Jump to content




Photo

Hand-out motors at IRRA® Premier events discussion


  • Please log in to reply
82 replies to this topic

#1 Tom Thumb Hobbies

Tom Thumb Hobbies

    Posting Leader

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,023 posts
  • Joined: 16-October 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Planet Earth

Posted 17 August 2016 - 12:39 PM

I've been considering expanding hand-outs to other classes. There are both pluses and minuses. Maybe a separate thread would be best and I will definitely follow along to see the racers opinions.

And all along I've been waiting on you to "pull the trigger". LOL.

[This thread was split from one in the Sano forum at Mike McMasters' request.]


Mike McMasters
TTlogo300.jpg
460 Wilson Rd
Columbus, OH 43204
(614) 274-5150
Home of the ORIGINAL American blue King





#2 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,966 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 17 August 2016 - 01:53 PM

"Both pluses and minuses"?

You waver more than I do.

Anyway, you could get away with it easier than I could.

I can't get away with running out of baked spaghetti. LOL.


Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)

Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder (pointless era - LOL)
 
Chicagoland Raceway
17B West Ogden Ave
Westmont, IL 60559
(708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516. Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#3 Tom Thumb Hobbies

Tom Thumb Hobbies

    Posting Leader

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,023 posts
  • Joined: 16-October 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Planet Earth

Posted 17 August 2016 - 03:29 PM

Not wavering. Plus is that the playing field "may be" more level. At least it would help quench the motor cheating rumors.

 

Minuses.... first and foremost is the logistics of getting 55+ racers set up with hand-outs on each of three days, making sure there is enough time to at least start a break-in process, and then have track practice with your hand-out motor. That is without starting racing in mid-afternoon. Then of course there is the extra cost to the racer. Unless we impound motors overnight to allow them to be used in another class. But that would require securely impounding them which is another can of worms...


  • Ramcatlarry and Tim Neja like this

Mike McMasters
TTlogo300.jpg
460 Wilson Rd
Columbus, OH 43204
(614) 274-5150
Home of the ORIGINAL American blue King


#4 brnursebmt

brnursebmt

    Race Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 596 posts
  • Joined: 17-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Glencoe, AL

Posted 18 August 2016 - 07:25 AM

And what about hand-out tires, too? That ground has already been broken and it went very well.


  • Cheater and Rick Crutchfield like this
Bobby Robinson RN

"Nobody rides for free." - Jackson Browne, 1980

#5 Wizard16

Wizard16

    On The Lead Lap

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 230 posts
  • Joined: 10-May 14
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Houston, TX

Posted 18 August 2016 - 09:21 AM

Mike,

 

From my admittedly brief experience hand-outs control the odds of someone finding a rocket and then keeping it for the big races. That's not to say someone won't find one it just lowers the odds IMO. Impounding, etc,. can be a problem I suppose.


Diana Dyckman

#6 Tom Thumb Hobbies

Tom Thumb Hobbies

    Posting Leader

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,023 posts
  • Joined: 16-October 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Planet Earth

Posted 18 August 2016 - 10:02 AM

Totally agree. But hand-outs create other issues as well. They definitely lengthen the day. And they definitely increase the cost to enter. I'm not ruling it out... just trying to cover all bases before I decide between all hand-outs or not.


Mike McMasters
TTlogo300.jpg
460 Wilson Rd
Columbus, OH 43204
(614) 274-5150
Home of the ORIGINAL American blue King


#7 willy wonka

willy wonka

    Race Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 526 posts
  • Joined: 18-January 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NE OH

Posted 18 August 2016 - 12:23 PM

I like it the way it is now. Hand-out Coupe. Can-Am and F1 are the racers' own motor. Considering the large turnouts at premier events both time and money are some times critical factors into one's decision to attend. As the premier events are held yearly I would like to know I've put the best motor I can get in my car.


  • Noose and gfox like this
William Custer
To finish First you must first Finish

#8 Matt Sheldon

Matt Sheldon

    Duffy HMI Executive

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,581 posts
  • Joined: 19-January 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Platteville, CO

Posted 18 August 2016 - 12:56 PM

Will get the schedule up soon.

It will be the same as last year, but we will move F1 Flat, to after the two GTC Coupe races.

In the meantime, while over at Chuck Gambo's, working on some top secret stuff, he showed me a pic he took at Sano II.

