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Mercedes-Benz W25 Avus Streamliner


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#1 Pablo

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Posted 13 June 2016 - 08:39 PM

Mercedes-Benz-W25-Avus-Streamliner-7430.jpg

 

WB: 3 7/8"

GL: 1 1/16"

Width: 3.125"

Motor: Havlicek 16D, 40T/27

Bracket: Russkit 26D

Front wheels: Vintage set screw with O-ring rubber, 13/16" OD

Rear wheels: Vintage set screw with Alpha Wonder Rubber, 13/16" OD

Clearance: front .032", rear .062"

Flag: Jet Flag secured with Classic weight

Chassis: ISO, tapered center section with .050" thick (drop arm) tongue, outer section/front axle: rails and tilting bat pans.

Body is an original, not a re-pop, and has a protective covering. I'm guessing it's a Betta but not sure:

 

IMG_2253.JPG


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#2 Pablo

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 04:49 PM

I'm feeling very "German" today :)

 

1c032f105bf11303494cca622d196e72.jpg

 

Endbell mounting holes tapped 2-56 for brass round head machine screws.

26D Russkit bracket sanded, flattened, squared and trued as usual.

Now it needs bracing to lock it in, but first I needed to trim the screws to see what will fit where. 

Turned down the heads to about .125".

 

I never noticed how irregular the machining under screw heads is until I looked at them with my geezer goggles.

We don't want to tweak the face of the bracket when the screws are tightened.

So I tried a new trick; they fit loose into the 3/32 Magnehone facing tool but by pressing straight down with a screwdriver and rotating them,

it removes any flash and trues up the face (between head and bracket face) nicely.

 

IMG_2258.JPG


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#3 Pablo

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Posted 15 June 2016 - 04:41 PM

Internal bracket bracing done for now; more to follow once I get the axle tube jigged up. Typical overbuilt Pablo rear end :)

Side wires are .047", back face .032", bottom edge .039".

 

IMG_2276.JPG

 

With 13/16" OD rear wheels and a 40T/27 armature, I need about a 4.8 to 1 gear ratio. ARP 6T straight steel pinion and a 29 or 30T crown should work.

All four wheels are courtesy of dc-65X ( :heart:) and the rears will be shod with Alpha Wonder Rubber:

 

IMG_2288.JPG


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#4 Pablo

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Posted 16 June 2016 - 11:59 AM

"Bushings 101" - I used a fat axle and my flag sander block to set up the bushings. Tacked 'em in, then checked for perfect alignment.

 

IMG_2302.JPG

 

Bracket is done. The addition of rails will make it even stronger :aggressive:

 

IMG_2307.JPG


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#5 Mark Johnson

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Posted 16 June 2016 - 10:01 PM

looks good 



#6 Bobby Page

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Posted 17 June 2016 - 03:02 PM

Looks like you may have your hands full with this one.  Can't wait to see the body painted. :victory:


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#7 Pablo

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Posted 17 June 2016 - 08:29 PM

The paint will be same as the SLR-300 - Tamiya Acrylic Aluminum backed with white.

 

Q/A inspector says "these nasty old front wheels are too wobbly for a streamliner - save them for a big heavy slow car"

 

DSC06737.JPG

 

IMG_2335.JPG

 

So they got labeled as such and thrown back in the vintage wheel "box of horrors" :laugh2:

 

IMG_2353.JPG

 

Front wheels, "Plan B": set screw fronts that actually match the rears and fit the spoke inserts  :dance3:

I'll put big O-rings on them and grind to 13/16" OD.

(pre-trimmed donuts on rear wheels are rough-cut only, and curing for a couple days)

 

 

IMG_2346.JPG

 

I cannibalized two brass sleeves from Parma pink retro crown gears and sized the widths to fit. New plan for fronts is a 3/32" axle rotating in a 1/8" tube.

 

IMG_2349.JPG

 

After a marathon late-night tinning party yesterday with the Weller 140 Watt Gun, I think it's about time to build a Streamliner chassis.

 

IMG_2356.JPG


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#8 Pablo

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Posted 18 June 2016 - 11:56 AM

Before I cut this drop arm, I set some tongue tilt into it as compensation for the .035"/.062" chassis clearance slope

 

IMG_2361.JPG

 

Much as I hate to mess with Havlicek's handywork, the bottom of the endbell and one post protector needed a little shaving to allow it to lay low as possible.

As long as I had it apart anyway, I soldered the hoods to the holders, tinned the wire connectors, and added one thin spacer above the comm.

