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Hand-out motors at IRRA® Premier events discussion


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#51 MSwiss

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 11:52 AM

 the rogue super motors

How,

Do you think the rogue super motors are sinister?

 

I guess what I mean is do think they are twirling their handlebar mustaches as they are knocking the bank down?


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#52 tonyp

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 02:04 PM

Mike I'll let you know if I ever get one.


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#53 jimht

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 02:23 PM

Further thread deterioration...

 

Let everyone run their own motors and require a useless spec tire: Koford WXX, for instance.

Odds are slower motors will be for the best.

 

Anyway, why bother with handing out a spec motor, when the spec motor is serving its purpose just fine?

It's not as if there's been much?...any?...cheating. Besides, trying to stop those with spare change from using  it to get an advantage by buying upmteen motors does not stop them from spending on something else that will give them an advantage.

 

Equipment limits taken to their ultimate extreme only serve to fix it so that the drivers dominate....and the tinkerers all bail because they have nothing to tinker with.


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#54 Tim Neja

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 02:28 PM

Howie is right about it being cheaper!! I know of several guys racing in SoCal that buy 30 to 40 motors and go through them to find the best 2-3.  And if that's not good then they'll do it again!  Hand outs in the long run are the most FAIR way to race--but if it's too big a hassle I know some won't want to do it.  Once it's being done as a routine, it will get much faster and easier because like anything, people will learn what is needed to prepare with the minimum of fuss. Some like Howie---run a LOT of motors through their cars to find that optimum power---and THAT is a lot of time spent also!!

  It's just another way to race to try to level the playing field for all who race. And not matter what---we'll NEVER agree %100 on ANYTHING!!!  :dash2:  :laugh2:


She's real fine, my 409!!!

#55 jimht

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 03:08 PM

Cheaper, yes, but are the guys that can afford to buy 30-40 motors complaining or just taking advantage of what they can do to get an advantage?

 

FAIR sometimes means lowering everyone to the same level, not promoting excellence.

Leveling the playing field is not what limitations do...limitations either lower costs or control speed or both.

 

All things being equal, everyone has an opportunity to win...it's just the definition of "all things" that's tricky.

If the best driver with the most money and the best equipment doesn't win, does that mean the playing field is fair or unfair?


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Jim Honeycutt

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#56 Howie Ursaner

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 03:27 PM

How,

Do you think the rogue super motors are siniste

I guess what I mean is do think they are twirling their handlebar mustaches as they are knocking the bank down

Those evil motors are just itching to cause trouble laughing their way down the straight. lol  I have seriously spent a ton of money and time trying to find a few good motors for speedway tracks. what a pain. but at least i do come up with one or two. Ask Haruki or the guys at BPR about how many RH motors they break in to find one. There are guys that have offered $100 for a good Hawk at a race i was at.  Last year at the Sano i bought 1 handout motor and won the coupe pro race.  I still can't believe how painless that was.It is what it is and i like it all. 


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#57 Tim Neja

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 03:38 PM

I think ALL RACING--including full size have limitations on spending!! THAT'S WHY THEY HAVE RULES!! So it's NOT unlimited---otherwise you would NOT be able to get a full filed in any racing. :)

 

Take a look at what happened to our wing racing! It's the classic example of allowing unlimited spending to RUIN a hobby!! It's ridiculous to allow it to occur to the detriment of everyone racing!


She's real fine, my 409!!!

#58 Noose

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 04:15 PM

Tim, was it spending or the pricing? Big difference.

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#59 MSwiss

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 04:32 PM

I think ALL RACING--including full size have limitations on spending!! THAT'S WHY THEY HAVE RULES!! So it's NOT unlimited---otherwise you would NOT be able to get a full filed in any racing. :)

 

Take a look at what happened to our wing racing! It's the classic example of allowing unlimited spending to RUIN a hobby!! It's ridiculous to allow it to occur to the detriment of everyone racing!

Even Nascar, with very regulated rules, has big and small budget teams.

 

Hard to legislate guys, with deep pockets, from using them to their advantage.

 

The only way, in slots, is to IROC race or run on the flat track.

 

I've been told the BP flat track isn't very difficult (compared to most), but more seem to prefer racing on the King.

