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Mura Champion McLaren


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#1 Pablo

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Posted 22 March 2016 - 04:47 PM

Just a "fun car" - no rules.

Motor is a Pablo built Mura with Havlicek armature

Body is a Champion 311I McLaren M8B

IMG_0434.JPG

 

More to follow.


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Paul Wolcott




#2 havlicek

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Posted 22 March 2016 - 07:50 PM

 

 

Just a "fun car" - no rules.

 

Which is about as true to the tradition as it gets!  Build on!

 

-john


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John Havlicek

#3 SlotStox#53

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Posted 22 March 2016 - 07:57 PM

No rules cars are just the best :D
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#4 Bill from NH

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Posted 22 March 2016 - 08:56 PM

Well, you can't have a 6" wheel-to-wheel width, you ought to have a 1/16" chassis clearance front & rear.That's an old body, bet it came from AL. Paint it silver & white with fluorescent pink numbers, or send it to me & i will.   :shout:

 

A couple pre-build questions.

 

1.) Are you actually going to use that F1 interior with the McLaren Can Am body? :scratch_one-s_head:

 

2.) Why do manufacturers put 4 endbell mounting holes in cans? :scratch_one-s_head:   In case you strip 2 out? :scratch_one-s_head:

 

Build on!  :sun_bespectacled:


Bill Fernald

 

Exercise? I thought you said extra fries!  :crazy: 


#5 Samiam

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Posted 22 March 2016 - 10:27 PM

"No Rules" 60s style. I love it. :popcorm1:


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#6 Pablo

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 05:09 AM

Hmmm, Bill, should I use an ugly F1 driver and paint it myself, or open up a drawer full of painted Noose interiors and pick one ? :umnik2:


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#7 Bill from NH

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 06:12 AM

"No Rules" 60s style. I love it. :popcorm1:

 

That was "Run what ya brung" racing days days. If you got blown away some week, you came back with something faster next time. :heat: Anybody would build themselves a retro car & power it with a D or C-can. I'm betting this one will be an anglewinder.


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Bill Fernald

 

Exercise? I thought you said extra fries!  :crazy: 


#8 Bill from NH

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 06:21 AM

Hmmm, Bill, should I use an ugly F1 driver and paint it myself, or open up a drawer full of painted Noose interiors and pick one ? :umnik2:

 

Here's the answer to your dilema. Spray the body, including the windshield, with one color of paint. Cut  a round hole, about the size of a penny, wherever you want the interior to be.  Then you just have to paint the driver's helmet & stick it through the hole. See, simple yuh? :crazy:


Bill Fernald

 

Exercise? I thought you said extra fries!  :crazy: 


#9 Samiam

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 06:46 AM

 

That was "Run what ya brung" racing days days. If you got blown away some week, you came back with something faster next time. :heat: Anybody would build themselves a retro car & power it with a D or C-can. I'm betting this one will be an anglewinder.

I love hearing those stories of racers building/rebuilding chassis and winding armatures in their hotel rooms back in the day. 

 

If you need a spur gear I have those Cobras you liked so much :laugh2:


Sam Levitch
 
"If you have integrity, nothing else matters, and if you do not have integrity, nothing else matters."
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#10 Pablo

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 06:54 AM

Here are the specs and history of the "gear-stripping powerful" motor:

24/26 Havlicek arm, Mura can/endbell, BB's on both ends, fully blueprinted, airgap 15 thou, modern "C" magnets, shunts, insulators, and buss bars.

IMG_0037.JPG

I originally built it for my Batmobile.

post-91-0-54615200-1395284516.jpg

 

Here is what I posted after track test #1:

"This motor absolutely blows away anything I've ever built - too much power - I didn't think I would ever say that.

The Havlicek/Pablo/Mura motor has been cleaned, inspected, tested, labeled and bagged. 

She is going to take a long nap in the vintage motor box of horrors until I build a lead sled chassis for it. 

Also need to order a bottle of Koford Heavy"

 

The time for this motor has come. The Batmobile weighed 135 grams, wonder what weight I should shoot for on this one ?


