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USRA Nats need a change ASAP


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#1 Mr. GoFast

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Posted 07 August 2016 - 07:49 PM

I really think it's time for the USRA to make some changes when you have 6 in Pro Box 12 and 3 in C12 and 7 in Pro C12. In my opinion the Nats is way to long 10 days (really). The Nats is loaded with a lot of classes that need to be drop or redone.

Time for a leadership that has a clue about what's going on in the wing car world.
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#2 Samiam

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Posted 07 August 2016 - 08:13 PM

Ya' think?...
 
As noted there should be a drastic reduction in classes.
 
OM-12
27 Light (OM?)
Pro-27
OMO
Pro-Open
 
And if something is deemed legal it is good for at least five years no matter what happens.


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Sam Levitch
 
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#3 Arne Saknussem

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Posted 07 August 2016 - 10:00 PM

I really think it's time for the USRA to make some changes when you have 6 in Pro Box 12 and 3 in C12 and 7 in Pro C12. In my opinion the Nats is way to long 10 days (really). The Nats is loaded with a lot of classes that need to be drop or redone.

Time for a leadership that has a clue about what's going on in the wing car world.

 

transport-sink-sinking-metaphor-going_do


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#4 Half Fast

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Posted 07 August 2016 - 11:14 PM

Wing car racing is dying.

 

And the USRA is standing on its oxygen hose.

 

Cheers,


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#5 Cheater

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 05:43 AM

I asked Tracy to post this here, after he posted it on Facebook.

It's worth a look at the absolute sh*tstorm at Facebook. Here's a LINK.

 

It would be funny if it wasn't so sad. Most of the guys posting on Facebook don't have a clue.

The Div 1 racers, almost without exception, just don't acknowledge how small their numbers are.


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Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#6 The Number of

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 07:06 AM

The main problem is the rulebook (I am still waiting for mine to show up) makes the process to change so convouleted. It will take a major overhaul of the system to make any changes that don't take two years to implement. A strong leader needs to step up and "MAKE THE USRA GREAT AGAIN" ☺.


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Bill Fulmer

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#7 Cheater

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 07:11 AM

Bill,

 

I think the main problem is the overall organizational structure, where one person can call the shots to suit his or her personal preferences. And having the inmates run the rules is a total disaster.

 

But again, there are probably less than 100 wing cars racers worldwide and that's a problem in itself.


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Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#8 MSwiss

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 08:16 AM

100?

I guess that would be if you counted only super-serious wing racers.

But as far as stuff like Group F, I've had 12-13 race those, in the last few months.

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#9 Zippity

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 08:25 AM

And there's three of us out here in New Zealand :)

 

Just joking. There are more, but we don't have a King track.

 

We race G12 motors in Eurosport chassis on flat road tracks :)

 

What fun!


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#10 jimht

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 08:45 AM

Too many cheap slow classes that are not supported by the raceways.
People that are involved with cheap classes don't travel.
 
Too many expensive slow classes that are also not supported at the raceway level.
People that are involved with high dollar stuff may travel, but there just aren't that many of them.
It could be a nice short weekend for them though if all the Womp Womp classes disappeared.
 
Besides, wing cars are all about speed; slow wing car classes have always been a silly contradiction... running slow cars at the Nats on a track that's designed for incredibly fast cars is like lowering the basket on the court or getting rid of the gutters and using a bigger bowling ball.


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#11 Cheater

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 09:05 AM

100?

I guess that would be if you counted only super-serious wing racers.

But as far as stuff like Group F, I've had 12-13 race those, in the last few months.


What I meant was wing car racers who are paid-up USRA members, since this thread is about the USRA.


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Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#12 The Number of

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 09:52 AM

In my humble opinion, along with others, there are too many classes. There should be a top class with unlimited speed and cost, this is for the SCMs and world record setters.
 
There should be an intro class for those who want to get a taste of the SCM experience.
 
And two classes in between, stepping up in speed and cost to the top class.
 
The two classes in between is where the  problem lies. Anyone running Am/Pro 12, Am/Pro I-15, Am/Pro C-12, Am/Pro 27/ 27L/ OMO, 2MO, all want to preserve their little piece of the pie. Something has got to give and somebody will feel all butt hurt over it.
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#13 Jason Holmes

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 10:12 AM

Start on Wed, end on Sunday sorry but run two classes a day until they're done. GRP 7 (open) last race on Sunday if you're racing till 2 AM oh well. Track needs to be open 24 hours or at least by 6 AM. First tech each day 8:30 close at 9 AM.