 

Quite a few guys like to go fast, and don't mind if it's somewhat easier.

 

And to ex-wing racers, buying 30-$13 motors is like "So what?"


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#60 smokie

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 04:45 PM

Sorry, spend a lot of money to go and leave it to luck.  Hmm..no not for me

 

so are you talking about not racing because you you can't "prep" your motors before traveling to to a different event somewhere away form your local track, or am I missing something here.???


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#61 Noose

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 05:25 PM

My prep is breaking them in by running them. I mAintain my "fleet" of cars and always have one or two in practice cars to get them ready.

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#62 jimht

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 05:34 PM

Seems, as usual, that the racers most prepared to race tend to dominate.

 

Whether that preparation involves spending money or building cars or just being an experienced driver, no amount of leveling will take away the "advantage" such racers have.


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#63 Mark Wampler

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 06:09 PM

I miss handouts at Buena Park, but its still usually the top guys on top either way.  I'd be MORE inclined to race the King track IF handout motors were brought back.  At least at the Checkpoint and Western Classic. 3 motor limit !!


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#64 Dominator

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 07:24 PM

As it says on my signature line "A motor is only as fast as the chassis it's in". I'm not saying the motors are 100% identical and there will be a few that are rockets.

If the chassis is too soft or has too much flex it will slow the car down. I found this out when I went to HVR last month as I came prepared with Can Am's that would normally work really well on the flatter style track's here in New England but even on a driver's King like HVR the chassis where a little too soft and believe me I had a good motors. The fact was the chassis was slowing the motor down. All I'm saying is if you have a motor that seems to be running slow the best thing to do is put the motor, same gears, tires and body on another frame and see if there is a difference.

As for whether or not to have a handout motor at premier events, I think it should be limited to coupes or a single class.
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#65 Tom Eatherly

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 08:56 PM

Seems, as usual, that the racers most prepared to race tend to dominate.

 

Whether that preparation involves spending money or building cars or just being an experienced driver, no amount of leveling will take away the "advantage" such racers have.

Agreed 100%. I can name four guys at BPR that prep more than most, and they are always on the podium. Duran, Bryan Warmack, Mill Conroy and Gary Donahoe. These racers are the most prepared at ANY of our events. They win.


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#66 Jason Holmes

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 10:10 PM

For me when it comes to handout race's its much easier Prep the roller before going get there set-up the pit buy 2 motors break them in bolt them in to test pick 1 and run I hour tops ready to Race as has been said this way it is what it is I have been doing this a long time now it time to Have Fun at every race win lose or draw 

 

So Hand Outs  make it Simple and if you wish to buy 30 the day of the Race have at it the Track will Love You 

 

I just like everyone reaching in the same box on the same day

 

Jason


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#67 S.O. Watt

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 10:18 PM

Events vary.

 

What may work at the Fall Brawl, Sano, or R4, etc  will vary.

 

Pit space, people density, track(s) available to run on, event length, event content.

 

one shoe won't fit all.


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#68 Jason Holmes

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 11:03 PM

I think when it comes to this Motor and that's what we are talking about one size (shoe) does fit all

 

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#69 Noose

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 05:47 AM

It seems that all are assuming that the raceway will buy enough of these motors to have for ALL the handouts.  Jason, I have never seen 30 motors sold to a racer at a hand out race.  Usually the limit is 2 to start with and then sometimes the availability to get 1 more.  This of course has been for 1 class with handouts.


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#70 Jason Holmes

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 11:57 AM

Joe  you have not been to one of your Handout races I have seen someone buy 40 for 2 races  and they would mark 400+ and sell all sad but true

 

Jason

 

me only 2 per class and play 



#71 MSwiss

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 12:09 PM

How do you get pinions on and test that many motors?


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#72 Jason Holmes

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 12:41 PM

They Were doing a water break in 10 at a time I saw that and just walked away didn't watch the rest 

 

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#73 Noose

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 12:46 PM

Joe  you have not been to one of your Handout races I have seen someone buy 40 for 2 races  and they would mark 400+ and sell all sad but true

 

Jason

 

me only 2 per class and play 

I assume you mean someone bought 40 motors but not 40 handout motors.  They could not buy that many handout motors. 


