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Proposed new rules for My Series 2017


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#1 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 03:13 PM

Since there appears to be a new steel stamped chassis coming out from JK which does not have uprights to mount a front axle and wheels, the following rules are being proposed.

 

1) Eliminate the requirement of a front axle and front wheels. (In which case, you must have a front wheel sticker or decal.)

 

2) Allow the racers to cut off the front axle upright on existing chasses. (This rule is being implemented so that the racers do not feel like they are at a disadvantage about having the upright while the new chassis does not have it.)

 

NOTE: All interior, bumper height, and body rules will NOT change.

 

Also NOTE: No rule changes to the JK Indy Car car class.

 

Motor rule change:

There is a very strong sentiment from track owners and racers that for the GTP class only, that the Hawk 6 should be allowed to be raced. The motor must remain completely stock; no modifications to the can, magnets, endbell, or endbell hardware. The only allowed changes are the you can:

1) solder in the can bushing,

2) epoxy in the endbell bushing,

3) balance the arm,

4) true the comm,

5) change out the brushes,

6) change out the springs for any three-coil spring.

 

You can NOT have the comm wrapped or time the endbell in any manner.

 

​So for the GTP car class, you have the option to run the Hawk 7 or the Hawk 6 motors. Personally, I really like the Hawk 6 motor with its better brakes, but you give up distance on every track call. So its a wash. When the Hawk 7 and Hawk 6 were both allowed in LMP, the Hawk 7 won several of the races.

 

What do you Florida racers think?


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Doc Dougherty
GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
My Series Spring 2016 4" NASCAR, JK LMP State Champion, and Endurance State Champion
My Series 2015 4" NASCAR, GTP and Endurance State Champion
​GRRR 2015 4 1/2" and F1 Champion
​GRRR 2013 & 2014 Evil Flexi Champion
1968 Cleveland Car Model Series race winner - Tom Thumb Raceway, North Royalton, Ohio
​1968 Hinsdale ARCO Amateur runner-up
1967 Parma Raceway Indy 500 Champion




#2 Danny Zona

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 03:32 PM

Loving the no front wheels rule.

I've been preaching this for a while. It made sense last year and still does today.

Thank you, JK, for forcing the issue!

I don't necessarily have an opinion on the rest of the rules. I'm cool with them either way. Of course I'm a diehard. LOL.


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#3 Wizard Of Iz

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 07:39 PM

I think every series and/or racing program stays strong by having a stable set of guidelines. But you have to evolve with the times. In other words, don't change what ain't broken and fix what is. 2017 will be the 11th year of racing under the My Series banner and there have certainly been a lot of tweaks/changes/evolutions to the Guidelines. Mostly for the good. And a few that were flops. Live and learn.

 

The front wheel rule seems to be the way flexi racing is heading across multiple series. Real tough to get the smoke back in the bottle... or the slot car motor :) .  And, I agree that the front wheel stickers look better than a lot of the fronts we currently run.

 

I've waffled more than a politician on whether I'm "for" or "against" allowing the front uprights to be cut off of existing chassis. On the "for" side, it would prevent some of the chassis/pan bends that happen when one car hits another. On the "against" side, we might be letting even more smoke out as the standing rule of the land has long been you're not allowed to remove chassis material. Tough to police exactly how much you can cut off. Perhaps a rule that you can bend them down but have to keep the upright.  

 

Either way... my opinion is that it's time for the change and, as DZ pointed out, it's convenient that JK forced the issue with their new chassis.

 

JK Indy Car - No changes. This spec class is easy, fun, and has proven to be quite popular.

 

4" NASCAR - No changes (other than the General Guideline change regarding fronts)

 

LMP by JK - No changes (other than the General Guideline change regarding fronts)

 

GTP - Change to allow the JK Hawk 6 as an optional motor to the JK Hawk 7. I'm a big fan of the JK Hawk 6 motor and would love to see it come back. At SCR&H in Jacksonville we raced them in our GT1/LMP class for three or four years and found them very reliable and very consistent - with a little straightforward blueprinting. (Glue the endbell bushing, make sure everything is lined up, and change the springs and brushes.)  For about $23 (motor + springs + brushes... are H6s still $17?) you have a fun motor that's rebuildable.

