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1967 Gurney Indy Eagle 1/24 build


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#1 Pablo

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Posted 08 October 2016 - 01:44 PM

IMG_3239.JPG

 

This is going to be an interesting, fun new challenge for me.

I say "fun" because the owner has given me license to do it however I see fit.

I say "challenging" because it will be a static display model, which changes the game somewhat.

 

Example, real Indy cars don't use skinny front wheels like slot cars benefit from.

So my wheel plan, for now anyway, is to use Russkit Replica 723 wheels all 'round, shod with Ortmann tires.

Something I have no experience with - yet :)

 

The first thing I learned, and thanks to dc-65x for lots of advice as usual -

despite Lancer's claim of their bodies being "CRYSTAL CLEAR", they are butyrate, not Lexan.

Lacquer paints are a no-no, so I decided on Testors Sea Blue enamel.

 

The next learning moment was a real surprise for me - since I love my inside (waterslide) decals using Faux Glazing Medium, I tried a crazy test.

You can see where I used the cockpit area to try some paint experiments - note the "Mobil" decal.

Enamels don't melt inside decals like I thought they would - it works fine, just as it does with acrylics :dance3:


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#2 Pablo

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 03:58 PM

Paint test: I used a race body to see exactly what the Testors Enamel Flat Sea Blue would look like (not good):

 

IMG_3256.JPG

 

That's the first time I've ever sprayed enamel on a slot car body. Worked OK but it isn't the color I want.

Now at least I know exactly what direction I need to go for a Gurney dark metallic blue :)

 

Cannibalized a couple cheap brushes for the tapered exhaust pipes; gray primered and painted with low gloss engine enamel.

Also painted some Lexan for the air control device across the pipes

 

IMG_3267.JPG


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#3 Bill from NH

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 05:08 PM

Sounds like a fun project. Lancer sold a boatload of painted bodies in various colors. Some of those I have, have curled sides, other colors don't curl. I wonder what types of paint Lancer used, or if they were more interested in what color was being used. In the day, I didn't read Testor enamels being used for other than body details, but it might have been. Since you need an exact shade, be sure to include your undercoat/primer colors too. Have fun! :)


Bill Fernald

 

I for I, like roman numerals.


#4 dc-65x

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 05:33 PM

Hi Pablo,

 

I admit to not being a "rivet counter" as far as duplicating cars to the nth degree. But I have seen Gurney Eagle open wheel car pictures with quite a variation in the shade of blue. If all else fails you could consider using one of Testors Blue metallic or metal flake colors.

 

t_79.jpg

 

tes1209t.jpg


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#5 Neckcheese

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 02:54 AM

You can mix a good colour using Faskolor Metallic blue and black  or the same colours from Vellejo. And the Acrylics do stick to the body :-)

 

Niels, DK


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#6 Pablo

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 09:59 AM

Since you need an exact shade, be sure to include your undercoat/primer colors too. Have fun! :)

 

Undercoat ? Primer ? :shok:


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#7 Bill from NH

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 10:21 AM

If you spray the body inside, call it a backing color, ie white, silver, etc..  I'm used to using enamels on the outside of bodies, which usually used a primer.


Bill Fernald

 

I for I, like roman numerals.


#8 Pablo

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 10:28 AM

OK. If it does need a backing, what would you recommend for dark metallic blue ?

I tried white, black, and silver in tests and wasn't impressed.


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#9 Bill from NH

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 01:20 PM

Try an opaque blue.


Bill Fernald

 

I for I, like roman numerals.


#10 dc-65x

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 01:30 PM

Here's one of the Testors metallic blues (I forget which one but I'd choose the darker of the 2 today) with a silver backing:

 

ebay 5-4-16 007.JPG


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#11 Noose

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 02:10 PM

If you use the Faskolor metallic blue you can back it with black for a good match. 

 

EagleSpecial-2.jpg


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Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
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#12 dc-65x

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 02:24 PM

WOW!  That's beautiful Noose. :wub:

 

Have you used Faskcolor on vintage butyrate plastic bodies before. Will it curl them up into a ball over time like lacquer?


