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Lightened Parma crown gears


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#51 Noose

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 11:21 AM

JJ will start a gear lightening company now.  "No Mas" Weight.


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#52 Bill from NH

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 11:49 AM

I might make a couple gears  for my hard body jalopies, but they'll be too labor-intensive to make for others. :)


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#53 MSwiss

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 12:12 PM

Bill we are talking about rotating mass as opposed to static weight.

Back in my bicycling days, the phrase was 1 off the wheels is like 2 off the frame.

As long as you're not dipping into reliability issues, lighter can never just on stuff like gears and wheels.
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#54 Matt Sheldon

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 12:13 PM

Pablo,

 

The thicker original Koford gears were a problem like that.  So are the Red Fox ones on some frames.  The new Koford ones are not a problem at all.

 

M671-28.jpg

Always had good luck with the Koford, but for some reason the boss seems soft as I strip these out on a regular basis. 


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#55 Noose

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 12:22 PM

I have stripped Red Fox ones too.  Heavy handed. Learned it from Tony.  More damn allen wrench tips replaced too.


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Joe "Noose" Neumeister
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#56 Pablo

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 12:43 PM

After John Clow had crowns come loose a few times, I told him "If ya ain't strippin' one every now and then, ya ain't tightening 'em enough" :laugh2:


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#57 Bill from NH

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 12:59 PM

Do we need to use Bristol spine screws once again? :good:


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#58 MSwiss

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 01:03 PM

I know it's harder to get your adjustment, but guys should really use flats.

Look at almost any kind of industrial motor, like you see on a table saw.

They have big ole flats ground into the shaft.

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#59 Jim Lange

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 01:04 PM

I have re drilled, tapped and machined the Parma gears with very limited success, not to mention it's a HUGE pain in the Arse. The Koford light weight crown is far superior and has a much better mesh right from the start. Brian does a great job on these, not sure how his time is worth so little.


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#60 Pablo

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 01:28 PM

I like the Koford wing car axle/gear setups where you know it's all balanced as a package


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#61 Wizard16

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 01:34 PM

This is rather amusing. As a mid pack racer this makes no difference to me. I can hand my car to Howie or Bryan and they'll run.5 quicker than me without any practice. Instead of spending the time on the gear, spend it on the track. There are very few drivers where this will make any difference at all.


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#62 Noose

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 01:35 PM

 Instead of spending the time on the gear, spend it on the track. There are very few drivers where this will make any difference at all.

Someone finally gets it.  WooHoo!


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Joe "Noose" Neumeister
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#63 Matt Sheldon

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 01:44 PM

This is rather amusing. As a mid pack racer this makes no difference to me. I can hand my car to Howie or Bryan and they'll run.5 quicker than me without any practice. Instead of spending the time on the gear, spend it on the track. There are very few drivers where this will make any difference at all.

Mental feel goods help us feel victorious as well. If not then why doesn't everyone just run a white body?


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#64 Pablo

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 01:53 PM

My ears are burning :D  I'm destined for mid pack also, but I won't let that stop me from building the best cars I can.

Spending time on a track, for me, means a minimum of 10 hours round trip driving.

Building is instant gratification :)


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#65 tonyp

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 02:01 PM

i got my gears all cut up. I should be 3 to 4 tenths faster tomorrow.
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#66 MSwiss

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 02:12 PM

Just got the new Koford 27T's in.

They're pretty light, stock.

20160122_130917-1.jpg
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#67 kvanpelt

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 02:17 PM

LOL!


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#68 The Number of

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 02:32 PM

They will be easy to send via air mail.
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#69 MSwiss

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 02:40 PM

They will be easy to send via air mail.

Yes.

 

My customers will be surprised when they see -$6.95 postage on them*. :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*and they get them the day before they ordered them.


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#70 Uncle Fred

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 04:11 PM

Imagine if you drilled them out how light they would be!


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#71 Les Boyd

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 10:30 PM

The first thing that I noticed about the Koford gear is the the mounting boss is smaller in diameter. And the set screw is shorter. That means that you will not have to cut the motor shaft to get it to clear the gear, and a reduction in weight.
But that also mesns ths t there is less material for the set screw.20160128_210608.jpg 20160128_210426.jpg

#72 Phil Hackett

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 12:04 AM

I don't have a drill press, don't want one and more than half our racers don't have one.  Ruined is the magic word.  LOL
By the time you go through all of this you might as well buy a Red Fox or Koford gear.

 

I'm guessing that all these people who build their own chassis also have Dremels and perhaps a speed controlled one at that. With a minimum of fixture building you have a cheap simple drill press. Making the the jig to hold the gear is so obvious I won't even describe  it (other than WHEN you drill the hole is important). 


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#73 Samiam

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 06:54 AM

I will simply spin on a Dremil and run a file on it. Easy peazy lemon sqeezy.

 

This should get me into the A-Main,right? :laugh2:


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#74 Upfront slot cars

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 07:36 AM

This gear talk is like wiping your A$$ with a hoola hoop, there is no end to it. I can see both sides of the the gear though. If I was retired with plenty of time on my hands, I would sure love to play around with the gears. I love a good challenge, but my time is worth a lot more than the koford and red fox gears cost. Also a lot of people should remember that when you want to run in the A main and win races , you don't pay attention to time or money. If you are hungry to win , you will do what ever it takes to come up with what you need. I learned this a long time ago racing 1/1 cars.
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#75 A. J. Hoyt

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 11:35 AM

Interesting pair of photos, Les. With those photos, everyone should now easily see that the thickness of the sleeve is useless to the set screw as that part is not tapped. This is why the diameter of the Parma hub is bigger - to get a proper number of turns in the tapped hole to engage the set screw.
 
