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This will not help slot car racing


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#51 John C Martin

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 09:57 AM

Hey, you OK, Mike. LOL...
 
I hope the last paragraph isn't true, that's bad decision-making... making money slot racing... drags, yes, but no fun there I see.




#52 Les Boyd

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 10:06 AM

I have been racing for 50 years and had horrible experiences and all of them are where money pay-outs were involved. Not just drag racing big money but local everyday races with money awards. When you get money into it, the nice friendly fun goes out the window.
 
You get a whole different type of attitudes.
 
I think that this is without a doubt one of the nicest facilities for slot car racing In the world. I thought that would be more than enough.
 
And I think Tracy deserves thanks and my hope and prayers are that all goes well.


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#53 Samiam

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 03:20 PM

One big event drag race that I attended about 11 years ago had money added to the purses. There so many people showed up that we where using the road course track for pit space. There where several fights that broke out over people handling other people's cars. I had to call my son to the track to guard my box.
 
And several times the racing had to be stoped because after a racer had prepped his lane someone had put oil on the track in an attempt to slow him down.
 
We started racing at 9 AM and the last run was at 12:50 AM the next morning. Many racers got tired of all the crap that was going on and just withdrew.
 
Does that sound like fun?
 
Worst experience ever.


That sounds like a people problem not a race problem. Those kinds of antics would get a racer banned for life. Sabotage can not be tolerated. But I've heard of similar nonsense at zero pay-out events as well.


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Sam Levitch
 
"If you have integrity, nothing else matters, and if you do not have integrity, nothing else matters."
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"... because people have got to know whether or not their president is a crook."

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#54 Markg

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 03:23 PM

Some tend to get really fast when they leave the raceway and then come back.
 
If Dan at Pro Slot thinks he is the only one with his seals, I would think again.


Seals are for fairies! If you can build a car, you should be able to build a simple motor... geeez!

Mark Greene


#55 tonyp

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 04:09 PM

Retro is about building chassis tuning and driving not building motors. Plenty of other classes out there for that.
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#56 Tim Neja

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 04:24 PM

Exactly! Go build motors for all those other classes that ask for it! Retro is different!! It's about the chassis – and the driver!! Not the motor!   :)
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#57 Greg VanPeenen

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 04:27 PM

Seals are for fairies! If you can build a car, you should be able to build a simple motor... geeez!


If you want to build really fast motors go race Group 7 open wing cars. They will only cost you about four bills a pop. LeaveRretro racing as it is, it needs no help from you. It is doing just fine.
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#58 smokie

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 04:30 PM

I'd prefer trophies myself. No matter how rich or poor you are, you're never gonna have enough money. Trophies are forever.


How about participant plaques for everyone, and really nice custom plaques for the podium winners? Or maybe a custom T-shirt as part of the entry fee or some type of souvenir to mark participation in the event?

just my $.02.
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#59 Phil Hackett

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 04:33 PM

Seals are for fairies! If you can build a car, you should be able to build a simple motor... geeez!

 
This is my take too but Retro is their club and they're happy with the way it is. That's a good thing! Happy people tend to spend more $$$ over a long period of time. The raceways and the industry in general need happy people who don't wish to deal with motors (although they'll spend endless hours fiddling with chassis, bodies, front wheels, guide flags, guide tongues, tires, set screw relocations, bearings/bushings, modifying wire, making jigs and fixtures... to me it's the different side of the same coin). There *are* plenty ways to race with the option of motor improvements... RetroPro in SoCal is one but it doesn't seem to attract the same entry level as the "normal" Retro run here. Perhaps that's a clue.
 
As for seals... they can be reproduced and installed by any one who has the motivation to go fast with a modified motor. Seals can be and are defeated. Routinely. (OK maybe not in the Retro series but I have seen and know of racers *and* motor companies who have done some pretty serious cheating under a "sealed/tagged" designation for motors. Don't be naive enough to believe it doesn't happen ever).
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#60 Danny Zona

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 05:18 PM

I've been to many big pay-out races. Terry Kelly did these every year. I never saw people cheating they just go far with the rules and then some (I was the tech nazi).
We didn't have any more arguments or meltdowns than I've seen on any Sat night.
 
So, Les, I think you should make this race... it'll change your mind... it's gonna be a ball. Seeing and racing all the great guys in both Retro series... I'd like to see some of this continue. IMO I think it'll help both series (IRRA® and RETRO).