It's a good one.

attachicon.gif20160816_205753-1.jpg

 

Crazy good picture! Ray and Sano Dave, and all you other fellas looking so young. [Referencing the original thread HERE.]

 

While it doesn't really matter to me either way and I may have different feelings if I was an A Mainer like Willy,

 

I like the idea of hand-outs. It seems my best motors always have come from a hand-out program. I received two very good ones at the 2015 R4 and incredible ones from the 2015 Sano!


  • Half Fast likes this

Matt Sheldon

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


#9 kvanpelt

kvanpelt

    Race Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 856 posts
  • Joined: 29-January 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:IL

Posted 19 August 2016 - 01:34 PM

Yes, with my limited experience, I would prefer the hand-out route.

 

Whether it was at the Sanos or the Mid-America ROC races, hand-outs have always been good to me. I would rather go that route than ending up with a large amount of motors looking for that special one.

 

If the car is good and the driveline is efficient and free, most motors will keep you in the hunt with hand-outs. Running your own motors is another story!

 

I think if guys really looked at the costs, hand-outs are cheaper in the long run.

 

Either way, health permitting, I will be there!!!


  • Rick, Howie Ursaner, Half Fast and 4 others like this

Kevin VanPelt
 
Slotblog subscriber and proud of it!  :good: 


#10 Rick

Rick

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Partial Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,843 posts
  • Joined: 17-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:PA

Posted 19 August 2016 - 04:27 PM

I like the concept of hand out motors. Probably right, over the long haul, cheaper too............


  • Wizard Of Iz, kvanpelt, Rick Crutchfield and 2 others like this
Rick Bennardo
"Professional Tinkerer"
scrgeo@comcast.net
R-Geo Products
LIKE my Facebook page for updates, new releases, and sales: Rgeo Slots...
 
Lead! The easy equalizer...

Posted Image

#11 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,966 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 19 August 2016 - 05:44 PM

I like it the way it is now. Handout coupe.can am and f1 are the racers own motor. Considering the large turnouts at premiere events both time and money are some times critical factors into ones decision to attend. Being the premiere events are held yearly I would like to know I've put the best motor I can get in my car.

Seems like the further one travels, the less excited guys are about handouts across the board.

Also, as mentioned, it's seems excessive to make guys buy motors for every race, but it also seems like too much work to impound them overnight.

When I let the Ams use the same handouts, in all 3 days, at Sano 7(?), I can't honestly remember if I impounded them.

Regardless, on that subject, unless you frisk someone, going in and out of raceway, midday, or even just going into the washroom, how can you stop someone from tampering with the motor, if they are determined.

Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)

Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder (pointless era - LOL)
 
Chicagoland Raceway
17B West Ogden Ave
Westmont, IL 60559
(708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516. Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#12 glueside

glueside

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 233 posts
  • Joined: 07-February 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:IA

Posted 20 August 2016 - 06:31 AM

Regardless, on that subject, unless you frisk someone, going in and out of raceway, midday, or even just going into the washroom, how can you stop someone from tampering with the motor, if they are determined.

 

We could have those people sit between KVP, Bernie, and Mike all weekend.


  • Bernie likes this

Jeff Strause

Owner, Strause's Performance Racing (SPR)

 

Burlington Iowa Kiwanis - President Elect

USSCA 2016 4" NASCAR Champion

USSCA 2016 4 1/2" NASCAR Champion

USSCA 2016 Retro Can-Am Champion

 


#13 Rick

Rick

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Partial Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,843 posts
  • Joined: 17-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:PA

Posted 23 August 2016 - 11:47 AM

Bump, I think this got lost in the shuffle?


  • Cheater likes this
Rick Bennardo
"Professional Tinkerer"
scrgeo@comcast.net
R-Geo Products
LIKE my Facebook page for updates, new releases, and sales: Rgeo Slots...
 
Lead! The easy equalizer...

Posted Image

#14 Noose

Noose

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,547 posts
  • Joined: 08-November 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denville, NJ

Posted 23 August 2016 - 12:01 PM

I agree with Willy. I have plenty of motors and all through our series last season and RP I used only a few. They get better the more I run them so to add cost to the events is a negative for me when I don't need them.
  • JerseyJohn and gfox like this

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"

"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#15 Half Fast

Half Fast

    Keeper Of Odd Knowledge

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,450 posts
  • Joined: 02-May 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NYC, Long Island

Posted 23 August 2016 - 12:19 PM

My take:
 
1) Hand-outs definitely level the playing field
 
2) They do not increase costs because you have to buy motors anyway and you can use the hand-outs in other non-hand-out races.
 