 

Time to get it rolling  but 10 days is a joke sorry and don't tell me come and going when you race. BULL the whole thing about the Nats is coming and playing and watching till the end. But most can't afford 12 days of slots with two days of travel added.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Jason


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#14 Cheater

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 10:28 AM

To be brutally honest, I simply don't believe the USRA situation can be salvaged and here's why.

There's absolutely zero consensus at any level on what changes to make (damn near everyone with a stake and/or interest wants something different from everyone else). Even if the USRA adopted a BoD format, I question whether there would be sufficient co-operation among whatever members ended up on a USRA BoD to make it effective and able to agree on what directions to take to address the problems.

I also don't think there is anyone who is willing (read: crazy enough) to take on the thankless task of providing the leadership clearly required.

Would be happy to be wrong in these opinions but I don't believe I am.


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Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#15 jimht

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 10:57 AM

There is no incentive to change. There is no pressure from those in the industry that buy the product.
Raceways generally do not support the really expensive USRA wing car classes.
 
There is no longer any grassroots support for the style of wing cars that are being run nor for the tracks that they are made for.
It's no longer about racing, it's just about speed at any cost.
I can't sell stuff that costs a fortune, is unreliable, and if you get it set up right you don't have to drive it, just rebuild it every heat.


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Jim Honeycutt

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#16 Half Fast

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 11:09 AM

The costs (motors, tires, chassis) for racing even the lower wing car classes are way too expensive for most people, including those who have an interest in slot car racing.

 

Cheers,


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#17 Bent Rim

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 01:30 PM

Caught a real nice flounder yesterday, it was big and fat. But it was only 17 inches long. The rule on the Island is 18 inches or bigger (story of my life, coming up an inch short). Had to throw it back. Can't win them all.

 

So what's going on with all of you??


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#18 Uncle Fred

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 01:45 PM

Is that a weigh-in on the state of USRA racing, Doug?


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#19 Half Fast

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 02:08 PM

Doug-

 

So why aren't you at the Nats? I-15 runs today,

 

Cheers, Big Guy.


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#20 Uncle Fred

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 02:11 PM

I think he's "Gone Fishing" instead...


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#21 Matt Sheldon

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 03:21 PM

The regulars not showing up does not help the situation though, regardless of frustration and boycott tendencies. It actually hurts the already fragile situation. The better move would have been to attend and THEN either come together as a group to preserve the investments you/they all have with the hobby and equipment. Decide at that time either whom is willing to step up or form a new group.

 

Just my .02


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#22 Half Fast

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 03:33 PM

Update:

 

4 racers in I-15 Am

 

6 racers in I-15 Pro

 

So no problem, right?  :D


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#23 jimht

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 03:38 PM

Gets to be less of a problem every year.  :laugh2:  


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#24 Jaz

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 03:46 PM

Jim Huneycutt is right on the money with everything he has said.

 

I quit wing racing 20+ years ago. Back then you had four classes. Box15, I15, G27, G7.  No pros in the lower three classes. Period. Simple.

 

The USRA has created soo many individual classes, with both Am and Pro classisfications, and with shrinking membership/racers in wing racing, it's no wonder they get such poor turnouts.

 

KISS... keep it simple stupid.


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#25 tonyp

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 03:54 PM

Do we even know if the raceway has programs for the USRA classes, and if anyone shows up for them?


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#26 John Streisguth

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 03:56 PM

It's a shame. Back in '90-92, Zeppelin Hobbies was my home track and for the "500" races they held had 50-60 entries in many of the classes. But back then they had four wing classes: Box Stock 15, I-15, G-27 and G-27 (with pro and semi-pro drivers catagories).  

 

IMO, there's too many classes, and too many changes. Cut the number of classes and freeze the rules for five years, with the only changes entertained is if something becomes unavailable. And make the lower classes truly affordable and DIFFERENT...  I don't see the point of every class running nearly identical chassis but with a different motor. Lastly, you can run one class and the one above it, IIRC that's what the rule was back then.


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"Whatever..."

#27 John Streisguth

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 03:57 PM

Jeff Morris, I was typing my post when you posted yours. Seems we think alike.


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"Whatever..."

#28 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 04:00 PM

Bent Rim - I thought in the L.I. Sound they were called flukes? What is a USRA?  :huh:


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#29 Uncle Fred

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 04:06 PM

A flat fish that is floundering....