I'm the same ***hole at any race. Hahaha.
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Test, test, test and go test some more.
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#61 Samiam

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 05:21 PM

I don't think Mark was directing that remark solely on Retro. The entire "sealed motor" environment is frustrating to the few who can or want to build motors. Gone are the days of Hardbody Stock Cars with S-Wasp C-cans or Womps with silver cans (16D). It seems all the entry level racing has turned to sealed motors. Does it insure all participants are playing fair? No, but it gives the impression of a level playing field. So participation increases.
 
Will the gleam of that pile of gold being offered at this race turn a few to the dark side and turn them into cheaters? I doubt it. The ones that have been cheating or at least attempting to cheat will do it even if the pay-out is zero.
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Sam Levitch
 
"If you have integrity, nothing else matters, and if you do not have integrity, nothing else matters."
      Robert Mueller, special counsel (2013)
 
"... because people have got to know whether or not their president is a crook."

    Richard M Nixon, Nov 17, 1973

 

" Fool me once, shame on...shame on you. Fool me...you can't get fooled again"

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#62 olescratch

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 05:34 PM

I agree 100% with Samiam. If a person is gonna cheat, he is gonna do it no matter what the "prize". Some people just can't stand to lose, and will do whatever they can to have the best chance of winning no matter what it takes!!! 

Wanna have a true test of skills, make it an IROC style event, cars and controllers provided by the host, racers rotate between lanes and cars!!!
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#63 Markg

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 05:46 PM

I don't think Mark was directing that remark solely on Retro. The entire "sealed motor" environment is frustrating to the few who can or want to build motors. Gone are the days of Hardbody Stock Cars with S-Wasp C-cans or Womps with silver cans (16D). It seems all the entry level racing has turned to sealed motors. Does it insure all participants are playing fair? No, but it gives the impression of a level playing field. So participation increases.

Will the gleam of that pile of gold being offered at this race turn a few to the dark side and turn them into cheaters? I doubt it. The ones that have been cheating or at least attempting to cheat will do it even if the pay-out is zero.

 
You're correct, general statement...
 
I also see a lot of complaints about sealed motors and how they aren't properly assembled leading to early failure... truth is what the truth is...
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#64 Markg

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 05:51 PM

If you want to build really fast motors go race group 7 open wing cars. They will only cost you about four bills a pop. Leave retro racing as it is, it needs no help from you. It is doing just fine.

 
 I have raced Gp-7 as well as every other slot car known to man... Started with HO at about four or five years old...  :dance3:

I'm also not trying to change anything, just a simple reply to a comment that was made. I do believe I'm intitled to a opinion. You don't have to like it... LOL.

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#65 Markg

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 06:03 PM

Retro is about building chassis tuning and driving not building motors. Plenty of other classes out there for that.

 
Tony, who are you kidding? Not me... LOL. I don't think anyone would say motors don't play a part... you know as well as I do, if there were properly assembled motors, people would be buying a lot less of them... as well as a lot less motor failure... The short of it is some are scared of building motors because of the smoke and mirrors created by racers; it really isn't rocket science...
 
Somewhere along the line some started believing they couldn't compete because of motors, that's why we have all this sealed crap being raced, the truth of it is it had little or nothing to do with building motors, it's always been about the whole package! Car build, set-up, and tune as well as driving skills... that's what it will always be as well!
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Mark Greene


#66 Cheater

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 06:14 PM

Mark,

Sorry, my friend, you simply don't get it. You're looking at the situation from a racer's perspective.

To ramp this hobby up to higher levels of particpation, we need to remove the time required to be a participant as much as is possible.

Taking the motors out of the equation is the smart thing to do.

For leisure-time activities, people have limited budgets of time and money. As far as I know, we can all make more money but we can't make more time.
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#67 Markg

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 06:28 PM

If that's truly the case, Greg, why aren't we racing ready to run flexis right out of the box? From what I see, it either takes a far amout of time or money to build or buy Retro cars... whats a pair of ball bearing fronts going for now? 25-30 bucks? Chassis anywhere from 80-200+?
 
It is what it is, but don't snake oil me. I'm not buying... LOL. Some seem to think i'm against Retro, nothing could be further from the truth...


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#68 bbr

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 06:29 PM

Fifty hours in the shop for one hour of racing. seem to run true for any sporting endeavor... practice, practice, test, test, prep, prep, more test, more test.
 
When I was running enduro karts, two weeks of prep for a race weekend.
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Mike Low
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Give me enough rope and I'll build a fast car... or hang myself?

#69 B.C.

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 07:29 PM

Last time I looked, Tracy owned the raceway in question – I suspect he who pays the bills should have some say so on what goes on inside that facility. If he chooses to run rubber bands for power, would there be all this whining over his rubber band was stronger than mine.