A little shaving off the bottom of the bracket also, and we have nirvana - everything sits right where I want it.

 

IMG_2370.JPG


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#9 Pablo

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Posted 18 June 2016 - 06:09 PM

Drop arm needed a lot of TLC to make it true and square.

No doubt the best parts got cherry-picked back in the day. No problemo, this one is going to get cut up anyway :D

I made pencil marks where I want the inner rails to end up.

 

IMG_2377.JPG

 

Looks like my tapered rail plan will work - .062" wires with 90 degree uprights at the rear, butted up against the bracket sides and tubes.

They clear the motor OK, so all I have to do is hit my pencil marks. The indents on Rick's Jig make nice visual reference points.

 

IMG_2378.JPG

 

Now the motor can come out and hide in it's clean baggie again  :bye:


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#10 Pablo

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Posted 18 June 2016 - 08:28 PM

After a 10 minute re-seat of the brushes, the motor is "good to go" :)

Havlicek has a rare talent of making small brushes work well on arms with big wire.

This motor will push the streamliner nicely :good:

 

IMG_2389.JPG


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#11 Pablo

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Posted 19 June 2016 - 09:51 AM

Changed my mind on the taper and just went straight with the drop arm.

I shortened and narrowed it, then beveled the rail edges a la dc-65x to give the solder a place to pool

 

IMG_2403.JPG


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#12 Pablo

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 01:56 PM

Twin .0625" center section wire rails with a pair of .047" stiffeners on the bracket's sides to reduce the motor's tendency to pitch.

That's just my theory. I know Jay Guard doesn't like lots of up and down flex right at the bracket face on retro F1's.

I took his hint and started adding stiffness there. It worked well on the Mercedes Benz SLR 300 and I expect it to work here also.

40T of 27 isn't exactly a Mini-Brute motor :heat: so it's something I considered.

 

IMG_2413.JPG

 

Just for fun, one of my favorite works of art, by Bob Suzuki:

 

frankenmotor.jpg

 


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#13 Pablo

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 03:52 PM

McMaster-Carr tubing cutter gizmo that dc-65x recommended takes all the guesswork out of cutting the insides of the axle tubes true :yes:

Bill from NH suggested a light pass or two on them at the desired cut point using a tubing cutter before soldering them in -

a great idea, but by that time I had already ordered the gizmo :laugh2:

 

IMG_2423.JPG


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#14 dc-65x

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 07:37 PM

Looking good Pablo...... and I'm glad you like the gizmo! :D


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Rick Thigpen
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The Independent Scratchbuilder
There's much more to come...


#15 Pablo

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 11:31 AM

Thanks, Rick :D

 

I took extra precaution to ensure the Iso hinge tube never fails with a pair of .032 brass rod wraparound gizmos.

.063" Iso rails have keepers for brass-to-brass hinge pivot points

 

IMG_2427.JPG


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#16 Pablo

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 04:03 PM

Wheels are done, all about .817" OD. Rear rubbers are Alpha Wonder, fronts are "Buna N" O-rings.

70A on the durometer scale :buba:

 

IMG_2475.JPG


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#17 Pablo

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Posted 25 June 2016 - 09:58 AM

.047" wire Iso rail cross-connector. Starting to look like a plumber's nightmare back here :laugh2:

 

IMG_2551.JPG

 

The .063" crosspiece will do double-duty as Iso rail connector and bite bar for the pans

 

IMG_2553.JPG

 


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#18 Pablo

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Posted 26 June 2016 - 12:54 AM

I started out with a (10 thou) piece of bulletproofing to set lift for the outer section

 

IMG_2558.JPG

 

Too much. Then I tried a folded piece of blue masking tape (about 4 thou).

Bingo, that's what I want - just a hair of movement :good:

 

IMG_2561.JPG

 

IMG_2566.JPG

 

 


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#19 Pablo

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Posted 26 June 2016 - 04:08 PM

.055" rail spacers....then a brass rail....you probably know where this is going :)

Changed my mind on bite bar placement; it will be a little further back. I cut the original and left it in place as a cross connector.

Time for a preliminary tumbling to get 'er cleaned up

 

IMG_2578.JPG


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#20 Pablo

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Posted 27 June 2016 - 10:30 AM

Nice n clean, my new IRRA® F1 chassis - is it legal ? :laugh2:

If it is, it won't be a few hours from now..... :D

 

IMG_2579.JPG


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#21 Pablo

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 02:49 PM

Chassis is done. .032" pans with a little tilt.