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#30 B.C.

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 04:50 PM

I lost a lot of my interest in USRA when I-15 went away from scratchbuilt frames and basic C-can magnets. Was a true builders class. Maybe one reason Retro is doing well, it is a builders class.

 

We also at least for regional races only allowed two consecutive classes to be run. We also ran Box 15, I15, 27 and open. we eventually changed it to three classes, but one couldn't be Box 15.

 

I guess I wonder as much as anything why is it remotely attractive for a track to host the Nats. Doesn't look like a revenue producer.

 

Speed is fun – but for my 2 cents – racing against two others and calling it "the Nats" rings hollow. But for those that spent the time and money to travel, you deserve to have the races run as scheduled.

 

Congrats to winners so far and those yet to come this week.


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#31 MSwiss

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 08:44 PM

I asked Tracy to post this here, after he posted it on Facebook.

It's worth a look at the absolute sh*tstorm at Facebook. Here's a LINK.

 

I've been trying to follow that thread, but with so many posts, and Facebook's goofy format, it makes it pretty tough.

 

But I shouldn't complain.

 

Without Facebook, guys wouldn't have a place to swear and call each other names, to help facilitate solutions.

 

Speaking of which, before the internet, how did all the issues in threads like that get resolved?

 

I guess, in all our unresolved misery, we just raced more.


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#32 tonyp

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 05:57 AM

Before the Internet the idiots and troublemakers had no way to make fools of themselves and just had to show up and race under the current set of rules.


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#33 Dan Ebert

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 09:02 AM

Economics, look at the prices for any Cobalt class in WIngs.   can buy 20 plus motors to race Retro for the cost of one Cobalt 12 motor. Anyone that has raced wings knows that you will never walk into a major race these days with only a couple motors in your box. The plain and simple fact is most racers these days are not going to spend 500 dollars on one car. Or over 3,000 dollars on a minimal race motor program for just one class. 

 

I will never go back to Wing racing at that level again.As much as I loved racing Group 27 back in the day. The expense has become just too much. Next time you are at any Retro race ask the guys that raced Wings why they don't any more. I am sure you will get the same response.  

 

(SIdenote: When I did race wings, the constant rule changes to motors would obsolete any motor program that I did have built up. 15a: the change to strap type motors in the early '90s. G27: the change to multi-mag set-ups. I just couldn't justify dumping money into that type of racing any more.)


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#34 Phil Hackett

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 09:57 AM

Just a quick post regarding the multitude of classes in the USRA:
 
They were started because there was a group of "racers" who demanded having an "amatuer" class because they "couldn't" compete with the fast guys. Of course, the USRA went completely overboard and made everything but G7 Pro/Am classes.
 
Where are those people now? The Nats are an OPEN event. Come and race against whoever shows up. The people who demanded the Pro/Am classes are no longer involved but the structure is still here. It's time to get back to basics, if it's possible... G7/G27. That's it. Simple.
 
The whole idea is the same as "Trophies for everyone! No one loses!"
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#35 Uncle Fred

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 11:32 AM

I have been saying for years there is are a number of classes that performance wise overlap and could be eliminated, C12 and I15 come to mind. But the people who race those classes seem to not care if there are only four people in the race and a whole day is devoted to running Pro/Am divisions. 

They should run G7, OMO G27L, and some sort Box Stock class.
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#36 Arne Saknussem

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 12:30 PM

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#37 Cheater

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 12:32 PM

What do you mean, "Just for a moment"?

Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#38 Half Fast

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 12:38 PM

I hate to keep piling on but:
 
Only 6 Geezers left their walkers behind to race today. :)
 
Cheers,
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Bill Botjer

Faster then, wiser now


#39 B.C.

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 02:33 PM

I would imagine they were glad that a half/whole day was scheduled to cram all that racing in by the overflow Geezer class.
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Brian C. Bays

#40 Phil Hackett

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 08:59 PM

Ya know... I consider Sonic Products to be a fairly "involved" manufacturer in this industry and I just discovered the Nats are happening NOW... Uhm... Is it my job to seek out when major races are being held? No race donation request. No real publicity. No online excitement.

 

And, PLEEEEEEAAAAAASEE, don't tell me about Facebook, OK? There's plenty of outlets for info.


Click HERE to contact Sonic Products. The messenger feature on my Slotblog account has been disabled.