Cheers,
  • Tim Neja, kvanpelt and Scott Hall like this

Bill Botjer

Faster then, wiser now


#16 Noose

Noose

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,547 posts
  • Joined: 08-November 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denville, NJ

Posted 23 August 2016 - 12:23 PM

Bill,

 

Point 1 OK.  Do not agree with point 2 though. The only motor I buy is the handout one. I buy two at those races.  Sometimes when there are left overs I buy some.

 

Add the cost of travel, hotel, pit passes, etc. it does add costs. 

 

The racing has been super close since we went to Hawk Retros so why increase the cost to the racers then?


Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"

"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#17 Half Fast

Half Fast

    Keeper Of Odd Knowledge

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,450 posts
  • Joined: 02-May 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NYC, Long Island

Posted 23 August 2016 - 12:32 PM

Joe-
 
The fact that you are buying extra motors means you gotta buy them anyway, so no real extra cost. Also at the races they are usually at discount to the "off the wall" price
 
The motors costs are trivial compared to travel and hotel.
 
Cheers,
  • Steve Deiters, Tim Neja and kvanpelt like this

Bill Botjer

Faster then, wiser now


#18 James Grandi

James Grandi

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 448 posts
  • Joined: 31-May 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cranston, RI

Posted 23 August 2016 - 12:33 PM

I like that there is at least 1 class where horsepower is essentially, luck of the draw. It doesn't make a 100% level playing field if I'm honest, because out of 30-40 or more handout motors, there does end up being a few rockets, and indeed a few that are too slow to be competitive, even with a top notch car and driver. That is where the luck part comes in. That's why when the option is to buy 2, we buy 2. Run the best one. I've gotten a couple really good ones, and a couple that were borderline mediocre before. Luck of the draw, I'm ok with that.

With the other classes, I do like having the choice to run whichever motor I choose. I freely admit that I do spend a fair amount of time and some money looking for a couple silver bullets. From there, I can figure out where I'm losing ground to the faster guys and try to change the car setup. If I don't do that, there are few things more frustrating than frantically flinging motors into the car trying to find something that'll pull down the straight at a premier event
James Grandi
obSCEne Chassis
HVR BB Fronts
Bodies by Weaver

"There is no such thing as a race you are destined to lose. You will always have a chance."
 

#19 Steve Deiters

Steve Deiters

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,761 posts
  • Joined: 28-May 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cincinnati, OH

Posted 23 August 2016 - 12:35 PM

I don't know if this is part of the discussion or not, but it in the handout races in the past that I have been to it was a specific class only.  If the switch is to handouts for all classes why not make it a handout motor purchase for all the classes for that weekend.  It helps to minimize costs and certainly facilitates and simplifies the the administration of the racing over the weekend.

 

As far as that one "trick"/"one in a thousand" motor moving from one class win to the next a "one and done rule" could be in effect.....or not.  Myself I wouldn't have a problem with it being reused.


  • Half Fast likes this

#20 Noose

Noose

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,547 posts
  • Joined: 08-November 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denville, NJ

Posted 23 August 2016 - 12:43 PM

Making sure those handouts don't walkout is the problem Steve. Also, as already noted, it is going to make for a much longer day.


Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"

"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#21 Half Fast

Half Fast

    Keeper Of Odd Knowledge

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,450 posts
  • Joined: 02-May 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NYC, Long Island

Posted 23 August 2016 - 12:47 PM

I agree that handouts make for a longer day, but most big races are "all day affairs" anyway.

 

Cheers

 

PS: Steve "one and done" or "won and done" :)


Bill Botjer

Faster then, wiser now


#22 Noose

Noose

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,547 posts
  • Joined: 08-November 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denville, NJ

Posted 23 August 2016 - 12:49 PM

Bill have you seen any real difference in the standings with hand-outs vs. bring your own?  Same guys at the top. So why make it more costly?