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#11 Pablo

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 06:59 AM

I haven't looked at my gear box of horrors yet, Sam, but I guarantee you I won't be using one of those doggone Cobra spurs :laugh2:

The teeth can be cut off the hub and they make good jig axle gizmos :good:


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#12 Bill from NH

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 07:42 AM

I ran Cobra spur gears on my weekly race cars from 1970-75 because they ran truer than the Cox. So did most of the other  racers at Modelville Hobbies. We didn't experience any meshing problems with them. I'm wondering if today's pinions are using a different tooth profile than those of that era.


Bill Fernald

 

Exercise? I thought you said extra fries!  :crazy: 


#13 Pablo

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 02:57 PM

McLaren decals and a Jairus Watson painted driver

IMG_0444.JPG

 

Cobra lead wire, .032 Bat Pans, 1 1/4" wide drop arm, Jet flag, Parma brass clips, Koford flag spacers,

Prime braid, Classic weight, Koford big head body pins, Koford rear axle, VXB non-shielded ball bearings, JK D4 donuts.

Plus, 1972 Aguirre front wheels, Steve Okeefe rear wheels, and 41T 64P factory sleeved 3/32 Faas spur gear, all gifted by Rick Thigpen :heart:

IMG_0440.JPG

 

These 3 bad boys are going in the tumbler right now before they infect my other parts !! :D

IMG_0449.JPG


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#14 Pablo

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 03:49 PM

As long as I'm tumblin' stuff, might as well throw in some more brass laundry :D

IMG_0460.JPG

 


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#15 Pablo

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 04:06 PM

This time I got smart and soaked ALL my ball bearings in acetone, instead of one pair at a time ;)

IMG_0469.JPG


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#16 Bill from NH

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 05:18 PM

As long as I'm tumblin' stuff, might as well throw in some more brass laundry :D

 

Two of those droparms look to be Parma's, a Phaze III, a Cobra, & a REHCO.


Bill Fernald

 

Exercise? I thought you said extra fries!  :crazy: 


#17 SlotStox#53

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 05:32 PM

Certainly alot of dirty laundry you got there Pablo ! All ready for plenty of no rule cars :D

Maybe even a few recreations :good:

#18 Pablo

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Posted 24 March 2016 - 02:54 PM

Am I the only one who ensures my anglewinder motors are centered left/right to balance the weight ?

Before I can set up my jig, I need to know exactly where the motor will sit.

 

First I put the gears and jig motor in place exactly as they will end up with the "real" motor, and measure the angle.

In this case, looks like about 6.5 degrees

IMG_0483.JPG

 

Then, as a visual reference and a balance checker, I bend a piece of wire at that angle

IMG_0484.JPG

 

Photo doesn't show it but the centerline balance point more or less runs right through the middle of the (EB side) can hole

IMG_0487.JPG

 

Now with that hole on the centerline of the jig with the gears in place at 6.5 degrees, I know it's balanced and it's right where I want it.

Knowledge is power :aggressive: :dance3:


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#19 Pablo

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Posted 24 March 2016 - 03:35 PM

BB's out of the acetone bath, rinsed in lighter fluid, then sealed wet with WD-40. Except these 2 didn't get put away - they are soaking in Mobil 1

IMG_0497.JPG


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#20 SlotStox#53

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Posted 24 March 2016 - 04:46 PM

How long do you soak the BB's in acetone for Pablo?

#21 Pablo

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Posted 24 March 2016 - 05:22 PM

There is no science in it, Paul.

If you let them soak too long, the acetone evaporates and you'll never know where the factory grease ended up.

Not long enough, and the grease remains.

 

If it was possible to know exactly what grease was installed, that would be another story.

In this case, I didn't see a lot of dissolved grease. What I did see was different types and sizes of particulate matter.

 

I heard of an R/C guy in Japan who soaks his BB's in lighter fluid for 30 days. :crazy:

On any given day, a good driver with a dirty car and misaligned worn out oilites could out-run me.

 

Was that too much info, Paul ? :laugh2:


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#22 Zippity

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Posted 24 March 2016 - 06:09 PM

What is the purpose of soaking new BB in Acetone?

