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An FT36D with a twist


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#1 havlicek

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Posted 22 September 2016 - 06:20 PM

A nice motor with a solid bearing in the can.  I don't know where the bearing came from, but it's about the only seemingly solid bearing I've seen for these.

Hmmm...looks pretty spiffy, but not unusual.

IMG_1713_zpszfvqxde1.jpg

 

Clean?...yep, but we've seen a bunch of these old guys:
IMG_1712_zpskjgmmghr.jpg

 

Ahhh...OK, here's the "twist"!
IMG_1715_zpsbuvfbgkx.jpg

 

...a skewed lam #28 arm with the fiber stack insulators and two lams removed!  Not a "stoopid hot" wind, but should be a nicely balanced arm.  They're not the easiest to wind, but they make for a smooth and unique motor!  On this one, I skewed the stack as much as I ever have and cranked the timing too.
IMG_1716_zpsloukbbif.jpg

 

Why do I do this stuff?...because I can!
IMG_1717_zps4wvfnmcm.jpg

 

-john
 


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John Havlicek




#2 slotcarone

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Posted 22 September 2016 - 08:49 PM

From the Skewed Mind of John H!!! :D


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#3 Samiam

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Posted 22 September 2016 - 10:00 PM

'Ya gotta' be a little twisted

 


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Sam Levitch
 
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#4 Geary Carrier

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Posted 22 September 2016 - 10:42 PM

Hi Sam,

 

My mother always told me that Acid Rock would make me crazy, and yet somehow I wound up here with Twisted Sister, completely sane...

 

Nice one...

 

 

Thanks,

g


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#5 Geary Carrier

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Posted 22 September 2016 - 11:20 PM

Hi John,

 

This is one Ducky big block...

 

What do you typically set the armature end play at for these bad boys?

 

Do you use 3/32" axle spacers?

 

What material do you prefer the spacers be made of when in contact with an oilite or a ball bearing?

 

Do you have a favored method of winding the Kevlar on the commutator and welded connections?

 

 

Thanks,

g


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Yes, to be sure, this is it...


#6 havlicek

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Posted 23 September 2016 - 05:43 AM

Thanks for looking, guys.
 

What do you typically set the armature end play at for these bad boys?

 
As little as possible without anything binding Geary.  The truth is that means a little more than on later and modern motors.  The Mabuchis bushings were/are awful.  The can bushing can be fixed, as was done here, with either a non-moveable bushing or a bearing.  I didn't install this bearing, or even know what the source was.  The ones I've seen that come with a bearing installed "look" OK, but they're junk and will self-destruct in no time.  This one is a solid unit and fits the Mabuchi's oddball shaft size pretty well...but I prefer to have the flange on the inside of the can for obvious reasons.  I don't know what's holding it in there...probably epoxy or something.  Anyway, the end bell bushing (*actually, the end bell in general) is not an easy fix (outside of just cutting it out and installing a bearing strap using the end bell screw holes, which presents other issues.  A tight setup can result in early failure of these motors, *especially if the arm isn't well-centered in the field, because of friction/heat.  I don't have a "scientific" measurement...I just do them by what seems right.

 

Do you use 3/32" axle spacers?

 

Yes, sometimes I do, and they seem to fit the shaft at least as well as the *actual* spacers, but I save as many of the stock spacers as I can from junk motors.
 

What material do you prefer the spacers be made of when in contact with an oilite or a ball bearing?

 

Against an oilite, I *think* brass/bronze spacers make more sense, but any difference that steel might make in wear is probably very slight.  There are some very nice steel spacers out there...precise and all the way down to super-duper thin, but there's one thing about them that sort of bothers me.  On motors with strong magnets (NOT the standard Mabuchi magnets :)  ) , you can be installing the arm and have the spacers get sucked right off the arm.  Then it's sometimes really difficult to get the little things back out.  Funny, I once had this happen and couldn't figure out why the end play didn't change after adding the spacer.   :D
 

Do you have a favored method of winding the Kevlar on the commutator and welded connections?

 

All my arms (whether welded or soldered) get tied and epoxied, and I have settled on a way of tying them.  I start out by passing the kevlar under one of the wires in the tiny space between the com spacer and the wire, wrap around a couple of times and then start going over and under each tab.  When I'm using kevlar thread, I'll go over and under each tab at least twice.  When I'm using a little heavier kevlar, just once over and under each tab to form an "x".  After the last tab, I go back down under the com and wrap the wires at least once before knotting the kevlar.  The knot also matters, because kevlar doesn't "like" to be knotted like say cotton.  If you look up some of the knots used by the guys who tie flies, there are some neat ones, but I use sort of a modified square knot.  I did have the knot fall apart once some time back, so I changed things up.  I had always figured that the epoxy would make any knot suitable, but maybe I didn't make sure the knot was well-saturated on that arm.  Anyway, since then I changed my knot and always make sure the knot and all the rest of the kevlar is saturated with epoxy.
 
-john


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John Havlicek

#7 Geary Carrier

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Posted 23 September 2016 - 12:04 PM

Hi John,

 

Thank you my good man,

Comprehensive as always

 

g


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#8 tonyp

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Posted 24 September 2016 - 06:00 AM

Should have lots of top end and smooth torque band. We used these years ago in R/C for off road racing to reduce wheel spin. It should run good.


