side-dams and diaplanes), although presently limited to the Can-Am bodies other than Ti22 Kirby at their monthly races.

As long as BPR racers like those changes, they can go wherever they may like.

Personally I prefer the last D3 rules at the 2012 Checkpoint Cup to the present SCRRA regulation.

Most local tests & changes became their major event rules, so I am afraid 2017 CPC may see a full grid of air-controlled T160s.

If we race there with such a change, however, Team Tokyo will make the maximum use of the changed rules to stay competitive.

Good racing,

Haruki
  • MSwiss, Darkron9, Tim Neja and 3 others like this
Haruki Kan
Retro Tokyo
Retro Tokyo
Retro Tokyo on Facebook
 
Where do we go from here: chaos or community?

#25 JerseyJohn

JerseyJohn

    Posting Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,877 posts
  • Joined: 05-September 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Northern NJ

Posted 19 January 2016 - 05:25 PM

It's as easy as that!!!

Well spoken, Haruki-San.
JJ TRADE MARK BANNER copy.jpg

John Chas Molnar

"Certified Newark Wise Guy since 1984" (retired)
"Certified Tony P Chassis God since 2007"
" Internationally Know Slot Car Racing Celebrity "
https://www.facebook...nchassisworks/#
Email me
 






Electric Dreams Online Shop