  • gfox likes this

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"

"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#23 John Streisguth

John Streisguth

    Johnny VW

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,603 posts
  • Joined: 20-November 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bangor, PA

Posted 23 August 2016 - 01:09 PM

After getting a motor at Retropalooza that was apparently mis-marked for the positive lead (and ended up being a total turd), I'm not in favor of going all hand-outs.  That basically limited me to one of the two motors I purchased.  If it came down to all hand-outs, I would want the option of buying more than just two motors.  Maybe the way to do that would be to pay in advance to "reserve" motors.  

 

I agree with Noose's last statement... I don't see handout anything as a way to level the playing field.  The fast guys are always the fast guys, no matter what you hand them.  


"Whatever..."

#24 Noose

Noose

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,547 posts
  • Joined: 08-November 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denville, NJ

Posted 23 August 2016 - 02:02 PM

I agree with Noose's last statement... I don't see handout anything as a way to level the playing field.  The fast guys are always the fast guys, no matter what you hand them.  

Let's use RetroPalooza as an example Bill.  Your home track.

 

Top 3 in GTC-FK with handouts

Adam Chaya 336.03

Colin Martin 336

Brian Cochrane 335

 

Top GTC-Pro with handouts

Chubby - 351

Tommy Skurka - 348

Edsel - 344

Willy Custer - 343

James Grandi - 342

Adam Chaya - 341

Eric Gehrken - 340

Pat Skegs - 333

 

Then we look at Stock Cars with no handouts and just the top 4

Chubby - 306

Eric Gehrken - 305

James Grandi - 305

Ed Sohl - 304

 

Same way for CanAm and F1.  Top guys at the top.


Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"

"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#25 Tim Neja

Tim Neja

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,334 posts
  • Joined: 11-June 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Orange County

Posted 23 August 2016 - 02:15 PM

Totally agree. But hand-outs create other issues as well. They definitely lengthen the day. And they definitely increase the cost to enter. I'm not ruling it out... just trying to cover all bases before I decide between all hand-outs or not.

We've had handout races in the past---and I'm a BIG PROPONENT of them because it LEVELS THE PLAYING FIELD! :)   I haven't seen the necessity of lengthening the day.  What does happen is people get used to what they need to do to BE prepared to race!  That is water break in for a few minutes--then running break in and then racing. It can all be accomplished in less than an hour so that ALL people will have an EQUAL chance at getting their "missle" ready.  It really does NOT increase the cost of racing because you're going to need a motor anyway--so those that don't care about ultimate horsepower buy one and bolt it in.   

There needs to be a limit of how many you can buy--2-3 would be sufficient to allow for some variability in motors.  But that will be a TRULY LEVEL playing field for all who race.  No one has a hidden missle the've been saving for 3 months for this big race. And it eliminates the DEEP POCKET guys that will buy 20 motors to find one! 

 

It's a good idea--but like all of them--you CAN'T satisfy everyone all the time!!   The only way to see how it will go with your group---is to do it and try to get a consensus if people prefer it or not.  Good luck and good racing!!  


  • brnursebmt likes this
She's real fine, my 409!!!

#26 Noose

Noose

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,547 posts
  • Joined: 08-November 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denville, NJ

Posted 23 August 2016 - 02:19 PM

Tim, did you have handout races with Hawk Retros or just the F7s and TSRs?


Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"

"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#27 Steve Deiters

Steve Deiters

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,761 posts
  • Joined: 28-May 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cincinnati, OH

Posted 23 August 2016 - 02:19 PM

Bill B.

 

"PS: Steve "one and done" or "won and done"  :)"  Correct, but what I was thinking when I wrote that was "one" meaning one race and and done.  So let's make it "won/one and done".



#28 John Streisguth

John Streisguth

    Johnny VW

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,603 posts
  • Joined: 20-November 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bangor, PA

Posted 23 August 2016 - 02:22 PM

Tim:

I understand your position, but have you ever had a hand-outrace with 65 entries?  That's pretty typical of the R4


"Whatever..."

#29 Rick

Rick

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Partial Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,843 posts
  • Joined: 17-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:PA

Posted 23 August 2016 - 02:26 PM

Let's use RetroPalooza as an example Bill.  Your home track.