 

Other topics???    

 

I really enjoyed the combo races with GRRR. I hope they continue.

 

The race day got a little long some times with two divisions for each of the four classes. Perhaps figure a way to run three of the four each month?

 

Maybe someone can reach out to Greg Walker and see if we can have a discussion at the November race in Holly Hill.    


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#4 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 08:59 PM

Rollin: thank you. Very well said; I wish I could write like you.


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#5 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 09:11 PM

Goodbye fronts! Thanks, Doc and Rollin, I have two bullet H6 ready and waiting.  

Reduce flexi clearance to .050" - tested at Holly Hill no problem.

2017 - should be six commercial tracks in FL - are the two new ones to be invited?

Florida needs a punched King!

 


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#6 Jay Guard

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 09:32 PM

Here's my opinion on the proposed 2017 My Series rule changes...

 

1) Eliminate the requirement of a front axle and front wheels. (In which case, you must have a front wheel sticker or decal.)

Great, It's about time we got rid of the solid front axle!  What race car actually ever had a solid front axle anyway.  Also this will align our rules with other flexi racing groups.

 

2) Allow the racers to cut off the front axle upright on existing chasses. (This rule is being implemented so that the racers do not feel like they are at a disadvantage about having the upright while the new chassis does not have it.)

NOTE: All interior, bumper height, and body rules will NOT change.

Great, I totally agree with the above!

 

3) No rule changes to the JK Indy Car car class.

Great! I think this is a a needed "spec" class and should remain as is.

 

4) Motor rule change:

There is a very strong sentiment from track owners and racers that for the GTP class only, that the Hawk 6 should be allowed to be raced. The motor must remain completely stock; no modifications to the can, magnets, endbell, or endbell hardware. The only allowed changes are...

I don't agree with this change, I say we keep it simple and allow only the Hawk 7. If we allow the Hawk 6 it will just mean having to buy more different motors and probably require more time before the race trying out both types of motor to see which is better. Tuning time is short enough as is.  This change also complicates things for newbies.  'm pretty much going with "If it ain't broke don't fix it" in this instance.

 

5) I really enjoyed the combo races with GRRR.  I hope they continue.

The race day got a little long some times with two divisions for each of the four classes.  Perhaps figure a way to run three of the four each month?

I agree with this completely!


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#7 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 09:34 PM

Charlie, what two additional tracks are you talking about? Have these track owners ever contacted the directors of MySeries or have sent racers to the MySeries races? In addition, all tracks should have sufficient pit space and have a reasonable amount of parts, mainly bodies, motors, chasses, tires, axles, bushings, etc. I say these things as a racer. Personally, I would love to race at the track in Avon Park. But I see several major drawbacks to this being practical. 


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My Series Spring 2016 4" NASCAR, JK LMP State Champion, and Endurance State Champion
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#8 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 09:40 PM

Jay, I have heard from many racers. The unanimous opinion is that four car classes makes for a day that is too long. So we are all in agreement on this matter. In fact, three of the raceway owners say the same thing, as well as the Retro guys. So it's a foregone conclusion that we will have only three races each race meet next year.  However, I would like to make this topic the subject in a different thread.


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GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
My Series Spring 2016 4" NASCAR, JK LMP State Champion, and Endurance State Champion
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#9 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 10:11 PM

I heard Four Wide Slotcar Raceway is coming soon in Jax. Maybe November.  


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#10 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 10:57 PM

We will see what happens with the Jax track.


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GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
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#11 Wizard Of Iz

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 01:41 AM

I heard Four Wide Slotcar Raceway is coming soon in Jax.  Maybe November.  

 

In my opinion November is overly optimistic.

Steve is moving forward with his plans but at this point he only has a logo. And it's a really cool logo.

I recommended a location that is owned by a guy we were talking with last year when our rent went too damn high. I think Steve has zeroed in on it as a location that will be visible yet affordable, but that building is still under construction.