 

We support you, Tracy. You have what appears to be a huge investment in time, money and planning. Good luck with this endeavor.

b.c.


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#70 Markg

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 07:56 PM

Very true! He's just trying to do what he thinks best to attract the most racers to his raceway and make it as easy as he can for all racers to attend... That's why he's allowing both motors... Seems pretty simple. The slot community as a whole could learn from him wanting to work with everyone!!!
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Mark Greene


#71 bbr

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 08:39 PM

This is my take too but Retro is their club and they're happy with the way it is. That's a good thing! Happy people tend to spend more $$$$ over a long period of time. The raceways and the industry in general need happy people who don't wish to deal with motors (although they'll spend endless hours fiddling with chassis, bodies, front wheels, guide flags, guide tongues, tires, set screw relocations, bearings/bushings, modifying wire, making jigs and fixtures…. to me it's the different side of the same coin). There *are* plenty ways to race with the option of motor improvements… Retro Pro in SoCal is one but it doesn't seem to attract the same entry level as the "normal" Retro run here. Perhaps that's a clue.
 
As for seals…. they can be reproduced and installed by any one who has the motivation to go fast with a modified motor. Seals can be and are defeated. Routinely. (OK maybe not in the Retro series but I have seen and know of racers *and* motor companies who have done some pretty serious cheating under a "sealed/tagged" designation for motors. Don't be naive enough to believe it doesn't happen ever).

 

The more motor the better IMO, at least for my poor driving talents. 

 

With the seal motors you have to drive the heck out of the car to go fast.
With a lot of motor you don't necessary have to drive that hard, if you are smooth you go just as fast.

 

i discover this racing HO, with the open motor class I was able to keep up with the best of them even though I was not as good a pilot as the good guys.


Mike Low
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Give me enough rope and I'll build a fast car... or hang myself?

#72 Butters37

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 07:25 AM

All the big drag races with pay-outs are bracket races. It's not about motor. It's about running the predetermined time you select. The car must run that time. Any faster you lose. Pull the trigger too fast you lose. Run too slow you lose. A Group 7 and a Hawk can actually fairly run against each other down the track and both have an equal chance of winning.

So to say cash payouts can work in this as it does in drag racing is shortsighted. Retro could never be drag racing in terms of that.

Tracy has every right to do what he wants. His track his race. Go for it. Good luck and I personally hope it goes well.

For me... I'd say a true motor claim rule. After qualifying start at the last qualifier and ask who's motor he wants... repeat process up the ladder. If it's truly a fair race... with motors that are all the same... no one should have an issue. The motors are all the same. It's all about car and driver... not about motor building... right?


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#73 Butters37

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 08:29 AM

It's true. Whether it be that or ignorance. Facts are facts. And no cute googly eyes will change that
Jason Engel

#74 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 08:45 AM

Mark,

Sorry, my friend, you simply don't get it. You're looking at the situation from a racer's perspective.

To ramp this hobby up to higher levels of particpation, we need to remove the time required to be a participant as much as is possible.

Taking the motors out of the equation is the smart thing to do.

For leisure-time activities, people have limited budgets of time and money. As far as I know, we can all make more money but we can't make more time.

 

Well said! - I am that new racer - after cutting teeth in FL My Series I raced in Ralph's Outlaw Series.  Although I did not get 1, 2, or 3, I did qualify in the A Main many races and TQ'd GTP on a paperclip that I'd never seen. (It wasn't because I was rolling with DZ - he has never worked on my car, but that Kelly team advice does work - JC and Stan, too!)  I met many friends in Outlaw, just wish time and money and distance were not the obstacles... glad the Can-Am was in the classes - Retro guys are wize guys!


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#75 Samiam

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 10:38 AM

It's true. Whether it be that or ignorance. Facts are facts. And no cute googly eyes will change that

 

It is not ALL about the motor. Read... that is YOUR take on it. Nobody here is ignorant or ignoring any so-called facts.

 

It is about how the cash may make the overall atmosphere of the race too competitive and cause issues. No where does anyone make the motor a main issue.

 

And personal insults here are NOT welcome. :diablo:


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Sam Levitch
 
"If you have integrity, nothing else matters, and if you do not have integrity, nothing else matters."
      Robert Mueller, special counsel (2013)
 
"... because people have got to know whether or not their president is a crook."

    Richard M Nixon, Nov 17, 1973

 

" Fool me once, shame on...shame on you. Fool me...you can't get fooled again"

George W Bush






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