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Hybrid rail Can-Am... first tests


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#1 JimF

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 12:35 PM

Here is a hybrid rail (meaning a mix of brass and steel) Can Am. This was done after the tests of the Shark F-1 got me interested in unsoldered rails and mixes of brass and steel in smaller than the traditional .062. This is intended to be used mostly on flatter speedways or flat tracks. As a result, not much effort was made in keeping the weight down.

 

  • Started with an R-Geo angled face 3/4" bracket & 3/4" coined nosepiece both in .050.
  • Based on a suggestion from Rick, I used an axle tube in this one which I haven't done in a while.
  • All rails and the wire portion of the pans are .047.
  • Rails are 8/side. Inside out goes---2 steel unsoldered-4 brass unsoldered-2 steel soldered.
  • The cluster of brass rails in the middle of the array is not soldered to either pair of steel rails.
  • Care was taken to minimize the flat spot in the flex caused by the hanger tubes for the center weight.
  • Other nose brass is .032, outriggers are .050, pan weights are .062, center weight is .016.
  • Flex on this is a little softer than 5X .047 soldered and a bit stiffer than 7X .039 soldered.
  • This goes about 116.2 all up as shown in the bottom pic. Drop out the center weight = about 110.
  • Racing on a flat track this weekend so this'll get tested against several others.

 

1-hybrid Cn Am 001.JPG

 

1-hybrid Cn Am 002.JPG

 

1-hybrid race ready 001.JPG


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Jim Fowler




#2 Dominator

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 01:12 PM

Very cool Jim

A motor is only as fast as the chassis it's in.
 
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#3 Tim Neja

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 07:26 PM

Looks really good Jim!! Love the "hybrid" configurations!! They seem to be very forgiving and fast!! Good luck with it!! :)


She's real fine, my 409!!!

#4 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 08:46 PM

Very very nice. I really like it.


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#5 Tom Eatherly

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 09:05 PM

Jim,

 Another nice set-up. If it's anything like my NB-5 on a flat track, well, it's gonna be killer. We'll be talking in June. And thanks again.


Tom Eatherly

#6 JimF

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 10:54 PM

Jim,

 Another nice set-up. If it's anything like my NB-5 on a flat track, well, it's gonna be killer. We'll be talking in June. And thanks again.

 

Thanks Tom and everybody......

 

At this point, I don't forsee any problems in my making the June race @ BPR. I already have NB-2 & NB-4 in the box so I wanted something different in flex to go with those. I'm re-working my .039 rail car but right now, it's just a little too bitey. We'll see how this one shakes.


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#7 George Kimber

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Posted 10 May 2016 - 06:44 AM

Hi Jim.
George from over the Pond!
Love your work , Always make a Beeline for your new posts.
You put a lot of effort and time into presenting the images of the chassis
in as near as perfect condition.
Perhaps sometime you could give us an insight into how you achieve
such solid, yet clean joints. Are the joints cleaned off or are you controlling
the flow of the solder ?
The added dimension of your posts are the structured development of the designs
because we are Racing after all and your conclusions and how these changes alter
the characteristics of the cars behaviour .
All great stuff , many thanks for sharing with the Retro Community
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#8 JimF

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Posted 10 May 2016 - 11:27 AM

Hi George, thanks for the very kind words.

 

The design part is what gives me the most impetus to build as much as I do. Each time I build something and then try it, it gives me a thought to pursue about a variation or something else entirely. It would give me a case of the vapors to have to sit down at the bench and do like 10 frames in a row that were all the same.

 

On the solder joint thing, it's a little of flow control and cleaning too. I do try to take care with the initial joint to not get too much solder on it. However, as I go along, I'll periodically scrub the chassis down so I can see underneath all the flux goop. At that time, if there is some leakage, overflow, or just a little careless blob, I'll try to knock it down as much as possible with sandpaper, scotchbrite, and (mostly) various metal brushes. If something got really globby, I'll usually, clean the piece off completely with a solder wick and then do it over.

 

As you say.....these are for racing and that is the impetus for the design(s). However, when I can't race or even get to a track for testing, it's good to have them reasonably nice to look at as well.


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#9 George Kimber

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Posted 11 May 2016 - 04:36 PM

Jim .
There is a perfectionist in your character .
One tip which will take out the removal of most of the surplus solder is to use a cotton bud to wipe the joint as you flow the solder.
Regarding Chassis ,every chassis I build has slight differences in the layout or thickness' of Brass.
I am constantly rethinking pivot placements and testing them at the track .
Fortunately the UK tracks are all Flat tracks with varying degrees of difficulty which brings into play greater driving skills and less emphasis on the need for the Right motor and Tyre ,compounds this is a Saloon chassis which has proved very successfull frame using split pans.,weighs around 130gr . .jimage.jpeg

image.jpeg

We have an Anglewinder class in the UK using original C can but modern Endbell , Armatures and running gear . Minimum weight of 120gr.
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#10 JimF

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Posted 12 May 2016 - 12:10 PM

Thanks for the cotton swab tip. I'll try it for sure. Also, thanks for sharing those pics. It's always good to see different stuff. The variety of cars that I build help keep me interested and sometimes I go a little overboard in trying variations, but....that's what a hobby is about. I particularly like that anglewinder of yours because it reminds me of old school late 60's cars. I know that it's not and there's some new thinking on that one but the appearance is classic and also very different from the anglewinders that we run. I just started a couple of full sidewinder chassis for hardbody cars for a customer and that was a whole different mindset too. That's where a lot of the smiles come from for me. 