Not my circus, Not my monkeys these days... but one of the better ideas behind My Series was that raceways earn their race dates by sending racers to races. I don't think there's any question that Jacksonville racers continue to support the Series. The only question is when will Steve truly be up and running. But the dude has to get open first and I know firsthand that getting open can take a minute.


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#12 tonyp

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 05:35 AM

For the four GRRR/Myseries races I suggest the following.

Three classes.

We alternate race to race, one Retro class, two flexi; next race two Retro, one flexi, etc. I believe this is the fairest way to handle it. Four classes is just too long when we have a really good turn-out.


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#13 JK Products

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 08:47 AM

Thanks for your support, guys. 


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#14 John Streisguth

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 09:44 AM

Four classes is just too long when we have a really good turn-out.

 
That's a good problem to have!  :)
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#15 Jay Guard

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 08:51 PM

For the four GRRR/Myseries races I suggest the following.

Three classes.

We alternate race to race, one Retro class, two flexi; next race two Retro, one flexi, etc. I believe this is the fairest way to handle it. Four classes is just too long when we have a really good turn-out.


Good idea, Tony, I second this proposal for the summer race program, it makes perfect sense.
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#16 Biscuit

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Posted 30 October 2016 - 07:23 AM

Me and DZ pushed for the front wheels last year it got overwhelmingly turned down. Even a big war on here about front wheels. I thought it was established a car isn't a car with no front wheels so we stayed with front wheels??? I went out and bought like 20 pairs of front wheels... thought i was safe.... There is only one thing that could have changed everyone's minds and i should have known it. If this new chassis was Mosetti, would we change the rules or just ban the chassis? I think i know the answer LOL.


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#17 Danny Zona

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Posted 30 October 2016 - 09:26 AM

LMAO.


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Test, test, test and go test some more.
You're never fast enough!!! 💯

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Be a fountain not a drain.

It's not about being right, it's getting it right.

#18 Biscuit

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Posted 30 October 2016 - 10:13 AM

You think its funny??? I just had Jack powder coat 20 sets of front wheels cool colors and everything. Don't tell me this...


Mike Bresett proud Kelly racer

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#19 Danny Zona

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Posted 30 October 2016 - 10:52 AM

I told you front wheels don't belong on a flexi. You got caught up in the, "If it doesn't have front wheels it's not a car" propaganda.

Yes, I think it's funny front wheels on a flexi that don't even look like wheels or have a function or purpose type of dude.
Test, test, test and go test some more.
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#20 jimht

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Posted 30 October 2016 - 01:13 PM

"If it doesn't have front wheels it's not a car"

 
You know a slot car is one of those things that runs on a slot car track, right?
 
Didn't you mean: "If it doesn't have front wheels it doesn't look like a car"?  :laugh2: 


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#21 Biscuit

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Posted 30 October 2016 - 01:38 PM

Well I'm voting no on #1. I say we have to have front wheels. 


Mike Bresett proud Kelly racer

Afx home set apt #3714 back to back triple crown champion (oval, road course, drag strip) 1993-94

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2000 Fcr weekly race oval winner and 2001 Flexi nascar oval race winner

2003 Winged womp nerf fest champion (the one that caught the sponsors eye)

2007 scratchbuilt 1/32 s16c oval champion

Participation plaque champion 2011

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#22 Danny Zona

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Posted 30 October 2016 - 04:30 PM

Well I'm voting no on #1. I say we have to have front wheels.


You can persuade my vote if you hook me up with some powdered coated high performance flexi front wheels that don't look like wheels or even function.
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#23 Samiam

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Posted 30 October 2016 - 04:51 PM

Danny,

 

What is the present front tire rule? Do they have to touch and roll or just be there?


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#24 Biscuit

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Posted 31 October 2016 - 10:46 PM

No, their job is to be there and look cool. And mine are gonna look the coolest!! DZ's too maybe a couple more to swing the vote LOL.


