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Bake or glue?


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#1 Joe Rose IV

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Posted 12 June 2016 - 11:52 AM

I just melted a PS end bell for a first timer 16d motor whose mags get loose (I've got afew now loosely magged cans now)after who knows how many races n practice time.
Does anybody have a video of how you go about prepping n baking with Koford glue?
What to use in place of the plastic endbell? (baked for 45 min at 400 degrees)
The gap i got doesn't look bad for scotch tape, I dremelled the xtra glue off screw tabs, the spare endbell fit isn't half bad.
I did this first time run with a dumpy 16d to learn, but the mother of necessity is a PS group12 whose mags went loose.
Does PS use super glue for their motors?

Also I'd like to poll the ratio of super glue vs Koford.
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#2 Arne Saknussem

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Posted 12 June 2016 - 03:43 PM

There's an excellent tutorial covering motor building right here (on Slotblog)

 

http://slotblog.net/...winning-c-cans/

 

Covers everything.


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#3 Samiam

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Posted 12 June 2016 - 05:07 PM

When gluing magnets I rough up the can and magnet surfaces with some 120 grit.

 

Been using J-B Weld with no problems so far.


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#4 Joe Rose IV

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Posted 12 June 2016 - 09:42 PM

I find that there is way too much space between the magnet and the inside of the can. On both sides so is there a way to center the endbell side so it's gap is tight and perfectly equal top to bottom? Brass shims on both sides?

#5 havlicek

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Posted 13 June 2016 - 06:37 AM

CA glue should be fine for a mild motor and Greg's tutorial is great.  CA glue is only good to around the boiling point of water, and for hotter motors, JB Weld should work fine as it's rated to over 400 degrees or more if you use the right one (not the fast set type).  Any motor that actually got hot enough to physically ruin the bond with JB Weld is probably rapidly on it's way to destruction as NO magnet wire is rated to anywhere near those temps.  With any adhesive, it's important to do the right prep (*see Sam's post above) to get a physically strong bond though and I would guess that way more bonds fail because of poor prep than because the material experienced operating temps beyond it's limits.  Removing any and all oil or other residue from the backs of the magnets and the interior surfaces of the can, and slight roughing-up of the can interior to provide "tooth" is really important.  You could even scarify the backs of the magnets with a diamond wheel (if ceramics), but that shouldn't be necessary at all.   ***Doing something about gaps is also important, and with typical folded and welded cans, there are often less-than-perfect mating surfaces.  If the welds are an issue, grind them down with a small stone.  CA glue has little-to-no gap-filling ability, JB Weld has a great ability to fill gaps.  CA glue actually "likes" smooth surfaces, but requires almost perfect fitment to work best.  Knowing the working characteristics of the materials is important.

So, while the Koford glue is surely a fine material, something like that is completely unnecessary for a 16D motor.  CA glue should work just fine if used properly.  Even JB Weld should be overkill theoretically, but you'd get a solid level of "extra insurance" by using it.  JB Weld will cure just fine at room temps but takes a while.  If you're in a hurry, you can speed cure JB Weld at only "warm" temps (less than 200F) but I use 10 minutes at around 225F and after cooling, you can immediately assemble the motor...just don't plan on moving or removing those magnets afterwards.  :)

 

-john


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#6 Joe Rose IV

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 12:29 AM

Thanks for the replies guys. I'll keep the koford adhesive for the c can I need to remount mags on.
Anybody use E6000?

#7 Zippity

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 01:41 AM

Anybody use E6000?

 

Yeah, but not for magnets :(


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#8 Champion 507

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Posted 07 July 2016 - 03:25 AM

My wife uses E6000 to make some of her jewelry with.


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#9 Robert BG

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Posted 07 July 2016 - 08:27 AM

I've used ca glue to hold things in place long enough to bake the Koford stuff and while it worked ok I just went back to JB weld and about 200* 10-20 min set in a toaster oven because I've had better results than messing with ca and baking.

In case you're wondering about JB welds strength I used it for years in all of my International 15 motors years ago and still use it from time to time now.I even have a few G 27 motors where I've used it with no problems.I'm actually in the process of trying some of my 20 year old RJR cans with modern endbells and mags and I had a heck of a time getting mags out I put in 20 years ago and while I highly recommend prepping things the best you can,the one motor I just tore down was thrown together in a hurry at a race and baked on a car manifold before a race because I lost a mag in a practice wreck :D In order to get the mags out I had to use two soldering irons on high to heat the cans enough to loosen the bond.


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