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Thanks for eliminating the Puppy Dog!


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#126 The Number of

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Posted 26 March 2016 - 10:15 AM

Good God, let's hope he isn't pregnant.
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#127 Pappy

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Posted 26 March 2016 - 10:24 AM

The perception of cheating and parking lot motors is still there with the Puppy Dog and always will be. Why not eliminate that perception?


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Jim "Butch" Dunaway
 
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#128 Cap Henry

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Posted 26 March 2016 - 10:51 AM

Sorry, but you'll never eliminate the perception of cheating. Some people simply can't deal with the fact they got beat fairly, so have to make excuses. People are still going to accuse others of cheating in private, it surprises me that as long as everyone involved has been racing they don't get that.

I still feel the racers weren't the first priority in this.
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#129 Pappy

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Posted 26 March 2016 - 10:59 AM

Cap,

 

Other than the Puppy Dog motor what else has the perception of cheating attached to it in Retro racing?


Jim "Butch" Dunaway
 
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#130 Terry

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Posted 26 March 2016 - 11:02 AM

Butch, that's what the protest procedure is for. 
 
Anyone, at any time, from anywhere, can file a protest. They just have to have a set of balls to do it.  :)
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#131 Tom Thumb Hobbies

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Posted 26 March 2016 - 11:03 AM

Two questions, Cap.

What do you think the first priority was?

And in your 1:1 racing career, have parts or components ever been outlawed after several years (or less) of use?


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#132 Cap Henry

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Posted 26 March 2016 - 11:17 AM

There's guys that believe others are messing with Retro Hawks and other FK type motors. Remember can squeezing? Don't forget, there is a protest procedure for FK motors because there was perception of quality control issues and motors coming with less wire.

The number one best way to remove the perception, is to do a tech of the top 3-5 or whatever. As I said before, send them off to a separate source, if they pass they get the motor back after its refurbed, in the case of the PD.

My view on this isn't, you outlawed the PD, I quit because I can't race a RH, I have won just as many premier races with a RH as I have a PD. My complete point has been, a viable motor option has been removed and the number one priority with removing it wasn't the racers.
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#133 Cap Henry

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Posted 26 March 2016 - 11:24 AM

In the 10 years I've sprint car raced, the only changes have been tires, because a different manufacturer bought the contract, and that's happened one time.

Mike S summed it up, it was time to make the divorce final and start with a clean slate. That wasn't for the racers best interest, but to end someone else's involvement.

I've said my part, its 1:1 race day.
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#134 Pappy

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Posted 26 March 2016 - 11:27 AM

Butch, that's what the protest procedure is for. 
 
Anyone, at any time, from anywhere, can file a protest. They just have to have a set of balls to do it.  :)


It's a lot easier to say "screw it" and go on to some other form of slot car racing where you know it's a level playing field and way more fun. 
 
Terry, I've been in and out of this hobby since the early '60s. I've seen things in Retro racing that there is no way anyone is going to blow smoke up my a$$ and tell me there isn't crap going on with the Puppy Dog. I'll leave it at that.
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Jim "Butch" Dunaway
 
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#135 Pappy

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Posted 26 March 2016 - 11:29 AM

There's guys that believe others are messing with Retro Hawks and other FK type motors. Remember can squeezing? Don't forget, there is a protest procedure for FK motors because there was perception of quality control issues and motors coming with less wire.


Not the same as being able to open up the can, rebuild, and blueprint the whole motor.
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#136 jimht

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Posted 26 March 2016 - 11:40 AM

I agree with simplification, which equals less time and money spent on motors and more time spent focusing on chassis and the tuning of the car.
As someone who has to stock this stuff for racers, I also see no reason for expensive duplication in an area that quite simply unnecessarily increases costs to all involved.
 
Those "Raceway Rats" favoring multiple motor choices have more time/money on their hands than those who would rather simplify. This change levels the playing field in one (less relevant) area without taking all the fun out of it.
 
Time for the nag I first posted many years ago:
 
It's not about racing, it's not about winning, it's not about who's got the deepest pockets, it's just about having a good time in your spare time.
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#137 Rick

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Posted 26 March 2016 - 11:52 AM

Sorry for your pain, Bill, but it was time to make the divorce final and start with a clean slate.


Divorce from who or what? This certainly speaks volumes...
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#138 MSwiss

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Posted 26 March 2016 - 12:00 PM

The mistake the IRRA® made letting racers get into the insides of their motors.


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Mike Swiss
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#139 Tom Thumb Hobbies

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Posted 26 March 2016 - 12:07 PM

Not an answer, Cap. What do you think was the number one priority? Screw Ron? Is he a secret stockholder in Pro Slot? Kill his refurb business? How many do racers send in any more? And didn't he almost kill that already by outlawing PDs in his org? Was it for personal gain? I have no stock in JK. Pretty sure no one in the BoD does either. And from a purely profit point of view I make more margin on the PDs.

 

At least half of the stigma attached to the PDs is not making illegal mods but the cherrypicking of primo parts. Tip matched magnets, perfect cans, those slightly better arms, etc. Nothing illegal but something no one else has access to except a refurber. And nothing that would be caught in any tech inspection. Does that make for a level playing field with motors? Whether it ever happened or not doesn't matter. Many are sure it did, so to them, it's fact. And it can't be proven either way.

 

I think the IRRA has to take the hit for allowing refurbs to go on for too long. But the motor choices were poor and Pro Slot stepped up with their PD. Seemed like a good idea at the time. But a competitive and reliable FK has changed that. I don't think anyone will argue that if we had something similar to the HR from the beginning a lot of the problems would never have happened.