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#13 Noose

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 02:34 PM

No Faskolor or Createx is acrylic and essentially water based.  I have done several with them and no problems whatsoever.


Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
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#14 Pablo

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 04:00 PM

I'll do my best, but those are hard acts to follow :D

 

I added a few drops of 1147 gloss black to 1539 metallic blue and used Gurney's helmet as a test swatch.

Looks pretty close to me, and of course it won't be glossy like this when sprayed inside the shell

 

IMG_3274.JPG


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#15 dc-65x

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 04:46 PM

That looks really nice Pablo. I've got to remember that. :victory:


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#16 beardogracing

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 06:38 PM

Immense Miniatures offers a REAL Dan Gurney head in 1/24th. A superior Pablo Build deserves a superior Dan Gurney!

 

F-022%20DanGurney.jpg

 

http://immenseminiat.../Figures_1.html


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nRW8qQsEZkLUgHSN2Kp6.jpg

 

 


#17 Pablo

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 03:01 PM

Thanks Chris for the reminder :) but it's a Lancer body and it's going to have the Lancer head that came with it.

What I need now is an Ortmann consultant - wheels and tires arrived today and I have lots of questions about them.

 

The 723 Russkit replicas, I think, are the perfect size and I still intend to use them all 'round.

The Ortmann Firestone/Cox tires (despite the fact I wish they were Goodyears) are a perfect ID snap fit for the wheels.

The width is also a perfect fit.

 

But, question #1, are they trimmable/trueable ? They are way too big OD for this car, 1.16" :shok:

 

IMG_3283.JPG

 

#2, are the insides always rough like this, or are these defective ? All four are the same way.

 

IMG_3284.JPG

 

#3, one of them has splotches of a glossy dried liquid on the outside, what will remove this ?

 

IMG_3286.JPG

 

Too bad Ortmann doesn't have a website to list tire dimensions and answers to questions like these.

If they do, I sure can't find it.

 

I'm hoping this works out; if not, I'll simply go to plan B :)

 


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#18 dc-65x

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 03:33 PM

Hi Pablo,

 

I true Ortmann tires on my Hudy but just enough to get them round. The inside sidewall of their tires are rough because they are cast in an open mold....not injection molded in a closed mold like vintage slot car or model kit tires.

 

As for their diameter, their scale diameter should be about 1.03" for the front and about 1.13" for the rear. The fronts really should be smaller in diameter and width than the rears to look right.

 

How "scale" do you want to get for this car? Russkit wheels are a bit smaller than a scale 15" as they didn't take into account that the 15" size refers to the tire diameter accross the tires bead. The overall diameter of the wheel is actually about 1.5" bigger. A 1/24 scale 15" wheel should be about .688"


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#19 Bill from NH

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 04:06 PM

Ortmann's are urethanes aren't they? Two products we use to locally glue Paul Gage urethanes to aluminum rims are IC2000 rubber-toughened ca glue & Sally Hansen "Hard as Nails." A Hudy works fine for making them round.


Bill Fernald

 

I for I, like roman numerals.


#20 Pablo

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 04:22 PM

Thanks Rick, I really don't care about scale, I just want them to look proportional to the body.

I'd like to shoot for about 1.10 rear/1.00 front, and trim the bulge on the fronts a little narrower than the rears.

 

I hear you saying they are trueable on a Hudy, but can they be trimmed/sanded ? Enough to make them the OD and widths I want and remove all the ugliness from the insides ?

 

How about the glops of stuff on the sidewall ? It's on the outside - I can't "Hudy" it off ....

 

Bill, the fit is so perfect I don't plan on having to secure them. Unless the owner puts a G7 in and starts racing it :laugh2:


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#21 dc-65x

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 08:32 PM

I've never done anything to the sidewalls of Ortmann's or Paul's tires so I can't help. :unknw:


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#22 Pablo

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 08:53 PM

OK thanks Capt. Rick, I'll chuck 'em up to the Hudy tomorrow and we shall see......