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#74 James Grandi

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 12:55 PM

I've seen someone buy all the remaining handout motors ( 30+ ) in one shot only after the handout coupe races were over, but I don't think I've seen anyone buy more than 3 leading up to the race in the morning
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#75 Noose

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 01:02 PM

I've seen someone buy all the remaining handout motors ( 30+ ) in one shot only after the handout coupe races were over, but I don't think I've seen anyone buy more than 3 leading up to the race in the morning

Yup, that's a different story. Raceway offers up left over handouts and anyone can buy as many  as they want.


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#76 MSwiss

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 01:28 PM

Joe  you have not been to one of your Handout races I have seen someone buy 40 for 2 races  and they would mark 400+ and sell all sad but true

 

Jason

 

 

I assume you mean someone bought 40 motors but not 40 handout motors.  They could not buy that many handout motors. 

Joe,

I think Jason meant "our Handout races".


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#77 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 01:31 PM

I believe the RH motor levels the playing field.  Retro Hawk Lives Matter.  There is already a pro class with handouts.  Thought I was missing something, had to go re-read the IRRA rules. They say track owner may elect to do handouts in other classes. Sounds like a lot of headache to sell 150 motors and force the price on the racers who clearly already have a RH motor program.  

 

I wish Florida would get a premier event.  :shout:


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#78 Rick

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 02:22 PM

Interesting topic to say the least. Many points of view. Someone mentioned it and I always say, racer "vote" with their entry $$$$. It appears most all are in agreement with the one class as a handout race. The rest, and I fully understand, race some series racing and will squirrel away and few good motors for a special event. Why would anyone seriously want to buy more motors when they already have a bunch?

 

The level the playing field is was over used. You can say appearances might be more valid term. Appearances vs reality? Look at the races and you will notice the mid range racers are about the same place with hand outs and run what ya brung. The A mains have the usual subjects too. 

 

Bottom line, don't fix what ain't broken................


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#79 Jason Holmes

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 11:05 PM

Joe

 

We have no limit on Hand-out Motors when we do it out here so yes I did mean 40 handouts at 1 race weekend

 

jason

 

I think you guys have a limit don't know what it is say 4 per handout race not us



#80 Mark Wampler

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Posted 26 August 2016 - 12:51 AM

Some time ago I had asked if the TSR motors were still around, since the Retro Hawk took over.  As it turns out, there is still an abundance of TSR's in stock.  They're a buck cheaper, easier to break in and can be handed out race day.  It makes a longer day with handouts, BUT SoCal racers were content with it.  Numbering and registering motors is a thankless job.  Everything was tried to 'level' the playing field, up to and including a spot weld on the endbell to ensure no tampering could happen when motors were handed out on Friday This was so racers could prep and be ready for Saturday.  That would be okay, BUT there were rumors of motors being broken into.  So secret markings were embedded in the motors and even a can gauge to measure if the case had been collapsed at the tech table.. SCRRA has tried everything that could be tried along this subject.

 

My opinion is to go back to TSR's for Checkpoint and Western Classic on F-1 and CanAm races,  Reach in a bag and grab a few on race day and have fun.  RH motors for other orgs.... I guess.  SoCal flat track racers have  a special love for TSR's .


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#81 Tom Thumb Hobbies

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Posted 31 August 2016 - 10:24 AM

OK. This has been a great discussion about handouts or no handouts.  Plenty of good opinions both pro and con. I was considering expanding the handouts for the tenth anniversary of the R4 coming up next year. There is seldom a "perfect" answer to any issue. Handing out motors could possibly solve some problems but would create some others. Without a clear cut advantage it seems silly to make a change. So.....for the R4/10 it will stay handout RH for GTC only with the exception that ALL GTC racers will run a handout.  

 

THANKS for the civil discussion about what has been in the past a touchy topic.


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#82 NY Nick

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Posted 31 August 2016 - 05:30 PM

Slot car racing is not cheap, Hand out motors or not.

Think about it, we are like coke heads always looking for the next great what ever.

That is the fun of it. 


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#83 Brian Cochrane

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Posted 01 September 2016 - 10:03 AM

Hey I believe I finished 4th in  Stock car at retropaloza


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