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Hand-out motors at IRRA® Premier events discussion


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#26 Noose

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 02:19 PM

Tim, did you have handout races with Hawk Retros or just the F7s and TSRs?


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#27 Steve Deiters

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 02:19 PM

Bill B.

 

"PS: Steve "one and done" or "won and done"  :)"  Correct, but what I was thinking when I wrote that was "one" meaning one race and and done.  So let's make it "won/one and done".



#28 John Streisguth

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 02:22 PM

Tim:

I understand your position, but have you ever had a hand-outrace with 65 entries?  That's pretty typical of the R4


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#29 Rick

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 02:26 PM

Let's use RetroPalooza as an example Bill.  Your home track.

 

Top 3 in GTC-FK with handouts

Adam Chaya 336.03

Colin Martin 336

Brian Cochrane 335

 

Top GTC-Pro with handouts

Chubby - 351

Tommy Skurka - 348

Edsel - 344

Willy Custer - 343

James Grandi - 342

Adam Chaya - 341

Eric Gehrken - 340

Pat Skegs - 333

 

Then we look at Stock Cars with no handouts and just the top 4

Chubby - 306

Eric Gehrken - 305

James Grandi - 305

Ed Sohl - 304

 

Same way for CanAm and F1.  Top guys at the top.

Then there should be no complaints if each racer is handed just one motor and one motor only? Live or die with your pick...............


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#30 Half Fast

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 02:27 PM

Let's use RetroPalooza as an example Bill.  Your home track.

 

Top 3 in GTC-FK with handouts

Adam Chaya 336.03

Colin Martin 336

Brian Cochrane 335

 

 

Oh yeah? Bill Botjer 9th overall in that 27 man race. Well better than I usually finish against a lot of guys who are ahead of me in non handout races.

 

Why? Because the motor was taken out of the equation.

 

Sure the top guys were ahead, because of car set up, but the field was leveled at least a bit.

 

So there :)


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#31 Noose

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 02:30 PM

Then there should be no complaints if each racer is handed just one motor and one motor only? Live or die with your pick...............

Sorry, spend a lot of money to go and leave it to luck.  Hmm..no not for me. 


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#32 Tim Neja

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 02:40 PM

NO--we have not done handouts with Retro Hawks -- we did handouts with 50+ entries--but it's been a while.  

The motor break-in time for RH's is now becoming a known qty.  It does take a little longer--a few minutes--but water break in solves that problem.  No--you can't take the time to put 350 laps on it.  But the real deal is to get a good brush track across the comm--then you've got as good a motor as your going to get.  Maybe 50 laps of break in and your done.  

 

But I AGREE--- it will add some time simply because you have to break in and test a couple of motors that normally would be already done.  And yes--the BEST racers will find a way to get to the top of the mains---but it DOES eliminate the CHEATERS!! That's the only thing handouts can accomplish and is all that P I A worth it to eliminate a small advantage to the FEW that do  attempt to cheat!  


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#33 Wizard16

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 03:10 PM

So what you're saying is everyone buy a BUNCH of motors to find the rocket(s). That's not more expensive? Some of the Pit Boxes at the races I've attended look like JK distributors. I think the expense argument is baloney. The wanting to win and all the work to find the motors, test the chassis (who builds their own for the premier events?) and most importantly trigger time is what is driving the argument. I get it.  Every type of racing is identical. The harder you work the faster you'll go.  Why waste a weekend for a driver with a mediocre motor from a handout. The top drivers want to be on a level playing field with each other - understandable. And a handout rocket is not going to make me an A main driver. Handouts won't happen so the top drivers can chill. It is not a topic that will impact participation. People attending is what should drive the rules. IRRA has grown with the existing rules. I would like handouts but I'm being a realist. Want to really get people's attention - ya gotta build your own chassis - no kits. Maybe the top drivers would still be on top - maybe not. Besides - it's cheaper to build one than it is to buy one. There's that darn expense argument again. :sun_bespectacled:


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#34 Brinkley47

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 05:07 PM

Handouts for only coupe. Leave the rest as is. I have motors that have been sitting idle waiting on the R4. Either way I am in, but I prefer handouts to coupe only. KISS (keep it super simple) ;)
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#35 JerseyJohn

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 05:24 PM

Handouts for only coupe. Leave the rest as is. I have motors that have been sitting idle waiting on the R4. Either way I am in, but I prefer handouts to coupe only. KISS (keep it super simple) ;)

I agree with Wil......Mikey Blue....leave it the F^&K alone please


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#36 Matt Sheldon

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 05:57 PM

Retro Hawk #1!!!!!!!!

