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The Mysterion build


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#1 Detroit Dave

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 12:51 PM

I have always loved the wild and crazy creations of Ed "Big Daddy" Roth and can't help but want to create some of these to race around the track with.  Previously I have done both the Beatnic Bandit and the Road Agent and now I'm tackling the Mysterion.  

 

The chassis I have chosen is from Checkered Flag because the lightening holes mimic somewhat the Mysterion's chassis.chassis.jpg

 

 

Then a quick mockup to see how it might look and what changes might be required to either the model or the chassis.mysterionmockup1.jpg


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Dave Roberts




#2 Detroit Dave

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 01:02 PM

The mockup shows that the chassis appears too far back in the body and the front part of the chassis is too wide for the front portion of the body.  So I built up the model chassis to get a better sense of the differences between the two and then began to modify the chassis to be a better fit.  I added new axel bearing holes rearward of the originals and Z'd the frame up front to better represent the actual car front end.   chassismod.jpg


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#3 Slot Car Mods Magazine

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 08:24 PM

The mockup shows that the chassis appears too far back in the body and the front part of the chassis is too wide for the front portion of the body.  So I built up the model chassis to get a better sense of the differences between the two and then began to modify the chassis to be a better fit.  I added new axel bearing holes rearward of the originals and Z'd the frame up front to better represent the actual car front end.   attachicon.gifchassismod.jpg

 

That is just too kOoL Detroit Dave, I'm a huge Ed "Big Daddy" Roth fan myself, and was fortunate enough to meet the man himself...   :good:

 

I'll be keeping an eye on this one...

 

All the best...

 

Ron...


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#4 Pete L.

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Posted 02 April 2016 - 03:41 PM

Dave,

 

 What a really cool concept, I always thought these customs were fantastic, and to build them as slot cars is awesome !!!! :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:


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#5 dc-65x

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Posted 02 April 2016 - 08:22 PM

Looking good. Thanks for sharing it with us.


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#6 idare2bdul

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Posted 02 April 2016 - 09:19 PM

Great combination of a vintage chassis combined with creativity.


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#7 Detroit Dave

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 09:34 AM

Topview.jpg Sideview.jpg

Thanks for all of the great words of encouragement.  I had some good opportunity over the weekend to move the project along and have started to mate the body to the chassis.  My plan is to use the lateral rods that hold the two frame sides together to hold the body firmly to the chassis.  So I began by putting styrene tubes around the threaded rods.  Then I added the necessary clearance between the motor/chassis and the interior tray for the body.  Once I had the clearance I need I used styrene sheet stock of various thicknesses to add structure to bridge between the tubes and the body.   Lots of trial and error until I have a solid structure from one end of the body to other picking up each of the three styrene tubes.  


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Dave Roberts

#8 NSwanberg

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 11:38 PM

As I remember mysterion was a difficult model to build. Still it was one of my faves. As I understand it the actual car's frame broke owing to the weight of the vehicle and was soon parted out and destroyed. mysterion did make an appearance in a movie.

 

Good luck on the project!

 

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#9 Detroit Dave

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Posted 07 April 2016 - 09:21 AM

I would certainly agree with the difficulty of the build.  I built the frame as a way to line up my chassis and I was glad I wasn't trying to build it with integrity because the number of fragile chrome components which need to come together just right had a way of getting glue to end up where I didn't want it!  Luckily the body build is much more straight forward from what I can see so far.  Here is the latest view of the progress.

 rough.jpg

The body and mounting locations have been roughed in with styrene and the chassis layout has been put together to see what issues arise.  In all of my builds I find I tend to lack insight into some of the challenges I will face down the road as I forge ahead.  

 


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Dave Roberts

#10 Detroit Dave

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Posted 07 April 2016 - 09:37 AM

So here is the latest challenge.  The re-positioning of the rear axle has stretched the distance beyond any of my gear choices.  The largest pinion and spur combination I have (20T and 50T) doesn't come close.  

oh no.jpg

The possible resolutions are to 1. use a friction drive. ( I drilled out a silicon HO wheel and tried this out and although it will work it is likely to be temperamental and highly subject to fine tuning and will require some body mods I don't want to do.)

frictiondrive.jpg

Or to use a larger spur gear in the place of the pinion which will result in a non-optimal gear ration of close to 1.5:1.

pinionspur.jpg

Still doing some more homework on possible larger spur gear from a RC car.  

