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This will not help slot car racing


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#101 jimht

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 03:54 PM

Oh good grief, no matter what, there will always be variations between motors.

 

Allowing disassembly, blueprinting and reassembly doesn't get rid of motor inequality, it just gets rid of the defective motors. Almost all motors are average, blueprinted or not. The percentage of rockets remains about the same regardless of tinkering.

 

Using sealed motors eliminates the hassle of building motors, period. The time saved can be used for other aspects of the car/racing. The fact that one may have to toss a dud may make racing more expensive money-wise, but sealed motors are still cheaper in terms of time than built motors.

 

Using sealed hand-outs really keeps costs controlled and is actually the most likely to be a crapshoot but it really saves time.

 

Regardless, the real motor problem is the racer not the motor. You just can't please all the people all the time.

 

The closest we can get to satisfaction/happiness at one event is to run three separate classes with identical rules except for the motor: sealed hand-outs, sealed, and built. The inherent problem with that is someone who wants to run in more than one class whining about how long it's all taking.

 

No one is saying that any one of the motor formats is perfect; they're all compromises. The incessant complaints about the flaws in the various formats fail to recognize that the flaws are built in to attain specific goals.

 

And that's what makes the complaints irritating and senseless: to propose changing any of the formats into one of the others is just a waste of time; they all have their place.

 

I'd be willing to wager, though, that a race that incorporated all three formats as separate events would have more entries in the sealed motor classes than the built.

 

Edit:

And BTW regarding the thread topic, semi-sealed motors are not sealed motors, the Pro Slot FK compromise may have its place, but it isn't sealed as well as a regular FK. It defeats the whole purpose behind sealed motors: the more sealed, the better.

 

The raceway holding this race will get entries because it is a fabulous place to go race and the type of cheap motors used and the cash prizes offered will have little or no impact on entries.


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#102 Noose

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 03:57 PM

Jim, it is seen now in several classes. One group allows the working on PDs. RetroPro is allowed motor work.

 

Entries way lower than other classes. 


Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"
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The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#103 MSwiss

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 05:20 PM

Oh good grief, no matter what, there will always be variations between motors.
 
Allowing disassembly, blueprinting and reassembly doesn't get rid of motor inequality, it just gets rid of the defective motors. Almost all motors are average, blueprinted or not. The percentage of rockets remains about the same regardless of tinkering.


Great post, Jim. You hit the nail on the head.
 
If building your own, or having someone who knows what he's doing, build it for you, provided some sort of equity, serious G12 wing racers would have three motors in their box, instead of, as many as they can afford.
 
Spending a lot of time, or money, on a perfectly spaced, reliable motor, really doesn't matter if it's a tenth slow, even with a well set-up and tuned car.
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#104 Ramcatlarry

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 05:38 PM

Raceways are encouraged to use the Parma Challenge Cup or the JK Spec Series rulebooks for ready to run cars... and the JK rules for Spec Retro are not that bad either... if you want to race ready to run cars.

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#105 Markg

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 07:13 PM

Building motors is not the answer. Did you ever race Box 12. when you build motors it just turns in to armature wars. You end up looking for that perfect arm to put into that set-up you just spent hours building. Or switching armatures and set-ups looking for the one. Then you get to the track and the guy who knows how to set up the air control better then you kicks your *** with a slower motor.

 
You made my point... LOL. Motors are just one part of the puzzle... but if it's assembled correctly one can feel pretty certain it isn't going to crap out in the middle of a race.

And yes, I raced Gp-12, normally I'd go racing with three or for motors.

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#106 Markg

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 07:19 PM

Lots of reasons, I believe.

Just how many manufacturers have RTR flexis readily available right now? And you know as well as I do that they're only Ready to Run, not Ready to Race.

It's been done for years at lots of raceways and guess what, it didn't get the racers' support at the level IRRA® racing has gotten. So we've been there, done that, and it didn't work to ramp up participation. Why would we continue to beat the dead horse?

Move down to the 1/32 world and you'll find that that is indeed the approach most 1/32 racing groups utilize.

 

 So you acknowledge then that it's not about the cheapest racing as you stated? 

 

Again, I'm not against IRRA or any other retro, just not buying some of the false statements being made as to why things are the way they are..Been doing this to long and know better...


Mark Greene


#107 Markg

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 07:22 PM

I believe the only answer to all this is hand-out motors. Good for the track owner, good for the racing, good all the way around.
 
