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What to do with a "crazy" Havlicek arm?


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#1 Mbloes

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 11:55 AM

"Crazy" in this case doesn't mean a ton of power - in fact, just the opposite.  This arm is an extremely mild 65-30 wind using old, open-style specs.  Less than an inch long and .495 in diameter, it mates perfectly with 25 year old NOS Alpha setup gear:

 

pieces.jpg

 

Then the motor is installed in an unobtanium Richard Mack / Andre Acker designed chassis.  Best part about this chassis, of course, is the provision for actual front wheels - in this case, my copyrighted drilled out, cut down Riggen wide ovals:

 

chassis.jpg

 

chassis 2.jpg

 

(Be sure to click thru for detailed goodness)


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Mike Bloes




#2 Mbloes

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 11:58 AM

Body is a Betta BMW.  I chose this body because this is my actual 1:1 car.

 

It's a little squashed for my taste, but what can you do these days:

 

bmw 1.jpg

 

bmw 2.jpg

 

cars.jpg

 

 

 

 


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Mike Bloes

#3 Mbloes

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 12:03 PM

Finally, I thought you would like to see a quick vid of this car in action on my track.

 

 

These are sub 4 second lap times on my 45' track.  

 

FYI, Falcon or retro type power in a similar chassis is just as quick on this track.  But what fun is that?

 

Thanks, John.


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Mike Bloes

#4 olescratch

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 12:51 PM

H Power in action!  Loved the video, and the pics of the assembly in progress.  Nice home track to be able to test your creations also. Thanks for sharing, hope you have more to share in the future.


John Stewart

#5 havlicek

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 01:44 PM

Love it Mike!  The chassis is super nice and (of course) I love that it has actual front wheels :)  Is that the arm you had me have ground to .490"?  Or was that someone else?  I have some of the bits for that type motor, but not for a full build.  I always wanted to build one up to see what's what.

 

-john 


John Havlicek

#6 Mbloes

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 01:50 PM

It was your arm (two, actually) that you built "from the ground up".  And that's also the one where you were afraid that there was a short in it.  But it runs fantastic.

 

Thanks again.


Mike Bloes

#7 havlicek

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 02:28 PM

Excellent!  Are those cobalt setups?  The magnets look like nickle plated solid neos.  Thanks for the info.

 

-john


John Havlicek

#8 Mbloes

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 02:37 PM

They are cobalt magnets.  They are single, cheap and chip easily (as you can see)  but they are EXACTLY what I want.  They are from a company called DMW and are about $14.00 for a pair.

 

Perfect for a mild application.


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Mike Bloes

#9 havlicek

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 06:23 AM

I don't know exactly what a complete motor would cost using this stuff, or even if enough of it is still around, but it sounds like a fairly "affordable" motor could be built using this...one that might cost around the same as a C can motor with ceramics.  I'll dig some to see what's what and maybe build one up.  I suppose checking the Alpha website is in order.  Thanks Mike and I dig your build!

 

-john


John Havlicek

#10 Geary Carrier

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 07:03 AM

John,

 

I see them wheels turnin'...

 

Mining for gold is done a pan at a time...

 

 

Thanks,

g


Yes, to be sure, this is it...


#11 Mbloes

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 01:21 PM

Ok, in response to PM's, here's how I do this.

 

First, the concept.  My track (above) can easily handle C-can power.  So then I thought, just put some mild arms in an old open setup to really get a nice tiny motor that is still manageable in a small / home track environment.  I had a couple of G12 arms that fit some old open setups that I had, but these are just a bit too much for my track.  That's when I had JH wind something milder that would still work.

 

First, I start with old, open cans / setups that are originally designed for .480 diameter arms.  Now this is just a fun motor - no racing - so there is no reason to go over the top on costs.

 

I use Alpha bent metal cans and old plastic endbells.  These are not listed on their website but I emailed them and they responded that they still have them in their vintage inventory.

 

Next, I use magnets from DMW Products.  They have two sizes and I use the thinnest ones - .070 thick.  Your can ID is like .635 so after you glue your magnets in you are left with a .495 hole - perfect for a .480 arm but not enough for my .495 special arm.  I then hone this out to .510.  Bigger arm + less magnet = less punchiness / more driveability.  I'm sure these are not the final word in magnets but they are singles and cheap at $14.00 a pair (Forget about all that Koford and Camen stuff at $50.00 per pair).