 

 

 


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#11 Dave Crevie

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Posted 07 April 2016 - 03:50 PM

You can get larger spur gears in brass. Look for Kemtron or K&B at a swap meet or on the web. You can also

get larger pinions. 

 

Back when I was a kid I built a Beatnik Bandit on a Kemtron frame similar to what you are using. I used the

smaller size Pitman padlock motor. The body was not legal for competition, so I made a few runs during open

practice. On the first run, most of the small detail parts came off in the chute. The second run removed the

motor. Soon all that was left was the main body section. So I put an Ala Kart body on the chassis, which was

legal. I still have most of it.  



#12 Lone Wolf

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Posted 07 April 2016 - 04:38 PM

Dave, good stuff. I love any model/slot conversion.

 

Are you using those rear wheels? If so, I would use a Cox/similar pinion gear without the set screw boss. You can file out the slots in the chassis to move the motor back. This will allow you to sneak the pinion past the wheel for a good mesh. You most likely will have to shorten the motor shaft at the pinion side as well. The cross member behind the motor will have to be relocated slightly to the rear or front of the motor, whatever seems more sturdy.

 

You can also add a length of 1/8" I.D. brass tube that fits snugly between the oilites to prevent the chassis from being distorted when the free play is set. It could even be soldered to the bushings for strength.

 

Whenever you get too big on the spur you have the issue of possible track contact. Track owners kind of frown on such things :)


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#13 Detroit Dave

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Posted 08 April 2016 - 08:34 AM

Thanks Joe and Dave for the great input.  

 

The picture at the top of my last post was taken before I started digging through my parts bin for alternatives.  The spur gear shown is a COX 48T.  The largest I could find in my box or on the web was a 50T 48P brass gear with some lightening holes.  It was only slightly larger than the Cox because I believe the outside diameter is limited as Joe points out by the overall rear wheel tire combination which is typically 1.25" or less.  Luckily for me I  chose the Dynamic rears which come in at just about 1.375"  which leaves me an opportunity to go a bit further before I create a car that chatters it's way down the track and get's me thrown out of my favorite slot car track for life!   So I am planning a trip to the RC store over the weekend.  If someone is aware of 48P spur gear somewhere between 1.25 and 1.3"  I would love to get my hands on one.  It is often hard to get parts at most hobby stores unless you have a a particular brand and product model number.  

 

Unfortunately I have already limited my options somewhat significantly by my body build.  The pocket for the motor and the mounting for the body are firmly attached to the body and so I want to eliminate all other resolutions ahead of tearing it all out and starting over.

I'll try to take a picture this weekend showing the situation to make it more understandable.

 

 

I love the idea of adding a brass tube over the rear axle soldered to the bushings to keep all this lined up properly.  The chassis is not inherently rigid and this will help a ton.  

 

Joe, I would love to see the Ala Kart!  Here is a couple pictures of my Bandit build.  Probably one of favorite cars from the sixties.

 

The finished car

Bandit1.jpg

 

During the build showing the chassis

bandit2.jpg

 

Thanks again. 

 

 

 


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Dave Roberts

#14 Lone Wolf

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Posted 08 April 2016 - 12:11 PM

Dave, that was the other Dave with the Kart.

 

Anyway, looked through my spurs for you, nothing bigger than 48T. I've shown this Dynamic set up. To modify your set up in a similar way may be you only other option if you want to leave the motor where it is. Should be able to fit an idler gear in there on your chassis.  

 

DSC08625.JPG


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#15 Dave Crevie

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Posted 08 April 2016 - 03:58 PM

I would have to dig through my stuff to see if I have any 48 pitch spurs bigger than 50T. I have 64 pitch

up to 66, I would have to measure one to see how big it is for O.D.

 

The Ala Kart will probably get restored, most likely after Mike Swiss gets his drag strip running. Right now 

I am concentrating on getting the road coarse cars done. 