What's the worst that could happen, I ruin a tire I don't like (so far) and nobody else here knows anything about anyway.

 

I have a feeling it's going to be a failure, but so far it's a failure anyway, so ...... :laugh2:  fix it or break it time  :to_become_senile:


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#23 dc-65x

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 09:13 PM

What would look really good and perform really bad would be some vintage kit car injection molded tires like the Cox Firestone's or K&B Goodyear's. I found some K&B rears on eBay but not much in the way of Cox.

 

I've got some Russkit Dunlop rear's you can have.................

 

Russkit Lotus 38- 003.JPG


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#24 Pablo

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 08:18 AM

Thanks Rick, first let me Hudy up these Ortmanns and see what happens. If it doesn't work, I'll go from there.

 

If you can tell me exactly which K & B Goodyear tires will fit the 723 wheels I'd scour eBay until I found 'em -

"looking good and performing bad" would be perfect for this build :) 

If the owner ever wanted to run it I'd simply supply him with 721 fronts with EJ's 15's and 723 rears with foam.


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#25 dc-65x

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 09:34 AM

Here are Paul's Slot Car Shop urethane K&B Goodyear Stock Car Special front and rear tires. They look to be mounted on some wheels that look a bit bigger in diameter than the Russkit's. The fronts will fit on the standard width Russkit rears (722?)...I have a ton of repops of them. I forget if the rears fit on 722's or 723's.

 

s-l16f00.jpg

 

These have the same "problem" on the inside sidewalls as Ortmann's but overall they look pretty nice and work well too.

 

Here is a link:

 

http://www.ebay.com/...=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

 

Here are the vintage rears:

 

s-l1600.jpg

 

The link:

 

http://www.ebay.com/...=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

 

I haven't find the fronts yet........

 

These tires look just like the Goodyear "Sports Car Special" tires but say "Stock Car Special" in tiny letters on the sidewall. Nothing ever seems to work out perfectly but these are close.

 

Paul has a standard compound which works well and is easier to grind. He also has a super soft XPG compound that is more difficult to grind.


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#26 Pablo

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 07:50 PM

Thanks for the help, Rick - if those K&B 419 tires fit the 723 wheels, they would be perfect.

 

Today I put one of the Ortmann's to the test on the Hudy. So far they seem to be perfectly happy being trimmed, trued, and sanded.

They may work fine, but I'm not completely sure just yet. 3 more to go :) tomorrow.....


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#27 Pablo

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Posted 14 October 2016 - 09:14 PM

Found these inserts at Pattos :dance3:  They look close enough to me:

 

wi054.JPG

 

 


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#28 Pablo

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Posted 15 October 2016 - 11:22 AM

Working through the challenges..... and learning as I go..... who knew waterslide decals would stick to tires ?

I can hardly believe it, but it works. Here is the test, and to top it off, Mop N Glo floor polish seals the decals and shines the tires after trimming:

 

IMG_3297.JPG

 

So I added 2 sets of these Goodyear decals to my Pattos order, one waterslide, one peel n stick:

 

godyeareagle24.JPG


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#29 Pablo

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Posted 15 October 2016 - 01:30 PM

One more coat of paint on Gurney's helmet, this time with much less metallic and a little more black.

 

IMG_3301.JPG

 

I'm learning with enamels the shade on the inside of a shell is much different than outside.

Painted another test body (O/S GTP) with the same paint and it looks like it needs a hair more black and more metal flake.

 

IMG_3304.JPG


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#30 Dave Crevie

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Posted 15 October 2016 - 03:43 PM

Getting the color to match on Lexan and solid styrene requires a coat of a color very close to the bare styrene to

be applied inside the Lexan body. I have run into this many times in the past. Just adding more coats of the finish

color won't correct it. You need to back it up with the same color as the hard parts.



#31 Pablo

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Posted 15 October 2016 - 03:58 PM

So, are you saying if I backed up the GTP body with the paint I used on the driver head in post #14, it would be a closer match ?

