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Thanks for eliminating the Puppy Dog!


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#26 Les Boyd

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Posted 25 March 2016 - 11:15 AM

Does not seem to make much sense to have a Can-Am Plus class.
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#27 old & gray

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Posted 25 March 2016 - 11:19 AM

First my opinion on this motor change rule – I don’t like it because it removes two more things from my control: brush material and spring tension.
 
Secondly the decision-making method in IRRA® is not a “democracy” or “dictatorship”. IRRA® is a business with over half the board having successfully run businesses in the slot car industry. The business plan for IRRA® is not a “for profit” plan, and not every business is planned to make a profit.

 

The plan of having the racers make the rules leads to madness. Racers have a limited interest in the continuation and growth of a racing organization, and a greater interest in rules which favor their racing program.

 

IRRA® appears to have a business plan to maintain a stable set of rules, and increase the participation in races. Judging against other current racing programs I would say they have a successful business.
 
I disagree with their decision but I support their method of operation and their decision.


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#28 Cheater

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Posted 25 March 2016 - 11:32 AM

Bob,

Decent analysis but a little off-base. IRRA® is probably best described as a pro bono advocacy organization promoting a particular form of slot racing, primarily by maintaining a very stable rule set. It has no income stream of any kind and it is entirely self-funded by the BoD. IRRA® doesn't receive a penny from the Premier Events and in fact, most of the BoD donate sponsorship bucks to many of the Premier Events along with their time and travel expenses when they attend to ssist with the event.

As for those who have mentioned their "investments" in PD motors, perhaps not everyone is aware that one particular BoD member has attended almost every IRRA® Premier Event since the beginning at his own expense.


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#29 Butters37

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Posted 25 March 2016 - 11:42 AM

I don't think you are going to get sympathy on that one.

It could be thought as the BoD members are more important than the racers...


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#30 S.O. Watt

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Posted 25 March 2016 - 11:44 AM

Puppy Dogs work very well on flat tracks, but IRRA®, and Retro East, seldom runs on them AFAIK.


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#31 MSwiss

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Posted 25 March 2016 - 11:57 AM

Awful decision.
You don't want to look like a dictatorship... yet today that's what we have.
The racers are the only losers... and you just gave a lot of ammunition to some.

  

Sorry not a dictatorship... an axis of evil LOL. But serioudly. To do this did nothing. It now has taken the focus away from a great R4 and shifted it to bickering.
What was the point? A motor that few use... why even bother with this? Seems like nothing more than a way to get at the evil one in any way possible. Egos may have played a bigger part in this than racing it seems.

  

I don't think you are going to get sympathy on that one.
It could be thought as the BoD members are more important than the racers...

 

Ralph Thorne said it best on FB on Dennis Krivacek's page:
 

Seriously though, what's with the big uproar, who didn't know this would happen?

It's the same as any rule change, show up and race, or dont.

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#32 raisin27

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Posted 25 March 2016 - 12:01 PM

Agree or not, I think I see the reason for the change in Can-Am and F1, but what is the reason for eliminating the PS-FK from Can-Am Plus?


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#33 JimF

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Posted 25 March 2016 - 12:03 PM

One of the incentives behind this new class was the need to find a proper class for the new, affordable, and fast Pro Slot 4002 FK motor. In recognition of the support Pro Slot has given the IRRA® since its inception that will be the ONLY motor allowed in the Can-Am Plus class.

 
The above statement is contained in the original post on 7/11/14 by IRRA® announcing the CA+ class. At the time, it seemed a little contrived to me to basically create a class to support one manufacturer. Now, admittedly, that may not be the only motivation but it was clearly stated that it was one of them.
 
Now, it seems that the support of Pro Slot has been rethought by IRRA®. Not sure why, but there it is. I'm sure Pro Slot will be just fine but I hope that this does not give them pause on their mini motor program. Of course the 4002 FK has support in other organizations but given the past statement as quoted above, this does seem a bit odd.


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#34 Frankie Schaffier

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Posted 25 March 2016 - 12:04 PM

What's next... Outlawing Outisight bodies?
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#35 Rick Moore

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Posted 25 March 2016 - 12:08 PM

Pointless.