 

Top 3 in GTC-FK with handouts

Adam Chaya 336.03

Colin Martin 336

Brian Cochrane 335

 

Top GTC-Pro with handouts

Chubby - 351

Tommy Skurka - 348

Edsel - 344

Willy Custer - 343

James Grandi - 342

Adam Chaya - 341

Eric Gehrken - 340

Pat Skegs - 333

 

Then we look at Stock Cars with no handouts and just the top 4

Chubby - 306

Eric Gehrken - 305

James Grandi - 305

Ed Sohl - 304

 

Same way for CanAm and F1.  Top guys at the top.

Then there should be no complaints if each racer is handed just one motor and one motor only? Live or die with your pick...............


  • Frankie Schaffier likes this
Rick Bennardo
"Professional Tinkerer"
scrgeo@comcast.net
R-Geo Products
LIKE my Facebook page for updates, new releases, and sales: Rgeo Slots...
 
Lead! The easy equalizer...

Posted Image

#30 Half Fast

Half Fast

    Keeper Of Odd Knowledge

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,450 posts
  • Joined: 02-May 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NYC, Long Island

Posted 23 August 2016 - 02:27 PM

Let's use RetroPalooza as an example Bill.  Your home track.

 

Top 3 in GTC-FK with handouts

Adam Chaya 336.03

Colin Martin 336

Brian Cochrane 335

 

 

Oh yeah? Bill Botjer 9th overall in that 27 man race. Well better than I usually finish against a lot of guys who are ahead of me in non handout races.

 

Why? Because the motor was taken out of the equation.

 

Sure the top guys were ahead, because of car set up, but the field was leveled at least a bit.

 

So there :)


  • Samiam likes this

Bill Botjer

Faster then, wiser now


#31 Noose

Noose

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,547 posts
  • Joined: 08-November 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denville, NJ

Posted 23 August 2016 - 02:30 PM

Then there should be no complaints if each racer is handed just one motor and one motor only? Live or die with your pick...............

Sorry, spend a lot of money to go and leave it to luck.  Hmm..no not for me. 


  • Ralph Thorne, gfox and Jimmy Williams like this

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"

"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#32 Tim Neja

Tim Neja

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,334 posts
  • Joined: 11-June 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Orange County

Posted 23 August 2016 - 02:40 PM

NO--we have not done handouts with Retro Hawks -- we did handouts with 50+ entries--but it's been a while.  

The motor break-in time for RH's is now becoming a known qty.  It does take a little longer--a few minutes--but water break in solves that problem.  No--you can't take the time to put 350 laps on it.  But the real deal is to get a good brush track across the comm--then you've got as good a motor as your going to get.  Maybe 50 laps of break in and your done.  

 

But I AGREE--- it will add some time simply because you have to break in and test a couple of motors that normally would be already done.  And yes--the BEST racers will find a way to get to the top of the mains---but it DOES eliminate the CHEATERS!! That's the only thing handouts can accomplish and is all that P I A worth it to eliminate a small advantage to the FEW that do  attempt to cheat!  


She's real fine, my 409!!!

#33 Wizard16

Wizard16

    On The Lead Lap

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 230 posts
  • Joined: 10-May 14
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Houston, TX

Posted 23 August 2016 - 03:10 PM

So what you're saying is everyone buy a BUNCH of motors to find the rocket(s). That's not more expensive? Some of the Pit Boxes at the races I've attended look like JK distributors. I think the expense argument is baloney. The wanting to win and all the work to find the motors, test the chassis (who builds their own for the premier events?) and most importantly trigger time is what is driving the argument. I get it.  Every type of racing is identical. The harder you work the faster you'll go.  Why waste a weekend for a driver with a mediocre motor from a handout. The top drivers want to be on a level playing field with each other - understandable. And a handout rocket is not going to make me an A main driver. Handouts won't happen so the top drivers can chill. It is not a topic that will impact participation. People attending is what should drive the rules. IRRA has grown with the existing rules. I would like handouts but I'm being a realist. Want to really get people's attention - ya gotta build your own chassis - no kits. Maybe the top drivers would still be on top - maybe not. Besides - it's cheaper to build one than it is to buy one. There's that darn expense argument again. :sun_bespectacled:


  • Tim Neja likes this
Diana Dyckman

#34 Brinkley47

Brinkley47

    A winner is a loser who gave it one more try

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 547 posts
  • Joined: 18-August 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Murfreesboro, TN