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Mike Bresett proud Kelly racer

Afx home set apt #3714 back to back triple crown champion (oval, road course, drag strip) 1993-94

Mr Bills super slots stock t-jet track record holder

2000 Fcr weekly race oval winner and 2001 Flexi nascar oval race winner

2003 Winged womp nerf fest champion (the one that caught the sponsors eye)

2007 scratchbuilt 1/32 s16c oval champion

Participation plaque champion 2011

2015 Tuesday night race place practice champion (black lane)


#25 tonyp

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 06:26 AM

Requiring fronts would eliminate the new JK chassis which if faster would not be a bad thing. It would keep rules stable and not obsolete everyone's cars.

 

As an outsider I can see growth in My Series, which is good.


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#26 Danny Zona

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 11:02 AM

Danny,
 
What is the present front tire rule? Do they have to touch and roll or just be there?

20161103_115521.jpg
This is what front wheels and solid front axles essentially look like on our cars. This is what makes flexi cars look like an actual car to some who said no way to getting rid of this ridiculous looking wheels that have no function or even remotely look like any actual wheel. Lol
Also,the o-ring better be on the wheel that doesn't function or a racer will fail tech. LMAO. Very important rule for some.
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#27 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 01:04 PM

Nice front wheels Danny. I need to get some. However, what you said about the front wheels is not entirely accurate. Last year at this time, you and Mike, not you so much but definately Mike, insisted that My Series should adopted the entire rule set from the Outlaw series in Georgia. Mike went on rant after rant on this matter. For those who dont know, the rules for the Outlaw series for 4" NASCAR allows the bodies to be cut down to nearly nothing and no interior was required, along with the elimenation of the front axle and wheels. Some of us were in favor of elimenating the front wheels after warming up to the idea, however, a NASCAR body is not a NASCAR body once you chopped off the bottom half of the body and removed the interior. You guys might as well use a wedge type body used in wing cars. I know we come close to removing the front axle and front wheels last year, but everybody in the series, as well as the directors, wanted the 4" NASCAR bodies to still maintain the bumpers and interiors. We did adopt the same motor for 4" NASCAR and LMP (JK Hawk Retro) so that any racer can race in NASCAR then simply change the body and race in LMP. I know that some racers did just that.  So peace my friend and I hope you and Mike race with us in 2017 no matter how the rules turn out.


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1968 Cleveland Car Model Series race winner - Tom Thumb Raceway, North Royalton, Ohio
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1967 Parma Raceway Indy 500 Champion

#28 Danny Zona

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 02:36 PM

I'm strictly talking front wheels, Doc.

Nothing about bodies.
Test, test, test and go test some more.
You're never fast enough!!! 💯

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Be a fountain not a drain.

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#29 Danny Zona

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 03:35 PM

You know us though, Doc.

We race all types of rules set. Especially when racers are showing up.
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Test, test, test and go test some more.
You're never fast enough!!! 💯

Luck is the residue of design.

Be a fountain not a drain.

It's not about being right, it's getting it right.

#30 Zippity

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 03:51 PM

Slot cars are tripods, and In most cases, front wheels are a hindrance.

 

On F1/Indy/Open wheels cars, they give realism.

 

Long live the stickers :)



#31 Samiam

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 03:53 PM

If the fronts don't touch and roll, support the car, or even look " right ", then what are they there for? Looks? A sticker looks good. And doesn't mash up the body in a wreck. Fronts belong on Womps, F-1s, Hard Bodies, Vintage, Retro, and plastic cars. Modern " Flexi " cars just don't need 'em.

 

Not " My Series " . It's yours. Do what's best for the series.


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#32 Samiam

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 03:59 PM

Ron,

 

They may not need the two front wheels but they do need the two front chassis wings. So two plus two is still four. Not three. Tripods are inherently unstable. That's why Trikes were outlawed in the US. Giving rise to Four Wheeler ATVs.


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#33 MSwiss

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 04:08 PM

On something without skids, or much downforce, like a Retro F1 car, front wheels are definitely needed.
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#34 Zippity

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 05:00 PM

You are probably right.

 

I just hate seeing them get knocked out of alignment on a "newbies" car and that racer giving up all hope :(



#35 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 05:16 PM

Danny, you are an equal opportunity racer. And champion!