 

IMG_2594.JPG

 

Flag rotation surfaces on the vintage tongue were faced with a Magnehone, of course

 

IMG_2600.JPG

 

Brass gizmos on the .063" bite bar to keep from gouging the pans. Pan hinge tubes are doubled

 

IMG_2602.JPG

 

Iso hinge tube is NOT going anywhere :laugh2:

 

IMG_2607.JPG

 

IMG_2615.JPG

 

Iso hinge and outer section rails are designed to allow the rear end to wiggle waggle a little -

note the space between center and outer rail sections is visible on the stbd. side -

also, a corresponding space between the stbd. brass Iso hinge gizmo and the hinge tube.

This is simply because the outer section is shifted to that side in the photo.

The guys at Chicagoland Raceway call this "rear steer"; whatever you call it, I like a little more in the rear than the front :dance3:

 

IMG_2619.JPG

 

Now, where did I put that doggone big wire vintage H Power motor with the Hong Kong endbell ? :)


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#22 Pablo

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 06:19 PM

Ready for track test this Saturday. Double Marklin Train wires, 6/30 gears, Prime braid.

Of course it passes the drivetrain test with flying colors, and there isn't much doubt in my mind it will handle well.

This isn't the first chassis of this type I've built, so I can afford to be cocky :P

 

IMG_2627.JPG

 

But there are always a few minor bugs to work out. The left front wheel is a little wobbly; probably a sleeve issue I can fix later.

One of the nice things about an Iso is, front wheels don't bother the car near as much as other designs.


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#23 Pablo

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Posted 02 July 2016 - 09:55 PM

For the track test, I used a suitably sized and shaped body for the test (used Choti re-pop with the rear end shortened) since the W25 body isn't ready yet.

 

-H Power motor is a complete home run. Perfect power, plenty potent, a nice whistling sound as it winds out. Gearing at 6/30 is good, no change needed.

-Handles real sweet, as I expected, very forgiving. It will drive hard and deep into a turn, plant it's feet and dig in without deslotting.

-No problems noted. It's fun to drive, especially watching heads turn as they hear the motor come onto it's sweet spot.

 

The old German font decals are coming from Patto's soon:

 

http://www.pattospla.../numbers424.JPG


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#24 Pablo

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Posted 06 July 2016 - 03:48 PM

Wire spokes w/ knockoffs wheel inserts

 

IMG_2702.JPG


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#25 bluecars

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Posted 07 July 2016 - 06:09 AM

Super cool!!!


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#26 boxerdog

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Posted 07 July 2016 - 08:46 AM

Outstanding!


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#27 Bobby Page

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Posted 07 July 2016 - 05:18 PM

I thought those were whitewalls for a second!!  You could paint them and they would look like whitewalls.  :good: 

 

Anyway it's looks excellent so far.  Of course it's Pablo, why wouldn't it look good?

 

:sun_bespectacled:  I like it.


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#28 Martin

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Posted 11 July 2016 - 11:03 AM

Looks like someone pulled this off a Carrera car, I bought the hard body to do the same thing with it. But would rather just buy it. Any info on where to get one.

Love watching a craftsman in action.


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#29 Pablo

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Posted 11 July 2016 - 02:17 PM

Thanks Martin. I don't know who made this one and I don't see one like it at Betta.


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#30 Pablo

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 06:35 PM

German style decals from Pattos. They are inside, 3 coats of Faux Glaze, and the protective outer body wrap is still in place

 

IMG_2884.JPG

 


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#31 Pablo

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Posted 16 August 2016 - 05:15 PM

W25 body all masked up and ready for the first paint job in my new apartment.

 

IMG_2910.JPG

 

IMG_2911.JPG

 

So many things could go wrong, I'm a little nervous :huh:


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#32 Jairus

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Posted 16 August 2016 - 05:45 PM

Wow, missed this thread completely!  Looks great and with all that preparation... how can you mess up the paint?  :crazy:

 

Chassis is perfect and solder joints on the motor bracket about as good as I have ever seen.
Very nice car so far! 

 

Build on! :good:


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#33 Pablo

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Posted 17 August 2016 - 08:41 AM

Thanks Jairus ! You taught us how to Iso the hinge way back there and it sure works :good:

I was just nervous about the first paint job in a new place, mental distractions in a new environment n whatnot :wacko2:

 

If I had left the wheel wells uncut like the real car, I would have had to make the wheel widths narrow enough to not have the wheels rub during cornering.

And I chose not to do that. If the body was 3 1/4" wide instead of 3 1/8", I could have made the widths 3 1/8" and left them intact. Maybe.

