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Wing racer gone Retro! :)


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#1 Chubby

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 01:06 AM

So first off I want to say that I'm enjoying Retro racing so much. I never imagined it would be like it is and what it has become. I have had tons of help from everyone getting me some wins here and there and for that I'm very thankful.
 
I want to talk about some subjects that I catch on here and Facebook from time to time.  
 
I want to talk about the JK Retro Hawk. I see people talk good and bad about these motors, some things I have seen is you need 10 to get one good one. When I first read that from multiple people, I was kind of shocked. Are some motors better than others? Sure, every time, even when you custom-build $700 Group 7 motors that have identical specs.  
 
Now some of you may believe me or may not believe me, I'm not here to judge, I'm just here to tell you my experience with these motors. When I go to a race and, for example, I race two classes that day, I will buy two motors and put them in my cars, and break them in, in the car itself. I have yet to be underpowered IMO to a point where I lost a race, at least that I think.  
 
I honestly think that how you break them in is everything! I race these motors every week at my local shop (PJ Raceway) in three different classes and i cannot tell you how close racing is on a weekly basis. I'm not here to argue with anyone, I enjoy racing Retro very much and tend to get along with everyone and want to keep it that way.
 
But I cannot express myself any better when I say 8 out of 10 JK Retro Hawk motors can win a Premier Event. I'm totally shocked actually on how consistent they are from one another because how they're made and where they're made. These are motors that are nothing special spec-wise, which I'm sure we all can agree on.  
 
I think you need to be patient enough while breaking these motors in. I have had motors that in 10 laps are where I want them to be, and I have motors that take 100+ laps to be where I want them to be. Don't give up on the motors that don't run after 100+ laps; I've been in that situation a lot.  
 
Well, I think I'm done with this little rant, I feel better now.  :)
 
Thanks, guys 'n gals,
 
Chubby
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#2 MSwiss

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 01:35 AM

Awesome post, Chubb.

Should be good for 100+ comments on FB Slot Car Race Talk tomorrow.

I hope Ron's and Mill's fingers don't catch fire. LOL.


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#3 James Grandi

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 03:20 AM

Chubby, you gotta come race more! Been missing you at the other RE races this season!

 

I agree that how you break the motors in is key. I was doing them in water and then a brief amount of track time before, and it worked well for a while. Lately (last couple races) I've been running them for a few minutes on a power supply, then in the car and cycled until it finally shifts into second gear. 


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#4 slotcarone

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 06:31 AM

Great to see you here and of course to have you racing with us, Chubby!!

 

I agree totally about the RH motors. So what is your method of choice for break-in?


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#5 Noose

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 07:00 AM

Chubby told me this in person. I also like a previous quote of his:

 

"I was a hater but now I am a believer."

 

That coming from one of the predominate slot racers of our era says it all to me. And racing against him is a blast!


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#6 Brinkley47

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 08:14 AM

Well said, Chubby. Hope to see you at the RetroPalooza!


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#7 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 08:20 AM

Well said, Chubby. I lose races all the time with Retro Hawk motors, but it is not because of the motor. 


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#8 Joe Mig

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 08:27 AM

So let me ask you, Chubby, what is your choice of mounting the motor, using the screws or soldering the motor in?

I've been a big on the proper way of breaking-in a motor and using it and over the years I might have only gotten a few duds.


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#9 Brian Cochrane

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 08:52 AM

Nice post, Chub...


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#10 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 08:53 AM

Retro guys are wise guys.


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#11 Cheater

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 09:16 AM

So what is your method of choice for break-in?


Mike, if I'm reading Chubby's initial post correctly, he breaks-in his Retro Hawks in the cars.

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#12 Les Chase

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 09:22 AM

I'm only able to race two or three times a year. It's great that I can buy a motor at the track the morning of the race, and work on my car, not worry about the motor. And racing with Retro East I need to work on my car and driving. I don't even think about the motor, it's always fast.
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#13 kvanpelt

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 09:35 AM

Way to go, Chubby, now you've ruined it for all those guys that believe it is all about the motor!
 
What's next, you going to tell them all that lightened gears don't do squat?
 
:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:
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#14 Matt Sheldon

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 09:53 AM

Awesome post!
 
I am still using my water method as I have not been able to duplicate the results with either track break-in or dry. Either way I have never had a complete dud.
 