I could do that.


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#32 Neckcheese

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Posted 15 October 2016 - 04:36 PM

RetroF1FranceAbatch013-vi.jpg

 

Paul,

 

The Eagle in this picture is painted with a mixture of Vallejo Premium metallic blue and black. It can be backed by black if one wants it a bit darker.

The wheel inserts on the picture is my own cast in resin. They are 15mm outside diameter. Let me know if you can use these. They could be turned down a bit to suit smaller wheels.

 

 

Niels, DK


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www.racecars.dk - my Picasa Photos


#33 Pablo

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Posted 15 October 2016 - 05:39 PM

Thanks Niels :) Your shade of blue looks perfect, I hope mine turns out as nice.

Pattos inserts should work fine for me, but I appreciate the offer.

 

In the end, Ortmann tires trimmed and trued up real nice on the Hudy.

Mop n Glo makes 'em look nice and with Pattos decals and inserts they should do the trick.

Rears 1.1" OD, fronts 1.0" OD; rears slightly wider than fronts

 

IMG_3311.JPG


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#34 drrufo

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Posted 15 October 2016 - 05:43 PM

tire chart.jpg

 

Here is a Paul Gage table that shows tire sizes for Slot It cars. It should be handy for you build.


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#35 Pablo

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Posted 16 October 2016 - 05:21 PM

Castleton #103 motor bracket; straight, flat, true, and braced with a Cukras style "gear guard"

 

IMG_3316.JPG

 


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#36 Pablo

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Posted 17 October 2016 - 07:21 PM

Chassis builders take note - a trick Bill Fernald taught me -

lightly score the inside cut point of the tubing with a tubing cutter before soldering it to the bracket.

It gives you a visual reference point and makes the cut much easier.

 

In the end I'll probably true it up 100% with my dc-65x tubing gizmo, but I wish I had been doing this a long time ago in my retro builds .....

 

IMG_3329.JPG

 

This time I tried a better way to ensure the tubing is absolutely parallel to the bracket face:

 

IMG_3332.JPG  

 

 

 


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#37 bluecars

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 08:22 AM

Looks like your going for another winner. Also I have a good idea what color your next Dungeon GTP and JK car will look like. :D


Robert "Red" Valantine :diablo: 


#38 Pablo

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 08:32 AM

Yep. Not gonna let the fact it will only be a display car hold me back from making a proper chassis for it :)


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#39 Pablo

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 04:04 PM

No 1.1" jig wheels here, so I improvised by using my Briggs Jig .063" aluminum plate :music:

 

IMG_3344.JPG

 

Yes, Bunky, I know the jig motor shaft is crooked - the EB face has been melted like 16 times. The bracket is true. Now go back to your trailer and let me work

 

post-91-0-26404900-1409619211.jpg

 

 

Twin .063 rails. Bracket is angled to make front of 16D motor sit at exact ground zero.

Motor mount tubes left long, for now

 

IMG_3345.JPG


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Paul Wolcott

#40 Pablo

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Posted 19 October 2016 - 05:31 PM

Drop arm and flag - decisions, decisions...... :scratch_one-s_head:

I was planning to make a jaildoor drop arm, but digging around in my chassis parts drawer of horrors, I found this:

 

IMG_3354.JPG

 

If I choose to use it, here's what it would look like (cleaned up of course):

 

IMG_3356.JPG

 

Some potential flag candidates:

 

IMG_3351.JPG

 

If anybody knows the exact date of manufacture of the Ferret piece it would help my decision greatly.

I welcome your opinion on Ferret vs. jaildoor drop arm, and which flag, Jet, Cox Quickchange, Cox screw on braid, or Dynamic.

Especially if you are a bona-fide member of the Philippe de Lespinay Vintage Policia International University :D :dance3:


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#41 slotbaker

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Posted 19 October 2016 - 06:31 PM

Nice project Paul.

 

I'm not sure if I qualify as a bona-fide member of the PdLVPIU (maybe one day) so my comments are not qualified.