#16 Detroit Dave

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Posted 11 April 2016 - 09:37 AM

Thanks for looking through the gears gents.  I went to the local hobby shop and they helped me to find a suitable RC gear with 60T and 48p.  I also ordered a slightly larger 66T gear but it may be just a little too large for the rear wheel.  The 60T reaches but only just.  I had to modify the RC gear with a 1/8 ID brass tube to take out the slop on the axel and epoxied in a 5-40 nut in the hex shaped pocket so it can be firmly connected to the threaded axle.  

rcgear.jpg

 

Everything was put on the chassis jig to make sure it was square.

jig.jpg

 

And the final bits were added to clean up the body mods.  So we are now ready to move to the next step of paint!

ready.jpg


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#17 Jairus

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Posted 11 April 2016 - 10:27 AM

Looks really good Dave!
Hardest, but most fun part is paint and detailing.  Take your time and let the paint dry.
 


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#18 Detroit Dave

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Posted 11 April 2016 - 12:12 PM

Thanks for the great words of wisdom Jairus.  It is sometimes hard to slow down at this point.  I decided on enamel because the vintage Roth Mysterion yellow comes as enamel.  I purchased a bottle of it off of eBay this past week.  Hope it can be utilized.

Here is the plan:

 

Light sanding of the model surfaces to remove small imperfections and stray glue done last night.

Mild detergent wash this morning to remove mold releases and finger grime.

 

Tuesday-Wednesday (when the weather clears up) a light coating of Duplicolor black sandable primer to seal and provide a contrast for final fairing with 1200 grid.  

 

Next week re-apply a fine coat of primer to coat all areas exposed through the final fairing.

 

Let dry - How long before Model Master Chrome Silver 1790 spray can base coat is applied?

 

Let Dry - Airbrush light coat of Roth Candy yellow over the silver until desired color is achieved.

 

Any thoughts on what to change in my plan or things to watch out for?


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#19 Jairus

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Posted 11 April 2016 - 01:31 PM

Chrome spray applied light can be touched in a few hours. But it's soft and will leave fingerprints.  24+ is better.
Frankly, I would give all enamel a few days to fully cure.
First day in a warm dry non dust environment.
After that it can be moved outside in the sun for the rest of the curing period.


A lot of guys use food dryers to fully cure enamel.
Then they sand with polishing kits... if need be.
Some colors, including the wonderful Model Master clear Lacquer do not require any polishing.
Tamiya TS-13 is the same... but a bit hotter and you need to build up the coats starting with 3 dry coats about 60 minutes apart followed by 3 progressively heavier coats.
Then allow a day or two for curing before polishing if needed.

Painting hard bodies are a lesson in patience so I separate everything into assemblies so I can be working on one thing while another is drying.
But that's me.


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#20 Detroit Dave

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Posted 11 April 2016 - 02:54 PM

I'll have to get my but in gear on some additional builds to get the assembly line going!  


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#21 Lone Wolf

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Posted 11 April 2016 - 04:01 PM

These pics are not great but I almost never use enamel unless absolutely necessary. Except for the Monogram slots these are all awaiting final assembly or foiling etc. I use anything I have laying around, Plasti-Kote, Tamiya, Dupli-Color, etc. The '55 is enamel pearl topcoat. Everything here shot right out of the rattle can.

 

DSC08647.JPG

 

DSC08648.JPG

 

DSC08649.JPG


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#22 Detroit Dave

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Posted 12 April 2016 - 07:17 AM

These look great,  I hope I get similar results!  I also typically use Tamiya or Testor One Coat lacquers as my paint of choice.  But would like to start clearing some of the enamels out of my paint cabinet as well.  


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#23 Detroit Dave

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 07:44 AM

Taking the chassis to the track today to work out the bugs and see how the gearing ratio performs.  The body is ready for primer/sealer now and I'm starting to determine my strategies for the extensive amounts of chrome bits on the twin motors.  I typically like to add internal wires or pins to add strength to the components unless I want to leave a little of the car on the track every time I run them.  

primed.jpg sideview.jpg


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#24 Slot Car Mods Magazine

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 08:07 AM

Way too kOoL...


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#25 Dave Crevie

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 05:08 PM

Right. You will have fun with this one.







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