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Jim Fowler

#11 George Kimber

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Posted 12 May 2016 - 04:27 PM

Thanks for the cotton swab tip. I'll try it for sure. Also, thanks for sharing those pics. It's always good to see different stuff. The variety of cars that I build help keep me interested and sometimes I go a little overboard in trying variations, but....that's what a hobby is about. I particularly like that anglewinder of yours because it reminds me of old school late 60's cars. I know that it's not and there's some new thinking on that one but the appearance is classic and also very different from the anglewinders that we run. I just started a couple of full sidewinder chassis for hardbody cars for a customer and that was a whole different mindset too. That's where a lot of the smiles come from for me. 



#12 team burrito

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Posted 12 May 2016 - 11:43 PM

On the solder joint thing, it's a little of flow control and cleaning too. I do try to take care with the initial joint to not get too much solder on it. However, as I go along, I'll periodically scrub the chassis down so I can see underneath all the flux goop. At that time, if there is some leakage, overflow, or just a little careless blob, I'll try to knock it down as much as possible with sandpaper, scotchbrite, and (mostly) various metal brushes. If something got really globby, I'll usually, clean the piece off completely with a solder wick and then do it over.

that's what the mini-torch is for.


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#13 JimF

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Posted 25 May 2016 - 06:46 PM

First track test was last weekend on the technical flat track @ Slot Car Raceway in Rohnert Park Ca. This car was everything I'd want for a flat track racer. It was set up as shown below. Some additional weight added on for (122 total)  and a Retro Hawk motor @ 7-28. I ended up racing one of my "no brainer" cars with a TSR motor @ 8-29  because the track conditions were a little weird and the slower TSR motor was more driveable. Although the hybrid was possibly a tenth faster at it's best, the more driveable car was the better choice. I also have tested this car on the Purple Angel speedway track @ Fast Track Hobbies in Rocklin Ca. but the track condition was very bad so results were inconclusive.

 

As an aside, I have some concern about the small brass rails on banked speedway tracks. Although I don't know this for sure, I'm wondering if those small brass rails might take a longitudinal bend from hammering a tight bank repeatedly.

 

 

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Jim Fowler

#14 Tom Eatherly

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Posted 25 May 2016 - 08:01 PM

Hello Jim,

Do you think the "hybrid" would as good or better on BPR's flattrack than the "No-Brainer"? Hopefully you'll bring that hybrid down in June and we'll have a pow-wow. Really liking the N/B. See ya.


Tom Eatherly

#15 Dennis David

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Posted 25 May 2016 - 08:15 PM

We're really lucky to have Jim racing in the SF Bay Area. Make sure you give him back after June. ;-)

I'll be wanting a 1/32 anglewinder after the 4th!

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#16 JimF

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Posted 25 May 2016 - 09:01 PM

Hello Jim,

Do you think the "hybrid" would as good or better on BPR's flattrack than the "No-Brainer"? Hopefully you'll bring that hybrid down in June and we'll have a pow-wow. Really liking the N/B. See ya.

 

Tom:

 

The reason for the NB in the first place is that it works on a lot of tracks and conditions. Multi-rail/flexible cars can be faster sometimes but not always. Also, believe it or not, "faster" is not always "better". More laps is better and although I didn't win the race last time out, the Hybrid probably wouldn't have given me the extra half lap that I needed. This may be partially due to the fact that I had a TSR in the NB and thus, it was easier to drive than the faster Hybrid with the Retro Hawk was. If the track @ SCR had been at its absolute best  on that day, the Hybrid would probably have been better to race. On race day, you can only switch so much, then, you gotta go with what what you got.....hence the No Brainer.

 

Having said all that, in general, race day conditions at BPR are usually more consistent than what we mostly experience up here in the frozen North. Also, the BPR track is somewhat less technical than the one @ SCR. A higher bite car can sometimes be an advantage on a track like BPR but sometimes less than ideal on a technical track or if conditions are odd. I will for sure bring the Hybrid with me when I come down this year. Unfortunately, that won't be June b/c your flat track race is going to fall on the same weekend as our monthly race. 


Jim Fowler

#17 Tom Eatherly

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 08:38 AM

OK, good to know. Maybe we'll catch up at the "Western Summer Classic".


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#18 JimF

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 12:35 PM

I'm rethinking coming down there for the June race. I could stop at Motown on the way down, set my cars up then, then continue on to BP. Then leave after the race on Sat, drive to Modesto and be there Sunday morning. for our races. Sort of a scramble but doable.


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Jim Fowler

#19 Tom Eatherly

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 07:15 PM

You a busy boy Jim! That's a load of driving[real] and racing. 


Tom Eatherly

#20 Dennis David

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 09:14 PM

If it was in July I would car pool with you.

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#21 JimF

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 10:46 AM

You a busy boy Jim! That's a load of driving[real] and racing. 

 

Actually, the same amount of driving over the same number of days as if I were just coming down there for a monthly. The diff is a bunch o' testing on Wednesday @ Motown and then races on both Saturday down there and then a four race day on Sunday back at Modesto.


Jim Fowler

#22 boxerdog

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 12:32 PM

I'm rethinking coming down there for the June race. I could stop at Motown on the way down, set my cars up then, then continue on to BP. Then leave after the race on Sat, drive to Modesto and be there Sunday morning. for our races. Sort of a scramble but doable.

Perfect! We want you at the track, preferably exhausted and with your cars tweaked!!!

 

JK


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#23 JimF

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 12:58 PM

Can just about gay-rone-tee at least one part of that............... :crazy:


Jim Fowler





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