I did recently purchase a Trinity Motor Machine and will be trying various methods that I have been advised on.
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#15 Half Fast

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 10:02 AM

Welcome to the club, Chubb!
 
Keep practicing, kid, you'll be good some day! :D
 
Cheers,
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#16 Chubby

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 01:19 PM

Joe Mig and others, I put the motor in the car with solder usually, last race was the first race I used screws and I think I might like it better, time will tell.

As for breaking it in, I put the motor in the car, 15-20 laps, let it fully cool down, oil the can bushing only, and repeat steps. After 75 laps I put a dot of oil on endbell. Also don't be shy about oiling the can bushing as much as you want.  :)


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#17 Noose

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 01:27 PM

Great advice, Joe. I use screws and solder the top in. Do not tighten completely, solder, and then lock down the screws.  


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#18 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 02:53 PM

Are screws required under IRRA® rules?


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#19 Half Fast

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 02:54 PM

No.

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#20 John Streisguth

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 03:44 PM

I rarely solder mine in, my belief is the less heat you put into the magnets, the better.

But I put a bit of purple Loctite on the screw threads once I know which motor I'm putting through tech, to make sure they don't back out.
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"Whatever..."

#21 tonyp

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 03:47 PM

Pro Slots had to be soldered and screwed in because the back of the can bends so easily. FKs just need screws. Screw holes will outlast motor. LOL...

Plus, like John said, the less heat the better.
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#22 Wizard16

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 08:24 PM

Chubby,

 

Let PA Watson know how much fun you are having with Retro. He just shakes his head and mumbles when he sees my inline cars. Although he did enjoy driving my RetroPro anglewinder full plumber with an X12 on his Hillclimb.

 

Regards,


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#23 Tim Neja

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 08:49 PM

Wonderful that you're having so much fun with Retro!! That's what it's all about!! Are you racing on a King track? :)


She's real fine, my 409!!!

#24 Noose

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 09:07 PM

We race on four different Kings (each very different), an Engleman, and a couple of Hillclimbs. He has them all down.


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#25 usadar

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 07:28 AM

I really like what Chubby says in this post.

Many different alternatives to break-in Retro Hawks. Now I break-in them with some chemicals used for R/C motors. Looks fine to me.

But an initial break-in is the first step to seat brushes properly on comm.

Seems to me important is how you break-in them on the car at racing speed. Sam at Buena Park taught me to run the car for 20 laps, check the motor temperature, blow air to the comm, cool down, repeat this until finding out whether or not you like this RH. This worked good for me, so I will try this procedure a couple of more times.

In practice, Retro Hawks are the motors to run at IRRA® (except for Can-Am Plus).

Easy to complain about them on keyboards but you cannot win without bringing out the best of them.

Haruki


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#26 Alexander Blankenship

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 12:27 PM

Haruki,

 

How were your Retro Hawks at the Checkpoint Cup? Did you find that your best Retro Hawks at your own track were still good at Buena Park, or did you find that breaking-in motors that week at the track was better?



#27 usadar

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 04:43 PM

Alex,

The Hawks I had broken-in with some chemical on power supplies, not by running in the car in Tokyo, ran well on the King at Buena Park. Coming back from the Checkpoint Cup, I tried what I ran there on my Gerding in Tokyo. The good ones at Buena Park were good in Tokyo, too. My cars didn't do well at CPC not because of the motor performance but because my cars didn't have enough traction.

Now I am running IRRA® cars of minimum weight requirement of 100 grams for Can-Am and F1 with 9t pinions. These cars may need different Hawks from those used for SCRRA 90 gram cars with 10t pinions.

Haruki


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#28 Alexander Blankenship

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 06:40 PM

Haruki,
 
Why the switch to 9 tooth pinions?

#29 usadar

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 09:55 PM

Usually we use 10/27 or 10/28 ratios for SCRRA 90 gram cars.

9/28 or 9/29 fits better to 100-105 gram IRRA® Can-Am/F1 cars.

IRRA® approved bodies are apt to have more downforce, so smaller pinions seem better.

My track has much more track power at 14.2v than that of Buena Park; this is another reason.


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#30 Les Boyd

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 05:27 PM

I have a similar history, I thought the hand made brass and wire chassis where too fragile. But they have gotten much better over the years... decades and now I am hooked.
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