 

George-Cruickshank-with-his-13.5lb-brown

 

George Cruickshank with his 13.5lb brown from the Tekapo Canal.



#23 Bill from NH

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Posted 24 March 2016 - 06:23 PM

You can cut the cleaning time way down if you use an ultrasonic cleaner. The $10 denture cleaners at Walmart may work too. Fill the cleaner tank with water, stick your bearings & favorite cleaning solution in a clean small glass jar, stick the jar in the cleaner's tank, & turn the unit on. Unshielded bearings will clean quicker than shielded ones. 


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Bill Fernald

 

Exercise? I thought you said extra fries!  :crazy: 


#24 Pablo

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Posted 24 March 2016 - 06:28 PM

Zippity, as a precautionary measure to remove any protective greases installed at the factory.

How do I know this stuff ? Because I actually read Slotblog, instead of just clicking on "View New Content" :sarcastic_hand:

 

Faas spur hub needed some narrowing. In the process, I shined it up with 2,000 grit wet/dry sandpaper

IMG_0500.JPG

 

IMG_0509.JPG


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#25 Bill from NH

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Posted 24 March 2016 - 07:51 PM

Hey, I use [View New Content] & I know that stuff.  :sun_bespectacled:

 

How much has to come off the Fass hub? Enough to keep the setscrew location in place? Narrow up two gears so you'll have a spare, just in case. My Unimat is available. 


Bill Fernald

 

Exercise? I thought you said extra fries!  :crazy: 


#26 Pablo

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Posted 24 March 2016 - 08:52 PM

Thanks, Bill, for the "spare" Faas spur you are sending me :dance3: :laugh2:

Back at The Ranch, it appears this is all going to work fine.....

I know the motor needs to come to the left a hair, and it will, when I remove a little more material from the tube.

IMG_0521.JPG


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#27 Bill from NH

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Posted 24 March 2016 - 09:46 PM

Is it my imagination, or is that drop arm not 1 1/4" wide?


Bill Fernald

 

Exercise? I thought you said extra fries!  :crazy: 


#28 Pablo

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Posted 25 March 2016 - 06:41 AM

It is 1 1/4, is that a problem ? It leaves me .25" rail space, which is more than enough for twin .063 rails plus an .055 plumber rail.....


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#29 tonyp

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Posted 25 March 2016 - 06:48 AM

1 1/4 drop arms became the standard. Build on Sir Pablo.

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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ip


#30 Bill from NH

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Posted 25 March 2016 - 09:29 AM

It is 1 1/4, is that a problem ? 

 

Not a problem. I was wondering why you would need the Fass hub to be shortened. I ran Fass gears over ten ten years & never had a hub problem. And I was running 3" & 3 1/16" wheel to wheel widths too. It could be caused by the combination of the Okeefe wheel widths & the length of the rear axle tube.


Bill Fernald

 

Exercise? I thought you said extra fries!  :crazy: 


#31 Pablo

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Posted 25 March 2016 - 10:07 AM

Overall width of the wheels is .810.

Tube length isn't an issue because I can cut them however I want.

There is no "hub problem", and I could have made it work by increasing the motor angle, but I chose not to.

I only removed about 7 thou.

 

My insistence in centering the balance point of the motor is what makes it tricky.


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#32 Pablo

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Posted 25 March 2016 - 02:07 PM

Final checks with the "real" motor before going nuts with rails n whatnot.

The pinion needed to be cut, then polished

IMG_0531.JPG

 


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#33 Bill from NH

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Posted 25 March 2016 - 02:45 PM

I never had a problem mounting a C-can motor in an inch & a quarter wide motor box. Different strokes for different folks. :)


Bill Fernald

 

Exercise? I thought you said extra fries!  :crazy: 


#34 Pablo

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Posted 25 March 2016 - 03:44 PM

Tube is finished

IMG_0541.JPG

 


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#35 Pablo

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Posted 26 March 2016 - 04:44 PM

Motor brace/tube strengthener is permanent - jig motor is just tacked in.

