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Question on fishtailing


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#1 Dennis Krivacek

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 11:23 PM

OK boys, what makes some F1's fishtail coming out of the high bank on a king track?  Despite trying different tire compounds and upon advice,  different size tires, the problem persists. This is occurring with several types of F1 builds. Any suggestions?






#2 Ramcatlarry

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 11:27 PM

Retro inline F1 and all inline cars have torque steer accelerating AND decelerating.  Lighter the car, the worse it is.


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#3 bbr

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 11:46 PM

coming off the bank the chassis unloads, it also doesn't help that the track has to start to bank the other way for the deadman.

some chassis design behaves better that others, where it unloads at a rate that doesn't fishtail that bad


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#4 slotcarone

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Posted 14 September 2016 - 05:54 AM

This can also be affected by the guide height adjustment. :D


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#5 John Streisguth

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Posted 14 September 2016 - 06:45 AM

Does it actually fishtail or do a "death wobble"?


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#6 tonyp

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Posted 14 September 2016 - 07:38 AM

Try setting the fronts so they don't touch as hard.
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#7 Dennis Krivacek

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Posted 14 September 2016 - 08:34 AM

Thanks for the suggestions!
 



#8 The Number of

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Posted 14 September 2016 - 09:12 AM

Use a really slow motor I have extras if you need any. :)
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#9 Uncle Fred

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Posted 14 September 2016 - 09:53 AM

Try rounding the inner edge of the tires more.


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#10 Matt Sheldon

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Posted 14 September 2016 - 09:56 AM

I like Mike and Tony's suggestions, both go hand in hand and are similar.


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#11 Racer36

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Posted 14 September 2016 - 10:56 AM

I figure if you keep your F1 off the floor you are doing quite well.
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#12 penske

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Posted 14 September 2016 - 12:21 PM

Dennis.  Have you tested using a different F1 body style ?   There are many different styles available  today.

 

You can also try moving the body back on the chassis a bit.  Might increase down force at the rear end.

Roger


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#13 tonyp

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Posted 14 September 2016 - 02:02 PM

No one asked what body is being used or I missed that.
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#14 Dominator

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Posted 14 September 2016 - 04:05 PM

Make sure your fronts are getting some grip. Try cleaning with light fluid or scuff them with the tire grinder.

For bodies, I would suggest using the outsight or Chicagoland M7. If the chassis doesn't work with that body you know it's not the body. Also make sure the interior is not hanging up on the lead wires or chassis.
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#15 Dennis Krivacek

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Posted 14 September 2016 - 08:38 PM

Body was a Parma Mantra


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#16 Dominator

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Posted 14 September 2016 - 08:45 PM

The Mantra is not a bad body IMO on a high bank, stuck King. If the track is loose the body does not have as much down force as the M7.

A motor is only as fast as the chassis it's in.
 
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#17 Noose

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Posted 15 September 2016 - 06:20 AM

Uh..you do mean Matra I assume.


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#18 Tim Neja

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Posted 15 September 2016 - 07:53 PM

Perhaps chanting a "Mantra" will help coming out of the bank!!! Like ----"Grip it Grip it Grip it!!!"   :laugh2:  :victory:


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#19 Dominator

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Posted 15 September 2016 - 08:43 PM

Oops, auto correct lol
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#20 LindsayB

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Posted 15 September 2016 - 10:00 PM

with everything else being equal - traction/tyres etc - you may need to run a higher gear ratio to kill the speed, 1 less tooth on the pinion. Cant make much speed if your backing off to stop the wobble.


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#21 NSwanberg

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Posted 16 September 2016 - 01:33 AM

Nothing is worth a de-slot, nothing is worth a de-slot.....hohmmmmm..... Nothing is worth a de-slot...............

 

Isn't this the Parma mantra?


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#22 swodem

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 04:03 PM

with everything else being equal - traction/tyres etc - you may need to run a higher gear ratio to kill the speed, 1 less tooth on the pinion. Cant make much speed if your backing off to stop the wobble.

 

That would be a lower gear ratio



#23 smichslot

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 05:48 PM

Well,

 

30 divided by 6 is a higher number that 30 divided by 7.

Which one is the higher ratio?

 

Steen


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#24 DE38

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 06:09 PM

The way I have always understood it was the numerically higher ratio (30 divided by 6,5.00) is actually the lower gear ratio, and the other(30 divided by 7,4.28) lower numerically but higher ratio.


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#25 Ralph Thorne

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 06:24 PM

The way I have always understood it was the numerically higher ratio (30 divided by 6,5.00) is actually the lower gear ratio, and the other(30 divided by 7,4.28) lower numerically but higher ratio.


That is correct.
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#26 MSwiss

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 09:33 PM

Probably the easy way to remember (other than it's the opposite), is a low gear ratio gives you better low end, and a high gear ratio gives you higher top end.


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#27 SlowBeas

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Posted 15 November 2016 - 01:24 PM

I can remember  my dad, a former dirt-track and street-drag novice racer back in the '50s, explaining how he installed a "higher" gear ratio (his words) in his old Plymouth, which gave him more jump off the starting line, causing him to wind-out his gears much quicker.

 

The higher ratio robbed him of some of his top end, but short-track and drag racing relied heavily on fast acceleration & deceleration.

 

For slot racers, the lower the overall ratio (3:1, for example) should have more top end than a higher ratio (say, 4:1) in the same car. But that 4:1 will likely experience much better acceleration from a dead stop or slower speeds. That can be helpful in a race with a lot of track calls or on a track with a lot of twists and turns where you have to slow down, speed up, slow down, speed up...

 

In algebra, didn't we refer to the difference in ratios as being wider or narrower? Less confusing to me.


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#28 Mark Wampler

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Posted 15 November 2016 - 02:16 PM

Getting back to the original question.  Be sure to check the bottom of the chassis and front of body for anything dragging..


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#29 SlowBeas

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Posted 16 November 2016 - 11:40 AM

Good call, Mark. I'm a bit guilty of participating in some serious thread drift.

 

I've found that another cause of F1 fishtailing is the front tires and how they touch the surface in the turn. Sometimes, all it takes is a .005 spacer under the flag to ease that pressure. Just a thought.

 

If you're able to determine the cause or find a solution that works for you, I'm sure others would love to hear.


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#30 swodem

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Posted 27 November 2016 - 01:23 AM

I think you're confusing a WIDER ratio with a HIGHER ratio

In your car, 1st is a lower ratio than 5th,
My 4WD has a low-ratio box for crawling or steep climbing
Trucks and cars change down for long descents when carrying a load or towing so the motor becomes a brake as well...

b6fea891e179dea6664ee64fe6d61a03.jpg

Just had this debate at our club yesterday.


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#31 swodem

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Posted 27 November 2016 - 01:31 AM

Getting back to the original question.  Be sure to check the bottom of the chassis and front of body for anything dragging..

Hahaha yeah this caught me out a couple years ago, couldn't work out what was wrong. But I'm soldering in a motor, I had collected a small bit of solder underneath the chassis. Obviously was sitting on it and the chassis just got hot enough to hold on to it
Easy way to check, fold your braids out forward, sit on level board and tap the corners...


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