Posted 23 August 2016 - 05:07 PM

Handouts for only coupe. Leave the rest as is. I have motors that have been sitting idle waiting on the R4. Either way I am in, but I prefer handouts to coupe only. KISS (keep it super simple) ;)
  • tonyp likes this
Will Brinkley
willbrinkley@gmail.com

#35 JerseyJohn

JerseyJohn

    Posting Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,740 posts
  • Joined: 05-September 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Northern NJ

Posted 23 August 2016 - 05:24 PM

Handouts for only coupe. Leave the rest as is. I have motors that have been sitting idle waiting on the R4. Either way I am in, but I prefer handouts to coupe only. KISS (keep it super simple) ;)

I agree with Wil......Mikey Blue....leave it the F^&K alone please


Logo copy.jpg
John Molnar
"Certified Newark Wise Guy since 1984" (retired)
"Certified Tony P Chassis God since 2007"
" Internationally Know Slot Car Racing Celebrity "
https://www.facebook...yjohncreations/
Email me
 


#36 Matt Sheldon

Matt Sheldon

    Duffy HMI Executive

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,581 posts
  • Joined: 19-January 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Platteville, CO

Posted 23 August 2016 - 05:57 PM

Retro Hawk #1!!!!!!!!

 

ric flair woo.jpg


  • kvanpelt likes this

Matt Sheldon

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


#37 Rick

Rick

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Partial Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,843 posts
  • Joined: 17-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:PA

Posted 23 August 2016 - 05:59 PM

Now seriously, I don't care how it is done or not done. I was just stirring the pot. I find it humorous how racers justify their opinion. What does one do when their bullet saved motor throws a wind in practice or loses brakes? Nothing different than a hand out race, it is fully left to luck and nothing more.......


Rick Bennardo
"Professional Tinkerer"
scrgeo@comcast.net
R-Geo Products
LIKE my Facebook page for updates, new releases, and sales: Rgeo Slots...
 
Lead! The easy equalizer...

Posted Image

#38 Tom Thumb Hobbies

Tom Thumb Hobbies

    Posting Leader

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,023 posts
  • Joined: 16-October 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Planet Earth

Posted 23 August 2016 - 06:05 PM

All good points for both sides. Motors seem to be at the heart of most of the complaining. The RH has a done a good job with stopping a good amount of the arguing and finger pointing. Now we have the stories of the "Silver Bullet" motors and racers supposedly spending small fortunes looking for one. Handouts would help with that. But....sometimes the cure is worse than the disease. 

 

Thanks for all the civil conversation here. Many good and thoughtful opinions and ideas.Exactly what I was looking for. I think I will give it a couple more days then make my decision. Then you can praise me or blame me.  


  • brnursebmt, Wizard Of Iz, tonyp and 3 others like this

Mike McMasters
TTlogo300.jpg
460 Wilson Rd
Columbus, OH 43204
(614) 274-5150
Home of the ORIGINAL American blue King


#39 Noose

Noose

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,547 posts
  • Joined: 08-November 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denville, NJ

Posted 23 August 2016 - 06:23 PM

Well all those buying lots of motors are supporting the raceways, hobby, and manufacturers.
  • tonyp, Samiam and gfox like this

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"

"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#40 Tim Neja

Tim Neja

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,334 posts
  • Joined: 11-June 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Orange County

Posted 23 August 2016 - 07:22 PM

Well all those buying lots of motors are supporting the raceways, hobby, and manufacturers.

By killing off the participants that refuse to race against those deep pockets?  I think not! :)  That's an argument I've never liked!! Then the raceway lose's the parts/tires/bodies/ etc etc etc of all those racers!! 


  • Rick likes this
She's real fine, my 409!!!

#41 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,966 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 23 August 2016 - 07:32 PM

Tim,

What's the SCRRA's reason for not doing handouts at all, anymore?


Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)

Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder (pointless era - LOL)
 
Chicagoland Raceway
17B West Ogden Ave
Westmont, IL 60559
(708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516. Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#42 RodneyZ

RodneyZ

    Mid-Pack Racer

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPip
  • 110 posts
  • Joined: 15-June 14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Akron, IN

Posted 23 August 2016 - 08:16 PM

I like the hand out do it one more class I also think it would be a pain in all classes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Rodney Ziemek

#43 Mike Patterson

Mike Patterson

    Village Luddite™

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,823 posts
  • Joined: 14-October 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Zanesville, OH

Posted 23 August 2016 - 09:33 PM

After day one, let everyone keep their motor. On day 2, everybody turns their motor in before practice, and the racers redraw motors. Same on day 3.