Sharpie dot on right side marks top of tube.

Time to get those precious gears out of there for a bath !!

IMG_0547.JPG

 

Wire tinning party complete - .063's and .055's

IMG_0552.JPG


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#36 Pablo

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Posted 27 March 2016 - 07:38 PM

Wasn't happy with the solid .050 drop arm, so I switched to this -

IMG_0562.JPG

 

An .032 and a .040, sandwiched together :D

Either one of them, alone, would need the tongue re-tweaked after each and every deslot at the speeds this heavy car will reach.

The rectangular void will make soldering the inner main rails much easier (than the solid .050 arm was).

If I want to fill that void, some Lucky Bob's lead and Slick 7 bulletproofing will do the trick, allowing it to sit at ground zero :wink2:


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#37 SlotStox#53

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Posted 27 March 2016 - 08:33 PM

Another job for Mr mini torch :D

Definitely one solid yet open drop arm!

#38 Pablo

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Posted 27 March 2016 - 08:57 PM

When the minitorch and copious amounts of Stay-Clean won't get the solder flowing fast enough, you know it's time for some re-thinking :dash2: :crazy:


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#39 Pablo

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Posted 28 March 2016 - 12:43 PM

A rear end only a mother could love

IMG_0567.JPG

 

Drop arm sandwich that doesn't drop

IMG_0570.JPG


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#40 SlotStox#53

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Posted 28 March 2016 - 04:00 PM

Nice :good: didn't see a fixed drop arm coming.

#41 Pablo

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Posted 28 March 2016 - 04:24 PM

:prankster2:  Hit you by surprise ? :laugh2:

Stand by, more to follow


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#42 dc-65x

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Posted 28 March 2016 - 05:10 PM

BAM! That fixed drop arm reminds me of PdL's Diamond chassis:

 

PDL diamond axles 1.jpg


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Rick Thigpen
Check out Steve Okeefe's great web site at its new home here at Slotblog:
The Independent Scratchbuilder
There's much more to come...


#43 Pablo

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Posted 28 March 2016 - 05:49 PM

I guess I've been figured out :)

This isn't a Philippe de Lespinay Diamond clone, but it will surely look very similar.

What's not to like ? No power is wasted via hinged drop arm, front wheels don't upset the car, etc.

Rick, I've been parked on your "Neat Things Pro Diamond Car" thread for a week.

Good thing there are no "meter maids" on Slotblog - I can't afford the tickets :laugh2:


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#44 dc-65x

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Posted 28 March 2016 - 06:36 PM

Sorry if I outed you Pablo.  :o  When  I saw you center section it just screamed out to me. :D  This car should really scoot.  :dance3: Onward!


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#45 SlotStox#53

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Posted 28 March 2016 - 06:57 PM

Spent many a time looking at that thread of Rick's :good: :D

With a view to one day attempting a car like the Diamond :heart:

Out of curiosity Rick, what wire did you use for the diamond front arms/axles?

#46 dc-65x

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Posted 28 March 2016 - 07:23 PM

I used 1/16" K&S piano wire Paul. One could also make an "L" arm style front axle that evolved after PdL's innovative "Diamond" axles. We'll have to wait and see what Pablo has in store for us. :good:


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#47 Pablo

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Posted 29 March 2016 - 04:18 PM

PdL's front wheel design is perfect, and dc-65x shows how to do it perfectly.

I cut 3/32 brass tube sleeves for the wheels, then dropped a little Loctite 271 down the set screw holes

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#48 Pablo

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Posted 30 March 2016 - 09:47 AM

Philippe's reported toe-in and camber was 2 and 5 degrees respectively

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#49 Pablo

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Posted 30 March 2016 - 03:37 PM

The way I wrapped my axle and the way I'll do my down stops is a little different than the "Diamond",

but the end result will be about the same. Maybe not as pretty, but it's intended to be a workhorse :D :aggressive:

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#50 SlotStox#53

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Posted 30 March 2016 - 04:26 PM

Bullet proof? More like nuke proof :D

That is some serious wire wrapping.





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