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A Champion... well... Champion!


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#1 havlicek

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Posted 05 October 2016 - 03:45 PM

I like to think that, back in those storied days of "run what you brung", this would have been a good thing to bring.  :)  I assembled a buncha parts for a top shelf Champion 16D.  Well, at least the can is a Champion anyway!
IMG_1740_zpseqvdeuzp.jpg

 

First thing I did was take out the big ol' honkin' bushing by grinding the inside until it could be removed, which takes a lot more grinding on one of these than it does on a Russkit 22/23.  Then, before fliupping the bushing around so the old outside became the new inside, I thinned out both sides of the bushing until the new outside was about flush with the can and the inside was as thin as I could safely make it.  Then I soldered that in place.  Afterwards, I reamed out the bushing to accept a 2mm x 6mm bearing...no...not the sloppy Mabuchi type, an actual bearing.

 

Afterwards, I turned my attention to the end bell.  I chose one of the Hong Kong type because of their MUCH better material.  These are very much like the Champion ones, but far more heat-resistant and tough.  I made up an adapter to fit a 2mm x 6mm bearing and epoxied that in.
IMG_1741_zpsvwpp7inp.jpg

 

Since I was already "in deep", I figured I'd adapt the end bell to the larger "36D" size (ie: "modern standard) brush tubes and soldered those to the hoods.  While I was at it, I drilled the end bell for better ventilation.  What we have here now is a proper end bell!
IMG_1742_zpshwwttrga.jpg

 

Inside the can, you can see a nifty set of strong D motor magnets.  They're not EPX mags, but they're just as strong, so I centered them and epoxied them into the can.  This is also a better view of the can bearing arrangement.
IMG_1743_zpsjjyxuo3o.jpg

 

Sooo, to go with all this upgrading/modifying, there was a need for serious horsepower, so I wound a #26 arm on a .560" OD x .460" long stack.  This is a wind that really puts out, while staying just this side of insane.  The "hole" here is about .590", and with the arm at around .560", the combination should be deadly serious.
IMG_1744_zpsvxnds4an.jpg

 

Serious horsepower!
IMG_1745_zpse47fimy5.jpg

 

-john


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John Havlicek




#2 Samiam

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Posted 05 October 2016 - 04:24 PM

Nice work John.

 

That's a 16-D with all the right stuff. More like a 16-"DD"

 

How many turns of #26 on that arm?


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#3 JimF

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Posted 05 October 2016 - 05:31 PM

That's a 16-D with all the right stuff. More like a 16-"DD"

 
16-"DD"...?   Ya mean like... uhhhh... "enhanced"?
 
Oh... and as always... awsome work, John.


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#4 havlicek

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 06:15 AM

Thanks for looking guys.

 

 

 

How many turns of #26 on that arm?

 

Hey...does Macy's tell Gimbels!?  Just kiddin'...27/26.  The arm comes in at just about exactly .1 ohm.  #26 arms are an excellent choice for going really REALLY fast, but with a little more "safety" than a #25.  With the very strong magnets here, a #26 just seemed to make sense...even if it is a 16D.

*I forgot to mention above another aspect of the end bell.  The Hong Kong Mabuchi end bells have a huge advantage in material, but they're molded to flush out and even be a bit proud of the thicker Hong Kong cans.  While they're a perfect fit to the internal dimensions of the thinner Mabuchi and Champion cans which is most important, they wind up being a bit larger on all four sides than the Mabuchi/Champ cans.  I took this end bell down on all sides to basically "flush-out" where it meets the can.  That way, an intrepid scratchbuilder can get the lowest COG out of the motor/chassis.  

***If course, with this much power, a motor like this needs to be locked-down securely to maintain a rock-solid relationship with the axle and gear.  There's enough shaft here for this motor to go either can drive or end bell drive, but with the can coming pre-drilled for can mounting and that being a more solid way to go, that would be "better".  Also, since the arm is timed CCW, the motor could even go anglewinder/can drive in a typically "modern" configuration.  As an inline like a "thingie", it could go either can or end bell drive, but a solid lockdown would still be important.  Revs AND torque were the aim here.

 

-john


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#5 olescratch

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 07:46 AM

Nicely done!  I really like the treatment of the can bearing.  Did you remove the large bearing completely , then grind it, or grind it down to size while in the can?  If you did it while it was in the can, how'd ya do it?


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#6 havlicek

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 01:15 PM

Nicely done!  I really like the treatment of the can bearing.  Did you remove the large bearing completely , then grind it, or grind it down to size while in the can?  If you did it while it was in the can, how'd ya do it?

 

Hi John and thanks.

 

These bushings are staked to the can from the outside, forming a sort of "collar" or "flare" on the inside that prevents them from coming out.  I ground the inside of the bushing with a grinding tool in the Proxxon that has a slightly convex profile, to be sure I didn't screw up the can metal.  When I had the bushing almost flush with the inside of the can, I was able to grab the outside of it and work it out.  