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#140 kvanpelt

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Posted 26 March 2016 - 12:07 PM

Whatever happened to all those meticulously blueprinted Puppy Dogs with all the best armatures and parts then sent to the refurber for a new seal? They would still pass a teardown, wouldn't they?

 

Do you suppose they are laying around collecting dust or just doing some serious basement racing?  :laugh2:

 

Let's not forget that often used "it's all in the chassis and car set-up"! :dash2:  Sure is easy setting up a car laying on 125 gram of lead when you have the best motors. Won't show up on the straight, but it will sure haul a$$ on the back half!

 

Good call, BoD, now please bring on the all hand-out motor racing! And if you really want to get serious about leveling the playing field and cutting the racers cost, add on hand-out tires! :good:


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#141 usadar

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Posted 26 March 2016 - 12:20 PM

I can't believe it, another Track that races Retros on 14.2 volts

 

Tracy,

 

As long as the track power is clean like at your track, the voltage doesn't matter, 13.2 or 14.2v.

 

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#142 MSwiss

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Posted 26 March 2016 - 12:28 PM

Whatever happened to all those meticulously blueprinted Puppy Dogs with all the best armatures and parts then sent to the refurber for a new seal? They would still pass a teardown, wouldn't they?

 

Do you suppose they are laying around collecting dust or just doing some serious basement racing?  

 

Let's not forget that often used "it's all in the chassis and car set-up"!  Sure is easy setting up a car laying on 125 gram of lead when you have the best motors. Won't show up on the straight, but it will sure haul a$$ on the back half!

 

Good call, BoD, now please bring on the all hand-out motor racing! And if you really want to get serious about leveling the playing field and cutting the racers cost, add on hand-out tires

 

The mistake the IRRA® made letting racers get into the insides of their motors.

 

Mike S summed it up, it was time to make the divorce final and start with a clean slate. That wasn't for the racers best interest, but to end someone else's involvement.

 

Cap,

 

If you missed it, read my above post.

 

We needed a divorce from the situation, not a particular person. We were as complicit in this as anyone.

 

Like McM said "I think the IRRA has to take the hit for allowing refurbs to go on for too long."

 

We're taking the hit.


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#143 Rusty Pinion

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Posted 26 March 2016 - 12:33 PM

I guess the next thing is to ban the best drivers... because we know it ain't the motors... :unknw: and to some the chassis set-up has nothing to do with it...  :rolleyes: ... so it has to be the drivers... right...??? BAN THEM!!! LMAO...


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#144 Arne Saknussem

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Posted 26 March 2016 - 12:38 PM

:hi:   :clapping:     :victory:   

 

Whatever happened to all those meticulously blueprinted Puppy Dogs with all the best armatures and parts then sent to the refurber for a new seal? They would still pass a teardown, wouldn't they?

 

Do you suppose they are laying around collecting dust or just doing some serious basement racing? 

 

Let's not forget that often used "it's all in the chassis and car set-up"!  Sure is easy setting up a car laying on 125 gram of lead when you have the best motors. Won't show up on the straight, but it will sure haul a$$ on the back half!

 

Good call, BoD, now please bring on the all hand-out motor racing! And if you really want to get serious about leveling the playing field and cutting the racers cost, add on hand-out tires


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#145 Arne Saknussem

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Posted 26 March 2016 - 12:41 PM

We all know where the "blame" rests.

 

Too bad we don't all know the same thing.


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#146 JHMerriman

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Posted 26 March 2016 - 12:53 PM

There have been more caught cheating with FKs than PDs... just saying. The perception of PD cheating is overshadowed by actual cheating with FKs.

How many RHs would it take to run the Columbus Six-Hour enduro? I know one PD can do it, how do you get more reliable than that?


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#147 MSwiss

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Posted 26 March 2016 - 01:02 PM

You ever feel you raced against a shady PD motor (edit) at any Retro race, regardless of org?

 

After the IRRA closed up loopholes where refurbers couldn't run their own motors, and where racers could no longer tinker with the seals off, no.

 

Whatever happened to all those meticulously blueprinted Puppy Dogs with all the best armatures and parts then sent to the refurber for a new seal? They would still pass a teardown, wouldn't they?

 

Do you suppose they are laying around collecting dust or just doing some serious basement racing?  :laugh2:

 

 The perception of PD cheating is overshadowed by actual cheating with FKs.

 

No, it's not. Read the above.

 

Your guy reduced the PD to red-haired stepchild status, well over a year before we dumped it, and now you're worked up over us doing it, when you don't even participate in our races?

 

PS: Your "slimeball comment" was rude and uncalled for.


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#148 Pappy

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Posted 26 March 2016 - 01:09 PM

How many RHs would it take to run the Columbus Six-Hour enduro? I know one PD can do it, how do you get more reliable than that?

 

Two RHs are still cheaper than one PD. Plus it might be interesting to see how people gear them for the long haul so they don't get so hot.


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#149 JHMerriman

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Posted 26 March 2016 - 01:17 PM

Show me where one PD was shown to be illegal. You should know when an FK was tampered with, it was your race! Just stating the facts, Mike.

I do participate in IRRA races every now and then. Outlaw series runs Can-Am with RH only. I gave Ralph a hard time about the motor choice, just ask him.

Greg said talks were happening about changing the motor list for a long time, and yet sponsorship money was still accepted from Pro Slot. Did yall even let him know his products were no longer going to be legal before you ousted them?

I would give the benefit of the doubt, but the timing makes it look very very odd.

The constant assumption that if you don't use our rules you shouldn't comment on the rules is a great way to dwindle participation.


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#150 Rick

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Posted 26 March 2016 - 01:17 PM

I think the hand-out motor idea for IRRA Premier Events is a good one! I would support that 110%...


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