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#41 Cheater

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 09:46 PM

The USRA has never really been concerned about promotion and publicity... nor with commnication, for that matter. Business as usual...


Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#42 Phil Hackett

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 10:06 PM

I disagree. At one time there was very good communication but that is ancient history. It seems when the internet became mainstream people got lazy.
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Click HERE to contact Sonic Products. The messenger feature on my Slotblog account has been disabled.

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#43 Cheater

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Posted 10 August 2016 - 02:50 AM

You might be right, Phil. I saw a note the other day that the first website went live on the web 25 years ago and do feel like the USRA hasn't made promotion and publicity (not exactly the same as communication) a priority in well over a decade, maybe longer.


Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#44 Zippity

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Posted 10 August 2016 - 03:40 AM

Great to see such magnanimous support for the USRA being displayed here.



#45 Samiam

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Posted 10 August 2016 - 05:00 AM

Kettle black.


Sam Levitch
 
When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything is a nail.
Support your local raceway, or you won't have one.
Slot cars are quad-pods.
Support your "Local Racer."
:laugh2:

#46 gjc2

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Posted 10 August 2016 - 05:34 AM

One thing that turned me off to wing car racing is the glue. I don’t like the idea of having to prep each lane during lane change time.
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George Cappello

#47 tonyp

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Posted 10 August 2016 - 06:02 AM

You sure would hate the full glue days of the '70s when you glued everywhere. LOL.
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#48 Cheater

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Posted 10 August 2016 - 06:58 AM

Great to see such magnanimous support for the USRA being displayed here.


Probably shouldn't have pushed this button, Ron. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and consider this critical post (as so often is the nature of your posts here, as numerous members constantly remind me) is due simply to your ignorance of the facts.

Won't speak for anyone else who has posted in this thread, but if your intention was to suggest I personally haven't supported the USRA, you don't know what you're talking about.

Let's see...

I spent four plus days in the race director's stand at the 1990 Nats helping to run that event, to the tune of 20-plus hours a day. Don't believe me? Check with Ray Gardner.

I expended over five hundred hours (over a hundred hours the first year) producing the PDF used to print the USRA rulebook for 10 of 11 years. Don't believe me? Check with Roy Hood, Chris Radisich, Milton Gamble, Greg Gilbert, and maybe a couple of others I can't recall.

I was asked to be on the USRA Ethics committee for at least one year (and maybe two) by one of your fellow New Zealanders only to have the deliberations of that body ultimately ignored because it was "unelected."

I've attended at least three Div 2 Nats as a racer and at one of them was the very last person to leave the facility (other the owners), having stayed to sweep the massive floor to clean up the incredible mess left by the slovenly racers. Don't believe me? Check with Ed or Mary Beard in SC.

When no one else was willing to do so, I personally tabulated the USRA online votes for two years. Don't believe me? Ask Paul Kassens.

Slotblog has worked to help promote the USRA over the years only to have a recent agenda-driven president decide to utilize other less-viewed venues to communicate less effectively with the membership.

I was a dues-paying USRA member, even when I didn't race at a Nats, for (I think) 18 years. How many years have you paid dues to be a member of the USRA, Ron?

Darn near every year a couple of usually unwilling people get shanghaied into standing for the position of USRA president and in almost every case the person elected either does nothing (one year when I was producing the rulebook, I received absolutely zero communications from the sitting pres the entire year, in spite of numerous emails to him) or pursues their personal agenda regardless of the feelings of the overall membership.

What have you personally done to support the USRA, Ron?

So put a cork in it, Ron, especially when you largely don't have a clue what you're talking about, OK? People in glass houses, you know...
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Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#49 Samiam

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Posted 10 August 2016 - 07:23 AM


Sam Levitch
 
When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything is a nail.
Support your local raceway, or you won't have one.
Slot cars are quad-pods.
Support your "Local Racer."
:laugh2:

#50 John Streisguth

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Posted 10 August 2016 - 08:59 AM

One thing that turned me off to wing car racing is the glue. I don’t like the idea of having to prep each lane during lane change time.


I remember a Keystone State USRA race, where I came out of the bathroom (down the hall... LOL) and when I came back to the room where the track was, there was a "fog" of petroleum products hanging over the entire room. And I was wondering why my glasses would get coated while standing at the driver's panel!  

That's a big part of why I switched to racing HO cars.
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"Whatever..."





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