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Car weight 1969 vs 2016


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#1 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 08 June 2016 - 03:33 PM

In reviewing several Car Model magazines from 1968 and 1969, it seems remarkable that we run 1/24 scale cars at about 160 grams (5 1/2 oz) versus about 105 grams (3.7 oz) today. Todays cars are about 65% of the weight as back in the 60's! Now I know that we had alot more HP back in the late 60's, but how would the lap times stack up? Of course, the track voltage would matter a lot.

 

In the June 1969 article, we (NE Ohio racers) raced on the 220ft Engleman in Brooklyn, Ohio. TQ was Gil Pataky turning 15 laps and 39 sections in 2 minute which works out to be approximately 7.6 second laps without a de-slot. I am guessing that we might turn around 5 second laps today if we could run on the same track with todays cars. (Yes, I am reliving the late 60's today.)

 

EDIT: I corrected the lap time above based on Mike's insight that it was 2 minute qualifiers, not 1 minute.


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#2 MSwiss

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Posted 08 June 2016 - 04:14 PM

I bet Gil's time was for 2 minutes.

I know 2 minutes was the norm for Hinsdale and their King.

Somewhere in the 22-23 lap range, was the record there, in that era.

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#3 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 08 June 2016 - 04:57 PM

Mike, yes, I think that you are correct. So the lap times are 7.6 seconds. Were we really that slow? Amazing. I could take a nap in the 7.6 second lap.


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#4 MSwiss

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Posted 08 June 2016 - 06:04 PM

Afraid so. Lol

If that was a 1 minute run, a 5 minute heat would be 75-78 laps.

In 1990, with full air control, a huge heat on the 220' Purple mile was "only" 68 laps.

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#5 Phil Worthy

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Posted 08 June 2016 - 06:06 PM

Mike, yes, I think that you are correct. So the lap times are 7.6 seconds. Were we really that slow? Amazing. I could take a nap in the 7.6 second lap.

 

 

Gee Dan, I don't know. You are talking about a scale mile track. When running Can-Am on the Sovereign, different track but the same length, the best lap is typically something like a  7.2. I think the Engleman is a faster track but perhaps 1969 was not as big a difference as it seems.



#6 Tex

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Posted 08 June 2016 - 07:42 PM

The thread title is about car weight but all the talk is about lap times. The car weights are different now vs. then because we ran heavy glue back then... you needed the weight to be able to carry the car through the glue and you needed big horsepower to pull you out.


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#7 MSwiss

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Posted 08 June 2016 - 07:49 PM

The thread title is about car weight but all the talk is about lap times.

Until we straightened out the lap times, discussing the weights wouldn't of really made sense.

 

I think what came first was the heavy cars that needed to be that way, since the tracks were generally bumpy, and the downforce was somewhat minimal.

 

Also the tires didn't have the kind of bite, that fish/natural rubber tires, have.


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#8 Dominator

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Posted 08 June 2016 - 07:58 PM

The biggest two factors are bodies being a little thinner and tire compounds being that much better now.
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#9 Samiam

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Posted 08 June 2016 - 08:43 PM

Today tracks have a much better surface finish.. Goes along with the better tires. Early cars needed weight to produce mechanical grip and deal with the track conditions. 


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#10 tonyp

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Posted 09 June 2016 - 05:52 AM

The orange tires were all the same rubber no matter who cut them and did not make the traction today's compounds do. Motors were bigger and heavier, and bodies thicker. The cars did rely more on mechanical traction than aero which in the 60's was minimal or none. In most cases the cars ran as fast or faster without the body. Add in heavier wheels, 1/8'axles.

As soon as we went to angle winders the cars immediately dropped a ton of weight, which gradually increased as more and more glue was applied to the track surface. The cars had to get through the glue so weight became more.
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#11 Brian Cochrane

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Posted 09 June 2016 - 01:15 PM

When you look back at the cars from that time, to us they are heavy.Back then we thought they were lite. Tire grip and tire widths and weight of tires to me are the biggest factor to why the cars weighed what they had to .All I know is back then you thought you were flying when you had a fast car.At the track I raced at I don't recall any glue used before 1970.We used tire cleaners on our tires and oil of wintergreen.The cars slid in the corners they weren't on rails like todays cars. motors blew up because of the weight they had to pull.


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#12 Brian Cochrane

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Posted 09 June 2016 - 01:20 PM

When anglewinders came out around 1967 the motor weight was further back in the chassis which gave you more traction and also a wider amount of weight across the back end of the car.All this added up to more traction and a more stable handling car. The new anglewinder killed the inline cars.



#13 Keith Tanaka

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Posted 09 June 2016 - 05:39 PM

Car weight in the 60's compared to today's retro cars are two different situations. 

In the heydays (1966-1969) in SoCal, glue was not allowed on the track (although you could put glue on the tires). The rear tires were very narrow compared to today (and the minimum diameter was bigger than today). Bodies had very little downforce other than the rear spoiler and front diaplanes allowed in those days. The track clearance was 1/16" for the entire car/chassis. The motors had more horsepower but were much heavier and taller than the typical Falcon motors used today. Also, the magnets in the 60's motors were very weak compared to today's magnets. 

I believe the main reason for the difference in car weight and performance, comparing 60's vs. today: lighter/lower profile Falcon motor, wider/lower profile tires, more aero body, 1/16" vs. .050/.015" track clearance, and track design/surface. The wing King tracks are much faster/smoother than the 60's red king tracks. 

 

 

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p.s. - the 60's motors had hotter winds (i.e., 24 single/double 27, there were no motor rules back then), but weaker magnets and much heavier/taller motor cans which affected handling. 


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#14 Ramcatlarry

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Posted 10 June 2016 - 12:54 PM

Not that they ever WERE quick, my three retired Pittman cars are 135 - 150 grams.  The two inline cars are 1/32 and the 1/24 car was the heaviest with the Revell hardbody RS-60 body.  I have a lightweight 1/24th DC-65 to restore that will be under 125 grams when a fresh shell gets mounted.

 

Modern motors are about half of the mass of 36D or other padlock types.


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#15 Phil Hackett

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 11:31 AM

Through the 1970s and into the 1980s John Geddes and I ran cars much lighter than the average cars of the time. The entire car (G7 & G27) weighed 90-95 grams (remember this is with full sized c-can motors, Faas bronze gears, Aluminum wheels with no fancy lightening holes, heavy body reinforcements, Brass "drop arm" & bat pans, ect). Sometimes it was a disadvantage because the cars were much more glue sensitive and could be bogged easily (solved by "going DEEEEEEEPEEEERRRRRR").

 

It was a philosophical thing about not doing what everyone else was doing. Ya know, being a contrarian to convention...


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#16 Tim Wilkins

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 02:21 PM

Through the years, the weight in slot cars has now shifted to the drivers (myself included). :)


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