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#9 havlicek

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Posted 24 September 2016 - 06:49 AM

Thanks for the info Tony.  I did my first one some years ago when Barney suggested trying it.  He had (I think) what was a hot C motor with a skewed stack that performed the way you describe.  These type arms are also used in model railroading as well, for similar reasons, although those are wound for torque rather than RPMs.  Its cool to know that they were also used in RC!  The ones I've done so far have been cool...so I went all the way with this one.  Speaking of "going all the way", the end bell here was badly cracked on BOTH sides of the bushing.  Instead of chucking it, I whipped up a bearing strap, although when i say "whipped up", I mean I engaged in some tedious tinkering for several hours, when I wouldn't know if I hit it just right until after I was done and reinstalled the armature :)
IMG_1723_zpszjd7hzow.jpg

IMG_1724_zpsuwej9qai.jpg

 

The arm spins with a nice solid/smooth feel now.  I still have to solder the hoods, and then this will pretty much be an "everything but the kitchen sink" job.

 

-john


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John Havlicek

#10 havlicek

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Posted 24 September 2016 - 11:13 AM

Before I head out, I got the rest of the end bell done.  Hoods are soldered and I used some black oxide screws to attach them for a more similar look to the ones I used for the bushing strap.  Adding brass post sleeves completes the "fashion statement", and I think this is one of the nicer FT36D motors I've done.  Add the special arm and it's a pretty cool motor.

IMG_1725_zpsrvbksqde.jpg

 

-john


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#11 Samiam

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Posted 24 September 2016 - 03:57 PM

That bad boy would go nice in one of these:

http://www.ebay.com/...=STRK:MEBIDX:IT


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Sam Levitch
 
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Support your local raceway, or you won't have one.
Slot cars are quad-pods.
Support your "Local Racer."
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#12 Jairus

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Posted 24 September 2016 - 07:04 PM

Now, we just need a class for 36D motors.
Because I could send John lots of parts...

 

By the way, the skewed lam arm is freaking beautiful John!!!!


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#13 havlicek

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Posted 25 September 2016 - 07:48 AM

Thanks again guys!  


John Havlicek

#14 Joe Mig

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Posted 25 September 2016 - 09:01 AM

That skewed arm looks like it'll sing a beutifull tune. I wonder how they would work in a drag setup?
Joseph Migliaccio. Karma it's a wonderful thing.

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#15 havlicek

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Posted 25 September 2016 - 10:44 AM

That skewed arm looks like it'll sing a beutifull tune. I wonder how they would work in a drag setup?

Hi Joe,

 

     Really, everything Tony said and what I've seen means that the motor will run smooth and fast.  The "smooth" part relates to what Tony said about mitigating "wheelspin".  On a drag car, that could be a good or a bad thing.  I mean, I guess that in slots (as in 1:1 drags), getting the car to hookup and not waste power is a big thing.  Tinkering with gear ratios, tires and weight is aimed at getting the best out of what the motor can deliver.  I can't say whether this arm would be "better" for a drag or a road car, or even guess.  The only thing I can figure is that a smooth delivery of torque is at least as important for a road car...maybe even more so.  I mean, people stick a "sooper dooper" motor in a slot car and then dial it back with a choke.  It seems to me that being more able to drive the car, instead of fighting the car's speed would be a good thing.  I think that "generally", skewed lam arms seem to have good RPMs and a smooth torque characteristic.  "Better" than a straight stack arm?  I doubt it (otherwise we'd be seeing lots of them around)...just "different" and in a good way.

 

-john


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#16 wbugenis

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Posted 07 October 2016 - 01:31 PM

"Do you have a favored method of winding the Kevlar on the commutator and welded connections?"

 
Try a Surgeons knot for tying the kevlar:
 
Surgeon's knot
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William Bugenis

#17 havlicek

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Posted 08 October 2016 - 07:20 AM

That's sort of what I do, Bill... except I double it up, adding an extra twist to both the first and second "throw."
John Havlicek

#18 wbugenis

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Posted 08 October 2016 - 09:06 AM

Nothing beats experience - I do the same thing.  But I thought the link has a nice picture of the knot.


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#19 havlicek

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Posted 08 October 2016 - 10:00 AM

Yes, the link DOES explain it well...never saw it before, thanks!

 

-john


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#20 wbugenis

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Posted 08 October 2016 - 12:31 PM

I'm not pretending to give YOU advice, John.

This is, in a small way, to get your many fans to overcome some problems and turn some stuff out. 

The Kevlar is a tricky material to tie. Our old friend Monty Ohren wrestled with this little demon himself.  
 
Bill
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#21 havlicek

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Posted 08 October 2016 - 02:00 PM

Hi Bill,

 

     You've given me PLENTY of advice Bill, and it has all been much-appreciated.  In particular, this thing came from you.  I was horrified to find out that one of the arms I wound for you early on had the kevlar knot let go.  You're the one who spurred me to do something better, about this and other things as well!  So, you're on the short list (VERY short list) of people who have been willing to point me in the right direction!

 

-john


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#22 Hermit #1

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Posted 20 October 2016 - 10:50 PM

Back in 1964 thru 1966 I patronized a raceway in Maitland, FL that had an American Orange track.  Their house brand of rewind was known as the Vaughn-McCauley Whistler, all of them Mabuchis featuring slanted stacks.

As noted in earlier posts, they were very smooth, high-revving motors - with a distinctive high-pitched scream going down the straightaways.  The sound of a track full of them racing was most impressive - I still remember it well.  :whistle3:

 


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