Of course this is just my two cents.

 
This makes the most sence when it comes to these cheap motors!!! No power supply needed, we've all seen Chubby's post about breaking them in, in the car being the best. I'd listen to him, he's one of the best slot racers in the world...


Mark Greene


#108 Markg

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 07:34 PM

Yeah, kinda funny that out here in Retro East we have been racing for nine years with essentially the same rule set developed in 2007. It was the basis for the original IRRA® rules in which all groups at that time were inclusive.  It wasn't until D3 changed some things and splintered off.

 

Would you care to share with the racers what I told you would happen back then with the motor rules? We now know it happened just as I told you it would... I was a bad guy back then for saying it as well.. maybe now you know my intentions were pure and I just wanted to help you guys...


Mark Greene


#109 Noose

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 07:44 PM

Mark, lots of people had opinions.

 

When is the last time you raced Retro?


Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"
"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#110 tonyp

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 08:04 PM

LOL. Who cares?


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#111 Markg

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 08:19 PM

When is the last time you raced Retro?

 

It's been awhile, Noose. I do have some Retro stuff in my box and I'll be racing on the 12th in MD. What does that have to do with anything anyhow? I didn't race anything for years. I needed a break, of course it wasn't as long a break as you took... LOL.

 

Doesn't make any of what I know less valid does it?

 

BTW, Noose I know you'll never say I was right and that's OK. I still don't dislike you or Retro... just tried to be helpful...  :dash2:


Mark Greene


#112 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 08:21 PM

The answer to slot car racing is not here. It is at the track nearest you, or as far away as the track that runs what you desire.


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#113 Matt Sheldon

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 08:27 PM

Good chance what is here is what is at the track.


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#114 Noose

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 08:39 PM

No, Mark. We found out what the problem was and handled it. Had nothing to do with what you said. Enjoy Mimi's.


Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"
"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#115 Markg

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 08:41 PM

Yeah, OK... LOL.

Mark Greene


#116 Cheater

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 08:16 AM

So you acknowledge then that it's not about the cheapest racing as you stated?


Please quote me accurately, if you're going to quote me. Just where did I make such a statement, Mark?

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Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#117 Markg

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 07:16 PM

Sorry, my friend, you simply don't get it. You're looking at the situation from a racer's perspective.

To ramp this hobby up to higher levels of particpation, we need to remove the time required to be a participant as much as is possible.

Taking the motors out of the equation is the smart thing to do.

For leisure-time activities, people have limited budgets of time and money. As far as I know, we can all make more money but we can't make more time.


Limited budgets, sounds like you're saying cheap to me...

Anyway, have fun... I'm done with this place...


Mark Greene


#118 Cheater

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 07:56 PM

As you see fit, Mark...


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Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#119 Jay Mendoza

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 01:15 PM

When I worked for Tekin, we would order cases of Mabuchi motors and run them all on our dyno to sort them. We would run them on low voltage for 20 minutes before the dyno run to seat the brushes. As much as possible, we would sort the motors into groups of equal performance and then supply them to the tracks holding stock motor class events. You were given one sealed and serialized motor with your entry, and allowed one more additional motor for $10. After time qualifications, anyone could claim your motor before the heat races and main event. This stopped the cheating and bitching, and kept the cost of stock racing in check. Granted, this was R/C but the idea came from the old slot car guys.

Once, I was TQ, and someone claimed my motor.  Of course, the claimer had to give you their motor, and the funny thing was that it turned out to be a faster motor than the one that he claimed from me, so I won the A main handily due to that!

 

As far as creating an incentive/draw, the track owners would always have a raffle for a bunch of swag/merchadise donated by the manufacturers. You could win anything from a bottle of tire sauce to a complete new chassis, or free track time. Every racer got just one raffle ticket with their entry and had to be present to win.

 

For the money hungry, they had a second 50/50 raffle, tickets were a buck, where the winner got  50% of the raffle ticket sales in cash, the track got the other half.  This was immensly popular and helped the track owner as well.

 

One thing I noticed was because these raffles were always held AFTER the trophy presentation, every race entrant had a chance at winning a prize, regardless of how they finished the race. This was a great equalizer that was in a effect a consolation prize. Winning a raffle prize, for some, was more important than a trophy.


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#120 Dennis David

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 08:03 PM

That's why I like participant plaques.

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