 

Bearings: I just use a standard 5mm ball bearing in the endbell.  For the can, however, I use a flangeless bearing so I can solder it flush to the inside of the can for maximum arm clearance.  These are not standard slot car bearings.  I think I get them at VXB.

 

The arm is a .950 in length and is a squeeze in this setup but I was very specific with all the dimensions to John.  Everything just fits and I wound up with the motor above.


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Mike Bloes

#12 Bill from NH

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 01:50 PM

Neat car Mike! I don't recall seeing your track before. I like how you got all that lap length in such a small space. :)


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#13 Mark Johnson

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 12:09 AM

very kool



#14 havlicek

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 06:16 AM

What I like about this is that, specs come and go, motors come and go...and sometimes it's really just a matter of getting next year's model.  This little motor of course has a bunch more potential, but Mike took the package and made it work for his application.  Of course, that he actually built the motor as well as figured how to repurpose the parts and make good use of them seems awfully cool.  Great stuff Mike!

 

-john


John Havlicek

#15 boxerdog

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 09:04 AM

So John, does "crazy" refer to the arm? The winder? The motor? Or just all of us?

 

Seriously, that is a very cool idea and a great car.


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#16 havlicek

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 03:51 PM

So John, does "crazy" refer to the arm? The winder? The motor? Or just all of us?

 

Seriously, that is a very cool idea and a great car.

Well Dave...since the fact that we're all crazy is well-established, I think Mike is referring to something else :)  I *think* what he means is that putting a #30 arm in a type motor that was used for the big guns not that long ago seems crazy.  I think it makes perfect sense, because this is no "ordinary" #30 wind, and in a setup like this, no doubt he's getting the most out of it that you can and keep it "sane".

 

-john


John Havlicek

#17 Mbloes

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 04:15 PM

Well said, John.

 

And thanks gents for all the positive comments and thanks Bill for checking my track out.


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Mike Bloes

#18 havlicek

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 05:15 PM

OK, so I rummaged around my box-o'-stuff and found this setup.  Looks like the can is machined from a billet, and the end bell (along with the can) had gobs of corrosion.  Instead of spending time cleaning the old end bell hardware, I stuck on some Koford stuff just to get an idea of where I'm at.  The can sort of fits a C end bell, although some measurements reveal that a C end bell slightly spreads the can sides by a few thousandths.  Installing a shaft while a C end bell is on there also reveals some misalignment, since the shaft is lightly bound.  When I install the original end bell, the shaft passes through the can and end bell perfectly.  So, even though I am sure I could make a C end bell work, I'd like to keep the original end bell...or a plastic equivalent if there is one that won't require fiddling.  ***The thing is, with both the original hardware, as well as the Koford stuff, I'm sure I'm missing some sort of insulators because the end bell registers a dead short.  The original end bell hardware had some thin brass strips under each side...short.  The Koford stuff came with some similar-looking strips, dead-short also.  So, what's the deal here?  Can I get something to insulate the hardware and/or is there a plastic end bell that will fit?

Oh and, a "regular" set of C ceramic magnets (*somewhere just under .150" thick) gives me a hole of around .517", which is certainly doable with a finished arm OD of anywhere from .495" to .500".

IMG_1761%20copy_zpsfgxtmmyd.jpg

 

The rust/corrosion was pretty heavy.  I got a good chunk of it off, but there's more to do.  I wanted to get it at least clean enough for someone to let me know what this thing is.

 

-john


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John Havlicek

#19 olescratch

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 07:29 PM

John, just a thought, remove the hardware and install the screws and check for a short.  The insulation for the screws may be worn enough to allow the screws to contact the endbell = short.


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#20 havlicek

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 05:42 AM

Hi John,

 

     Sure seems that way, but there's nothing between the hoods, paper thin brass bottom things and the aluminum end bell.  Even with non-conductive screws, it's a dead-short.  I'm going to make this into it's own thread to see if I can get more information.

 

-john


John Havlicek

#21 Hermit #1

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Posted 20 October 2016 - 11:08 PM

Did perhaps all the cleaning of that heavy corrosion remove just enough of the anodizing to allow the aluminum endbell to become conductive in places?  Worth taking a look...


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#22 havlicek

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Posted 21 October 2016 - 05:39 AM

Did perhaps all the cleaning of that heavy corrosion remove just enough of the anodizing to allow the aluminum endbell to become conductive in places?  Worth taking a look...

 

 

Hi Dave,

 

     I didn't clean the end bell at all, just the can.

 

-john


John Havlicek





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