 

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#37 Rick

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 05:59 PM

Now seriously, I don't care how it is done or not done. I was just stirring the pot. I find it humorous how racers justify their opinion. What does one do when their bullet saved motor throws a wind in practice or loses brakes? Nothing different than a hand out race, it is fully left to luck and nothing more.......


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#38 Tom Thumb Hobbies

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 06:05 PM

All good points for both sides. Motors seem to be at the heart of most of the complaining. The RH has a done a good job with stopping a good amount of the arguing and finger pointing. Now we have the stories of the "Silver Bullet" motors and racers supposedly spending small fortunes looking for one. Handouts would help with that. But....sometimes the cure is worse than the disease. 

 

Thanks for all the civil conversation here. Many good and thoughtful opinions and ideas.Exactly what I was looking for. I think I will give it a couple more days then make my decision. Then you can praise me or blame me.  


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#39 Noose

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 06:23 PM

Well all those buying lots of motors are supporting the raceways, hobby, and manufacturers.
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The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#40 Tim Neja

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 07:22 PM

Well all those buying lots of motors are supporting the raceways, hobby, and manufacturers.

By killing off the participants that refuse to race against those deep pockets?  I think not! :)  That's an argument I've never liked!! Then the raceway lose's the parts/tires/bodies/ etc etc etc of all those racers!! 


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#41 MSwiss

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 07:32 PM

Tim,

What's the SCRRA's reason for not doing handouts at all, anymore?


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#42 RodneyZ

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 08:16 PM

I like the hand out do it one more class I also think it would be a pain in all classes.


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#43 Mike Patterson

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 09:33 PM

After day one, let everyone keep their motor. On day 2, everybody turns their motor in before practice, and the racers redraw motors. Same on day 3.

 

As far as motor break-in, let the racer decide whether to break in the motor on a power supply, or on the track during practice.

 

If the smoke gets out during a race, that racer is done for the day, and a new motor wil be inserted into the draw for the following day.

 

At the end of the event, return each racer's original motor if still running. Otherwise, the racer will receive the substitute motor.

 

And remember, this is coming from someone who doesn't race anymore, although not by choice.


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#44 slotcarone

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 10:15 PM

OK here's my 2 cents!! I have not traveled to many of the premiere events but if I did I would rather know I am using my own  known good motors. Too much travel and hotel etc. expense to not be competitive because of a dud hand out motor. :)


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#45 Jason Holmes

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 10:16 PM

Mike

 

I think they think it's a Hassle or they don't get the great Price on motor's that they did with TSR's 

 

jason



#46 Jason Holmes

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 10:21 PM

For Me Hand-Outs would be okay if I could use any Motor I had bought for racing that weekend in any of the races all marked and recorded under my name this would be more work for the track not ME 

 

Jason


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#47 Bryan Warmack

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 10:24 PM

Tim,

What's the SCRRA's reason for not doing handouts at all, anymore?

  The guy responsible for marking all the motors quit!  :laugh2:

  Seriously, the SCRRA is considering a handout motor race next year in a major event.


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#48 Noose

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 05:58 AM

We all know heat does not do these motors well at all and not everyone screws them in.  Some do solder them in.  Then the soldering of the lead wires on is a tricky task to not screw anything up.  That said, having to take a motor in and out of a car to turn it in to impound overnight and the logistics of that can be a nightmare. 


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#49 John Streisguth

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 06:23 AM

OK here's my 2 cents!! I have not traveled to many of the premiere events but if I did I would rather know I am using my own  known good motors. Too much travel and hotel etc. expense to not be competitive because of a dud hand out motor. :)

Exactly my feelings, especially after getting a real POS at Retropalooza. If people are worrying about someone buying $200 worth of motors, they seriously need to take a look at what other expenses they have for slot racing.  And I have found some motors are fast on certain tracks but may be slower on other tracks, so unless you only race on one track all the time, they most likely will get used at some point. On some tracks high amp motors are faster, on some tracks low amp motors are faster.  And a fast one when practicing by yourself can be slow during the race because of the effect of 7 other cars running (I have seen this last one first-hand)


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#50 Howie Ursaner

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 10:31 AM

I have about 20  RH motors sitting here. I have no idea how they will run at each track. I have to put all 20 in cars to see how they run wherever it is. It is a big pain in the *** but i do it. I don't care if its handouts or not but it is a lot easier and cheaper with handouts and it does take the rogue super motors out of the equation that people are saving for big races. 


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