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New Retro F1 square rails


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#1 Pablo

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Posted 27 January 2016 - 09:43 AM

John Clow's old Pablo F1 was getting tired so we retired it to the Boneyard. It handled well, so John wanted another with square tubing rails.

 

-FSF 3/4" bracket

-Chicagoland .032 backagra, sans ears

-PCH BB's

-JK long F1 rear axle and front wheels

-Turning Man tongue

 

IMG_9319.JPG

 


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#2 Dennis David

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Posted 27 January 2016 - 11:14 AM

Well this is a teaser ...

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#3 SlowBeas

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Posted 27 January 2016 - 12:28 PM

I agree, Dennis. Pablo enjoys torturing us.

 

I always enjoy reading his descriptions, though. The man is creative, if nothing else!

jb


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#4 Bill from NH

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Posted 27 January 2016 - 01:13 PM

Is that "Pablo" tag going to fit inside that 3/4" FSF motor bracket? :)


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How old should a highway be before you tell it, that it has been adopted?


#5 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 27 January 2016 - 01:31 PM

I am sure he can adjust it to fit.


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#6 Pablo

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Posted 27 January 2016 - 02:34 PM

I didn't mention the Professor Motor bracket because I'm not 100% sure I can make it do what I want it to.

Patience, Grasshopper :D


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#7 Bill from NH

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Posted 27 January 2016 - 04:30 PM

I don't know what you're trying to get it to do, but it won't need all sorts of internal braces. :good:


Bill Fernald
 

How old should a highway be before you tell it, that it has been adopted?


#8 SlotStox#53

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Posted 27 January 2016 - 04:38 PM

I don't know what you're trying to get it to do, but it won't need all sorts of internal braces. :good:


Oh I don't know Bill, Pablo always finds time for some bracket bracing :D :laugh2:

#9 MSwiss

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Posted 27 January 2016 - 04:42 PM

I'm going to guess Pablo is going to use the PM bracket to either;

 

A) outer supports for the rear axle tube.

 

B) some sort of front axle bracket/support.


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#10 Pablo

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Posted 27 January 2016 - 04:56 PM

A) close, but no cigar.

B) nope. My newer chassis haven't had any failures there.

 

Since y'all love to guess, I'll give a hint: there won't be much left when I'm done with it :laugh2:


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#11 Bill from NH

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Posted 27 January 2016 - 05:01 PM

Since you got two motor brackets, you ought to make a 4-wheel drive car. Bunky would appreciate that, but I don't know if John would. :bomb:


Bill Fernald
 

How old should a highway be before you tell it, that it has been adopted?


#12 Pablo

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Posted 27 January 2016 - 06:40 PM

OK Bill, back to the job at hand..... :laugh2:

BB's are soaking in lighter fluid to remove any factory applied protective lubes, films, or coatings

IMG_9325.JPG

 

I started by blueprinting the motor bracket. It was close to being perfect right out of the bag, and didn't take long to make it flat with 90 degree bends.

The BB, crown, and motor in the photo are just jig tools.

IMG_9322.JPG

 

 This time I was careful to plan the motor box using the biggest pinion and widest crown the car will ever use. 

 

This is going to be the first retro car I've ever built without rear axle tubes.

I have a plan, but no guarantee it will work to my satisfaction :)


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#13 Pablo

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Posted 27 January 2016 - 08:53 PM

Chicagoland brace trimmed to size for a good fit

 

IMG_9341.JPG

 

Tacked in place.  Some gap between parts here is tolerable in allowance for solder to pool :D

 

IMG_9343.JPG

 

Then checked underneath with a level before fully soldering it into the bracket

 

IMG_9347.JPG


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#14 Bill from NH

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Posted 27 January 2016 - 09:29 PM

In the '70s I cleaned motor bearings of their lubricants with an ultrasonic cleaner before soldering them in. Later, I learned how to make & solder in a pillow block that held a glued-in bearing.

 

Axle bearings were always glued in. My Toronto friend Pete used to say placing the bearings as far outward as you can would eliminate some harmonics. I don't know whether this is true or not, but I've seen retro cars built without rear axle tubes since D3 first started.


Bill Fernald
 

How old should a highway be before you tell it, that it has been adopted?


#15 slotcarone

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Posted 27 January 2016 - 11:47 PM

The FSF brackets are usually very close to square!! Build on!! :)


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#16 Pablo

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 11:24 AM

My idea with the PM bracket was to slice off the tabs where the bearings go, butt them up against the outside of the FSF, solder and through-bolt them with micro fasteners.

By trimming the narrowed areas on the bottom of the sides, they would lay on top of, and be soldered to, the (.093 tall) rails.

The goal being having solid holes of proper size for the BB's without having to use any tubes.

 

But I've decided against it. Too many things could go wrong and/or prevent it from working.

I plan to simply sleeve and solder the existing holes with brass tubing, flush with the outsides.

They'll protrude just enough inside to cover the BB for a Loctite 271 bond.


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#17 Bill from NH

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 01:44 PM

How thick is that FSF bracket? In the photos it looks to be .050". If it is, you won't have to worry about the side legs moving, especially with the your square main rails soldered along them. For an absolute immovable motor bracket, read Steve Okeefe's scratchbuilt.com article on making them from square steel tubing.


Bill Fernald
 

How old should a highway be before you tell it, that it has been adopted?


#18 Pablo

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 05:41 PM

FSF bracket is .050" thick.

Cool Okeefe article, I hadn't seen that one before.

 

But steel brackets aren't legal in IRRA®.


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#19 MSwiss

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 05:46 PM

So the FSF bracket is set up for axle tubes?

Mike Swiss
 
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#20 Pablo

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 06:06 PM

Some are, others aren't. This one is.


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#21 slotcarone

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 07:01 PM

The wide FSF brackets were made for no axle tubes. The 3/4 and 1 inch used tubes from what I have found. :D


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#22 Pablo

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 09:11 PM

Thanks Mike K, I'm pretty sure you nailed the FSF bracket info :good:

Chicagoland brace is secured, bracket is rock solid and flat at ground zero

IMG_9350.JPG

 

But when I double-checked the angles, I found some things that had changed when heat was applied.

So I Sharpied the places where material needs to be removed to make it perfect again.

Then I goes to the disc sander for a new truing

IMG_9352.JPG

 

Metals move when heated. This is the first time I've seen this, but my point is, I always check as I build.

Retro chassis don't have to be perfect to work well. But when everything is flat and straight it just fits together better.

 

 


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#23 slotcarone

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 09:45 PM

I have used a lot of FSF chassis parts and brackets and they work very well. The bracket although strong by itself will collapse in a wall crash if not braced from the motor mounting flange with a u brace to the bearing uprights.. They are cut so low at the face that it actually weakens it.


Mike Katz

Scratchbuilts forever!!


#24 Pablo

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 10:56 PM

Concur, Mike K. I know it needs a top wire brace, but it will come later :)

I think my (blueprinted) disc sander agrees with my eyes:

IMG_9359.JPG

 

 


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#25 Pablo

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 01:46 PM

Alignment setup. Aluminum tube with a spacer between the sleeves sized to maintain their positions .039 inside the bracket

IMG_9371.JPG

 

Alignment check

IMG_9382.JPG

 

Excess cut off and disc sanded until almost flush, then wet sanded with 400 grit until flat

IMG_9388.JPG

 

BB shown is just a dummy (the new ones are bathing in Mobil One :) )

IMG_9406.JPG

 

Now, where did I put that doggone square tubing ? :laugh2:


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