 

As far as motor break-in, let the racer decide whether to break in the motor on a power supply, or on the track during practice.

 

If the smoke gets out during a race, that racer is done for the day, and a new motor wil be inserted into the draw for the following day.

 

At the end of the event, return each racer's original motor if still running. Otherwise, the racer will receive the substitute motor.

 

And remember, this is coming from someone who doesn't race anymore, although not by choice.


We all need to believe in something. I believe I'll have another beer.


#44 slotcarone

slotcarone

    Posting Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,205 posts
  • Joined: 23-January 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dutchess County, NY

Posted 23 August 2016 - 10:15 PM

OK here's my 2 cents!! I have not traveled to many of the premiere events but if I did I would rather know I am using my own  known good motors. Too much travel and hotel etc. expense to not be competitive because of a dud hand out motor. :)


  • tonyp and gfox like this

Mike Katz

Scratchbuilts forever!!


#45 Jason Holmes

Jason Holmes

    Race Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 500 posts
  • Joined: 07-March 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Harbor CIty, CA

Posted 23 August 2016 - 10:16 PM

Mike

 

I think they think it's a Hassle or they don't get the great Price on motor's that they did with TSR's 

 

jason



#46 Jason Holmes

Jason Holmes

    Race Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 500 posts
  • Joined: 07-March 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Harbor CIty, CA

Posted 23 August 2016 - 10:21 PM

For Me Hand-Outs would be okay if I could use any Motor I had bought for racing that weekend in any of the races all marked and recorded under my name this would be more work for the track not ME 

 

Jason


  • Matt Sheldon likes this

#47 Bryan Warmack

Bryan Warmack

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,130 posts
  • Joined: 17-July 07
  • Gender:Male

Posted 23 August 2016 - 10:24 PM

Tim,

What's the SCRRA's reason for not doing handouts at all, anymore?

  The guy responsible for marking all the motors quit!  :laugh2:

  Seriously, the SCRRA is considering a handout motor race next year in a major event.


  • MSwiss, S.O. Watt, Tim Neja and 1 other like this

#48 Noose

Noose

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,547 posts
  • Joined: 08-November 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denville, NJ

Posted 24 August 2016 - 05:58 AM

We all know heat does not do these motors well at all and not everyone screws them in.  Some do solder them in.  Then the soldering of the lead wires on is a tricky task to not screw anything up.  That said, having to take a motor in and out of a car to turn it in to impound overnight and the logistics of that can be a nightmare. 


  • NSwanberg likes this

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"

"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#49 John Streisguth

John Streisguth

    Johnny VW

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,603 posts
  • Joined: 20-November 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bangor, PA

Posted 24 August 2016 - 06:23 AM

OK here's my 2 cents!! I have not traveled to many of the premiere events but if I did I would rather know I am using my own  known good motors. Too much travel and hotel etc. expense to not be competitive because of a dud hand out motor. :)

Exactly my feelings, especially after getting a real POS at Retropalooza. If people are worrying about someone buying $200 worth of motors, they seriously need to take a look at what other expenses they have for slot racing.  And I have found some motors are fast on certain tracks but may be slower on other tracks, so unless you only race on one track all the time, they most likely will get used at some point. On some tracks high amp motors are faster, on some tracks low amp motors are faster.  And a fast one when practicing by yourself can be slow during the race because of the effect of 7 other cars running (I have seen this last one first-hand)


  • Noose, tonyp and Samiam like this
"Whatever..."

#50 Howie Ursaner

Howie Ursaner

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,250 posts
  • Joined: 01-March 07
  • Gender:Male

Posted 24 August 2016 - 10:31 AM

I have about 20  RH motors sitting here. I have no idea how they will run at each track. I have to put all 20 in cars to see how they run wherever it is. It is a big pain in the *** but i do it. I don't care if its handouts or not but it is a lot easier and cheaper with handouts and it does take the rogue super motors out of the equation that people are saving for big races. 


  • brnursebmt, Steve Deiters, Tim Neja and 2 others like this
Howie Ursaner





Electric Dreams Online Shop