#36 Noose

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Posted 25 March 2016 - 12:11 PM

I favored the PS-FK for Can-Am Plus and in fact created the class.

The problem is that there are too many problems with the motor causing racers to have to buy new springs, brushes, and tools to even get them set up right and there are far more of them blowing up than HRs.

As far as flat track racing with HRs please recall the Flat Track Nats where HRs were used quite successfully geared 7/26.


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#37 Noose

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Posted 25 March 2016 - 12:13 PM

Also, Pro Slot sells far more FKs for Hardbody and flexi racing than they ever would for Can-Am Plus.


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#38 NJ Racer

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Posted 25 March 2016 - 12:33 PM

Curious why retain the TSR and F7 as optional motors?
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#39 Cap Henry

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Posted 25 March 2016 - 12:41 PM

Because simplification in any endeavor almost always brings benefits.

Can you point to any time in slot racing history where adding complexity, i.e. more options, has increased participation or generated closer racing?


Please quit with this ridiculous thought, one motor that was still used was eliminated, while two others, the Falcon 7 and TSR, that aren't used at all are still allowed. If the only goal was to simply things, why not just go RH only?
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#40 Noose

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Posted 25 March 2016 - 12:42 PM

Curious why retain the TSR & F7 as optional motors? 


Think international, Ray. Used a lot overseas


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#41 Noose

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Posted 25 March 2016 - 12:43 PM

Same comment to you, Cap.

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#42 Noose

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Posted 25 March 2016 - 12:44 PM

What's next... Outlawing Outisight bodies?


Where have you been able to buy yours? Let all know so they can get them.

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#43 Les Boyd

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Posted 25 March 2016 - 12:48 PM

I agree, Noose, if you have to make so many changes to the motor to get it competitive, reliable or what ever, it loses its appeal. And as I have said when you allow a motor to be altered from the factory set-up... where do you stop, and then there goes the cost (not to mention other problems). If the motor can be altered then it should not be in the same class as the motors that are truly factory sealed, and made by the factory almost tamperproof.

 

I understood when the BoD allowed the PS-FK motor to be use in the Can-Am Plus class, but that just let some go off the deep end, just as they had in the past. I was afraid that there was going to be a swing to faster and faster motors, and to be honest the brass and wire chassis that Retro is all about would have trouble standing up to the higher speeds. And there are lots of other slot car classes better suited to that kind of speed. 



#44 NJ Racer

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Posted 25 March 2016 - 01:11 PM

Think international, Ray. Used a lot overseas.


Not in Japan though.
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#45 Noose

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Posted 25 March 2016 - 01:29 PM

Retro Tokyo is just fine.

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#46 Mr. GoFast

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Posted 25 March 2016 - 01:38 PM

Because simplification in any endeavor almost always brings benefits.Can you point to any time in slot racing history where adding complexity, i.e. more options, has increased participation or generated closer racing?


I guess we will see the answer to that question at the Retro Championship race In April!!!
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#47 Butters37

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Posted 25 March 2016 - 01:39 PM

Top events will go hand-out with this decision. And January 1, 2017 all, IRRA® races will follow this? Correct?

That is where it hurts the most: the local series races. The smaller tracks or ones that require more breaks. Big races will still be big. It's not those that need to be concerned. But the local level and the regional series are the ones that should be cared about. That is the real issue for me


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#48 Cheater

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Posted 25 March 2016 - 01:40 PM

So up to this point in time, Tracy, you can't point to a race or a series where adding complexity has generated closer racing or increased participation?

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#49 Noose

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Posted 25 March 2016 - 01:45 PM

With the exception of GTC-Pro at the R4, all GTC-Pro at the other Premier Events have all been hand-outs. There have never been hand-outs in Can-Am, F1, Stock Car, or Can-Am Plus.

This R4 was the last year where you could run PDs in GTC-Pro and that was stated.

There was never an announcement that other classes were going to hand-outs at Premier Races.


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#50 Butters37

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Posted 25 March 2016 - 01:56 PM

But this would lead to that very easily. Seems to be a first step. If so chosen to do.


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