 

While I like the Ferret drop arm, it looks to be a latter production item than when the Eagle was at full flight, so I think the jaildoor drop arm with the Cox quick change would look better and complement the rest of your build.

 

Another comment, if I may, on the colour of DSG's helmet. Should it not be black??

:huh:

 

:popcorm1:


Steve King


#42 Samiam

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Posted 19 October 2016 - 07:19 PM

Pablo,

 

If you want to save the Ferret D-A for another project I have a Ferret inline bracket you can have. Keep it korect. :dance3:


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Support your "Local Racer."
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#43 Pablo

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Posted 20 October 2016 - 09:00 AM

Nice project Paul. I think the jaildoor drop arm with the Cox quick change would look better and complement the rest of your build.

 

You do qualify, Steve, thanks for helping me make that choice. Jaildoor w/ Quickchange it shall be. :good:

 

The helmet looks very dark blue to me; almost black but not quite.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe it is black and the dark blue of the car is influencing it :)

 

1967-Indy-Qualifying-Dan-74-Eagle138-700x458.jpg

 

Thanks for the offer Sam, but I'm going jaildoor. If you need the Ferret you know where it is......


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#44 slotbaker

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Posted 20 October 2016 - 05:32 PM

Paul, I'm pretty sure DSG's helmet was black.

 

There were a few of his early rides where he wore silver, or white, but he was famous for the black helmet.

 

He wore open face helmets up to the 68 Indy 500 and, 68 F1 at Nuremberg where he went full face Bellstar, in black..

 

It is well documented that DSG was the first to wear a full face Bell in a race car, but I've read that Swede Savage beat him to it the previous year, so maybe a bit of uncertainty there.


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#45 Pablo

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Posted 20 October 2016 - 06:06 PM

Steve, I found this photo and it convinced me :)

 

maxresdefault.jpg

 

So, thanks to you, I'll make the final coat on the helmet gloss black :yes3:


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#46 Pablo

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Posted 21 October 2016 - 05:56 PM

Drop arm is a blend of Cukras and Ursaner style. All rod, no wire. Outer rails act as flag stops.

Designed to use a Cox Quickchange flag. Weight is a genuine new Phase III

 

IMG_3368.JPG


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#47 Pablo

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Posted 22 October 2016 - 09:18 AM

Piece of .032 rod will prevent the hinge tubes from spreading when I solder them to the rails.

 

IMG_3374.JPG

 

 


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#48 Pablo

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Posted 22 October 2016 - 10:38 AM

Bodies with curved sides are always a challenge, but I have experience in this - here is how I eliminate guessing for a good fit.

Mark the lengths exactly where the pin tubes will go

 

IMG_3375.JPG

 

Cut a piece of something soft like a Q-tip shaft a little longer than the pin tube should be, and shorten it little by little until it fits perfectly.

In this case, my tubes are raised only 1/16" above the bottom of the body - plan accordingly.

Measure it, then cut a piece of 1/16 rod exactly the same length and use it to fine tune the length

 

IMG_3376.JPG

 

Lay the perfect size test piece next to the real tube. Now you know where to cut it, and you know it's going to be perfect

 

IMG_3378.JPG

 

 

 

 


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#49 Bill from NH

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Posted 22 October 2016 - 11:09 AM

Question: What's your reasoning for not taking the pintube length directly off the Q-tip shaft length? I know you have one. :)  Is it the shaft's flexability & that it might not be straight?


Bill Fernald

 

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#50 Pablo

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Posted 22 October 2016 - 11:52 AM

You're right, I do have a reason :) Thanks for asking. The idea is to minimize the amount of scratching the body, and avoiding stretching it to make the chassis fit.

 

The Q-tip shaft is soft and won't scratch - it just gives me a rough estimate of length.

It's about .100 OD whereas a pin tube is .063 - makes a significant difference with this amount of curvature.

 

Some scratching is inevitable in the fitting; I'm just trying to avoid it as best I can.

Can't buy another one of these at my local hobby shop for $1.39 if I screw it up :shok:


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