Next I thinned-down the old outside of the bushing so it wouldn't stick into the can so far as to make the new arm's tail-spacer too short. 

 

Then I flipped it around and soldered it back into the can hole, neutralizing any acid residue afterwards. 

Next I used a tapered hand ream to open up the old shaft hole for a bearing (2mm x 6mm in this case).

Then, before soldering-in the new bearing, I sanded the outside of the old bushing (which is now a bearing adapter) flush to the can end.

Then I was able to solder-in the new bearing, neutralize the acid again and paint (well...after epoxying in the magnets anyway).

***All the above works well with nothing more than a hand grinder, a ream and some sandpaper because the original bushing hole is always used as the 

"center" for each step.  The sequence of each little job is really what it's all about.  Each little job is stoopid-EZ.

 

-john


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John Havlicek

#7 olescratch

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 08:30 PM

Once again, it seems like an awful lot of hard work that you make simple through a step by step explanation. 


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John Stewart

#8 havlicek

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Posted 07 October 2016 - 06:35 AM

Once again, it seems like an awful lot of hard work that you make simple through a step by step explanation. 

 

Hi John,

 

     None of this is all that difficult.  Well, the arm itself, and all that involves is difficult and takes practice (*I'll let you know when I feel like I have that nailed :)  ).  Doing the motor stuff is really about problem-solving, and a lot about following a sequence.  With this motor, having a true center (*or at least close) allows you to keep doing the steps, and that's true of the can, end bell and the arm even, because you can't build an arm without a completed setup.  I go through the same thought process all the time with these, even when it's a motor type I haven't done.  I do this habitually with carpentry as well and would think that machinists, plumbers, electricians, mechanics...anyone who builds or fixes things, probably does as well.  ***When you think about it, the guys who build the beautiful chassis you see here and paint those lovely bodies also have to follow a sequence of steps, and they know ahead of time that "to get to here, I need to go through this first".  It makes things MUCH easier, and even in many cases just possible.

 

-john


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John Havlicek

#9 olescratch

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Posted 07 October 2016 - 12:01 PM

Yeah!  It's obvious that this hobby takes a lot of trial and error to get to the point of being as good as you, and many of the guys building chassis and painting cars.  I hope that I can get good enough to be able to share some of my work with others here on the Blog.  I was able to finally get my hands on an arm winder, my goal is to be able to produce enough of the "walnuts" to satisfy my need for my builds.  Of course I will also have to be able to build a few chassis to go along with them.  I want to be able to build as many of the "parts" as possible to complete a car that moves around the track.  I'm not a spead freak, wing cars suck as far as I'm concerned, I will be happy to see something that resembles a car that I built make a few laps.  I'm preparing a room on a lower level of my garrage that I can use to try and get this done, the steps are beginning to take a toll on my hips, and I'm almost ready to start building some cars when I can't get out to fish.  I enjoy your work, and will always be apreciative of the way you share your knowledge of you craft.  Keep on allowing us to see what you're doing, and thanks for all the help you give to those of us with questions here on this site.


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John Stewart

#10 havlicek

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Posted 07 October 2016 - 12:54 PM

Thanks John.  I enjoy sharing here as much because of how little "the fast guys" were willing to share with me as a kid, as for any other reason.  Even today, there are very few who do arms who are willing to actually say what they do, where to get supplies, "gotchas" to look out for etc.  By all means, share whatever you got, even if you're a little "shy" about doing so.  There are so few who even peek inside motors, let alone wind arms that I guarantee you there'll only be appreciative responses (aside from the occasional dummy)!

 

-john


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#11 Geary Carrier

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Posted 07 October 2016 - 02:11 PM

Gentlemen,

 

I'm still working my way up to dummy and the path is long and arduous, yet I've personally asked the OCD Rewinder more than a few questions and he never fails to answer, in detail, whatever I might ask...

 

Now this is truly giving...

 

Thanks,

g


Yes, to be sure, this is it...


#12 havlicek

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Posted 07 October 2016 - 02:40 PM

If we were neighbors, I'd gladly have you over to walk you through a couple of arms Geary.  There was even talk one time of showing that stuff to some kids at a track (I think Buzzy's?) but it never happened.  Thankfully, SlotBlog is a great way to document this stuff and share info...so I'm happy I have this place!


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John Havlicek

#13 olescratch

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Posted 07 October 2016 - 08:31 PM

Documentation is one of the key factors.  When your slow like me, it helps to be able to re-read some of the things that may not be totally clear the first time around.  To be able to take a topic, copy it, then take it with you to your workbench is very helpful!  Long live the Blog, and the help that can be found here.


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