 

The wells are just rough cut at this point:

 

IMG_2912.JPG

 

IMG_2915.JPG

 


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#34 Pablo

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Posted 17 August 2016 - 09:20 PM

A 1937 era driver/interior presents a new challenge for me. Racing helmets weren't used until about 1950.

Rudolph Caracciola was a popular German driver of these cars in the day and he sure didn't use one.

https://en.wikipedia...dolf_Caracciola

 

rudolf-caracciola-in-the-racing-car-1936-C46A0G.jpg

 

I found one head figure that may work, but it will require a new paint job and some clever mounting techniques

 

IMG_2926.JPG

 

The face needs major reconstructive surgery to resemble Rudolph. That is my goal for tomorrow :)


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#35 beardogracing

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 09:01 AM

Paul, you may find this sight very interesting, 

 

http://www.immensemi...ts_figures.html

 

 

Chris


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Chris Wright

 

nRW8qQsEZkLUgHSN2Kp6.jpg

 

 


#36 Tex

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 09:06 AM

Holy Cow! You can actually RECOGNIZE some of those drivers' faces! FANTASTIC!


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#37 Pablo

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 10:00 AM

Oh yeah, I definitely found it interesting Chris, Thanks !!

BINGO :dance3:  I ordered the Juan Manuel Fangio in both 1/32 and 1/24

 

Looks like my goal for today has already been met :laugh2:


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#38 Jairus

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 10:20 AM

The arms are cast long so you can have extra material for connecting to the steering wheel and making adjustments.

I've used these drivers for a while now and LOVE them!
After painting you can fill the goggle area with clear epoxy and they look very real!


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#39 Pablo

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 10:43 AM

Jairus, could you please mike a 1/24 and a 1/32 head for me ?

This is a big long 1/24 body but it looks like it may need a 1/32 head due to the small driver compartment.


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#40 Jairus

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 12:01 PM

Don't seem to have any 1/32" but here is a 1/24" in an older project.

 

IMG_3666proof-vi.jpg

 

IMG_3665proof-vi.jpg


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Jairus H Watson - Artist
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#41 Jairus

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 12:06 PM

Oh... as far as the aviator helmet goes... I made this one out of tissue paper soaked with Elmers glue and water.
P1011338-vi.jpg


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Jairus H Watson - Artist
Need something painted, soldered, carved, or killed? - jairuswtsn@aol.com

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http://www.ratholecustoms.com
Check out some of the cool stuff on my Fotki!


#42 Pablo

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 01:29 PM

Jairus:

-thanks for the sizing info on the figures, that answers my question.

-Cheater limits emoticons to 3, so I'll only use 1: :heart: for the "skeleton driving the hot rod dune buggy" car. X5  :D Literally "bad to the bone" :love: 


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#43 Pablo

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 04:54 PM

That's it for now, until the driver arrives

 

IMG_2936.JPG


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Paul Wolcott

#44 Half Fast

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 10:08 PM

Good thing you didn't include the insignia behind Rudolph Caracciola's head. :good:

 

Cheers


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Bill Botjer

Faster then, wiser now


#45 Samiam

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 10:48 PM

A Maltese Cross will suffice.


Sam Levitch
 
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#46 Pablo

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 06:20 AM

Discretion is the better part of valor.... :sun_bespectacled:


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#47 Pablo

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 06:04 PM

Juan Manuel Fangio arrived and the 1/24 size is perfect :)

Immense Miniatures rocks !

 

IMG_2944.JPG

 

 


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#48 Pablo

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Posted 07 September 2016 - 05:32 PM

Streamliner drivers don't have to be pretty, they just have to go fast.

 

IMG_3027.JPG


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#49 dc-65x

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Posted 07 September 2016 - 06:45 PM

Looking good Pablo and for sure, Fangio was....... FAST!   :good:


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#50 Pablo

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Posted 08 September 2016 - 02:11 PM

Thanks Rick :D  Streamliner is complete.

 

Driver head attached via 1/32" brass rod and earring keeper - Fangio's head will flex, but not break, in a rollover:

 

IMG_3032.JPG

 

Body pin holes all reinforced with bulletproofing:

 

IMG_3047.JPG

 

Still amazes me what Mercedes Benz was doing way back in 1937. No helmets. Blistering speeds. Awesome technology :wizard:

Thanks to all those who helped me build this car:

 

IMG_3053.JPG

 

IMG_3057.JPG

 

IMG_3071.JPG

 

IMG_3072.JPG

 

 


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