Once the dimensions of the Parma hub was set (intended to be used with a 1/8" axle), the sleeve was necessary for what is, arguably, the most common use - on 3/32" axles.
 
If folks at Parma wanted to, they could make a smaller diameter hub that could only be used for the 3/32" axles, like the Koford and Red Fox gears but, at this point, would require a new investment in tooling. I think that would reduce the weight enough that there would be parity between the gears but it seems it is too much to ask. Now, it will seem that everyone at every level will have this nagging pull to modify their Parma gears to be competitive.
 
For those of us who used to love just buying a gear and going from package to race car, we will now have another excuse for why we are not as fast as the guys with the drilled gears ...
 
The truth is closer to Diana's post #61.

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#76 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 11:45 AM

Smoother gear mesh and gears that are not wobbly will outperform always...I'll pay for that extra .05-.1 seconds. 


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#77 Matt Sheldon

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 12:59 PM

If you take the time to boil the gear, adhesive set the sleeve and burn in the mesh, the Parma can be as good as the rest. I get it that is a lot of work for a gear, but there are some instances where the Parma is a better application for fitment reasons.

 

Lots of big races have been won using the Parma.


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#78 Cap Henry

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 02:24 PM

I still prefer the Parma gear, if you ever get one that wobbles badly, set the mesh slightly tight and run the car on the power supply with a lighter to the gear, it'll really help.

 

The Red Fox and Koford gears are really nice gears too. I did some testing back to back to back, and the car ran within .01 with all 3 gears. Now that its legal to work on the parma gears slightly, I look forward to tinkering with them 


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#79 Half Fast

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 03:59 PM

If you take the time to boil the gear, adhesive set the sleeve and burn in the mesh, the Parma can be as good as the rest.

 

Matt please explain what "boiling" the gear means.

 

Cheers


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#80 Noose

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 04:00 PM

It's witchcraft Bill. 


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The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#81 Bill from NH

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 04:01 PM

Noose, play fair! :laugh2:


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#82 Noose

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 04:07 PM

I am and you can name your color of Witch's Brew!

tumblr_nvf41k09WX1ro9vlto1_500.jpg


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Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
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The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#83 Half Fast

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 04:12 PM

Damn I have been stir frying them all this time!. :)

 

But inquiring minds still want to know about boiling.

 

 

Puzzled


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#84 Samiam

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 05:12 PM

Boiling adds less cholesterol.

 

But seriously , it makes the plastic more durable. But I will only be dying them black with RIT.


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#85 DPmax

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 05:15 PM

Take super chilled Mt Dew add it to a metal bowl with the gear and place it over a pot of boiling water, you want to make a double boiler (Google it if you don't know how). Once the Mt Dew starts to boil wait about 30 seconds then take the gear out and allow it to cool. Depending on the size of the bowl you may have to use more than one can of Mt Dew, you want the gear to be well submerged. For some reason canned Mt Dew works better than bottled.


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Max Bowers

#86 Noose

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 06:03 PM

Do not use "Dewshine" though
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Joe "Noose" Neumeister
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The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#87 Les Boyd

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 06:17 PM

Post #66 explains why I kept loosing the Koford gears out of my box...... they where floating away.



#88 Matt Sheldon

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 06:31 PM

Max is absolutely correct about the double boiler.


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#89 Markg

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 07:15 PM

As i've been following all this gear stuff, Seem's to me this is all for parma gears to be more competitive with the red fox and koford gears that are lighter.Correct? What happens when red fox and/or koford start offering their gears drilled and lightened? I'd guess it will happen as they spent the time and money to bring a more competitive item to market , they will want to keep that edge..It's what they do as MFG's


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#90 tonyp

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 08:10 PM

I guess Parma will be shite out of luck. Lol.
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"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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#91 Markg

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 08:26 PM

Good one Tony!lol

 

 

Somehow I still think this is just the beginning of the gear issue...lol


Mark Greene


#92 Brinkley47

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 08:27 PM

Is this boiling thing real? What does it do to the gear?
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#93 Bill from NH

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 08:56 PM

In the '70s we were boiling nylon guides to relief any internal stresses introduced by the molding process.


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#94 Mike Patterson

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 09:24 PM

Once again a simple matter has been made more complicated for no apparent reason. Why can't people resist the urge to fix something that isn't broken?


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#95 Markg

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 10:27 PM

Once again a simple matter has been made more complicated for no apparent reason. Why can't people resist the urge to fix something that isn't broken?

 

it's evolution...lol


Mark Greene


#96 Samiam

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Posted 30 January 2016 - 03:06 AM

 What happens when red fox and/or koford start offering their gears drilled and lightened?

 

Noose will say: "No approval for you" :big_boss: 


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#97 Noose

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Posted 30 January 2016 - 08:01 AM

Nope Sam. If they make them they are legal.

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#98 Samiam

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Posted 30 January 2016 - 08:44 AM

So all commercially produced items are approved? OK. I thought they had to get a "nod' of approval.


Sam Levitch
 
When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything is a nail.
Support your local raceway, or you won't have one.
Slot cars are quad-pods.
Support your "Local Racer."
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#99 Noose

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Posted 30 January 2016 - 08:47 AM

They make a gear. What needs to be approved?

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"

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The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#100 MSwiss

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Posted 30 January 2016 - 10:13 AM

If anyone thinks being able to run a highly modified .98G gear up against 1.1G stock gear, is going to knock the Retro world off it's axis, they are highly mistaken.

No one could eliminate enough variables in testing, to conclusively prove, the .98G gear is faster.
  • Phil Hackett, Half Fast, NSwanberg and 1 other like this

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