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#36 Biscuit

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Posted 06 November 2016 - 10:23 AM

Did you hear somewhere that everyone at the outlaw race had cut down wedge bodies in nascar because I don't remember seeing you there? I don't remember seeing a single wedged nascar body in fact me and dzs bodies were cut on the line and we ran just fine...

 

Anyways, yes the outlaw rules are easier for a beginner or a local racer to compete. Do you think having front wheels or a front bumper is gonna help the top racers win? No, it only gives them more things to get on point that the local racer may not even be able to get legal. Sure everyone can solder some wheels on but not everyone can flawlessly cut a body. Someone made a big fuss a while back because a few local racers didn't have a full 1/8 bumper. Is this real life??? Interiors should be required in my opinion but I can't tell you how many times I've grabbed a guys car to help and pulled a lb of useless tape out of there. The most important aspect of the rule set is the ease and amount of money it takes to put a car on the track. Saves money and hassle to me that is a plus but obviously everyone has their own opinions and some disagree.

 

There shouldn't be a front bumper rule with nascar it only causes issues with making it a hassle to race which drives people away. Like I said before it's not going to win someone a race. I can't tell you how many times I've been bounced for the o-rings. This past year I purposely never ran them to see if i could get through haha. I didn't want front wheels last year but I'm allowed to change my mind like everyone else. jk came out with a new chassis and I'm gonna be debbie downer like some people like to do every time me or dz has an opinion or input on the rules. I do go out of state to race so do you think I want the new chassis to be allowed?

 

Fortunately we changed the rules to make it a little cheaper with the motors because no new racer was spending that kind of money to be able to race. If the experienced racers and new racers are all kept under the same sets of rules the experienced ones are the ones who need to take a compromise much more often than not. Up to last year and even now some still don't get this concept about making it cheaper. Not in ways to dumb down the racing by banning everything not jk but by doing away with useless components and rules. 

 

Things are obviously going in the right direction with entries lets keep it going.


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#37 Danny Zona

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Posted 08 November 2016 - 12:10 PM

I can't say I remember seeing all the bodies, Biscuit.

But, I do remember 1st through 4th all where cut on the body lines. Which was me, James, Ralph and Biscuit.

Plus, we experimented with wedging nascar/GT1 bodies in different rule sets only to find out they where slower.

Something we actually tested and not assumed like many.
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#38 Mr. M

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Posted 08 November 2016 - 08:56 PM

Posted 29 September 2015 - 11:26 PM
This discussion reminds me of when I subbed for Bill Pinch at one of the USRA rule meetings in the early 1980's. The discussion was if the front wheels should touch and roll. The building consensus was to not require this. As you would expect, it was quite a discussion. Paul Pfeiffer was strongly opposed and offered that this would change slot racing forever. At the time, I did not see his wisdom, but I believe he was right. In the end, the change was made to not require this. Although subtle, this in my opinion, over time did have a negative impact. The point is, rule changes can have long lasting impacts, maybe negatively. Tread carefully here. Use the wisdom of the track owners wisely, their very existence depends on retaining their very thin base business.

Chris
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I posted this about a year ago. Same thought about removing the front wheels. If this obsoletes a bunch of existing hardware, how is this good for the business? Be careful here. What happens when a new body comes out designed to fit the new no front wheels chassis?
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Chris McCarty

#39 Samiam

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Posted 08 November 2016 - 09:47 PM

Racers will pony up the $29 and get a new state of the art chassis. And the money they save on fronts can be used to buy wheel stickers. The raceway can't sell new stuff if the new stuff ain't legal.

 

Front wheels matter, but if they don't do anything but hang there on a .032" axle then 86 'em.


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#40 Biscuit

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Posted 10 November 2016 - 10:26 PM

I remember when front wheels were useful on a turbo flex chassis. FLdiv2 had a 1/16 clearance rule on the front end and did surprise techs mid race but most places never required this. When the front axles used to be attached to the center section front wheels were useful even when there was no 1/16 front height rule. They used to be 5/8 in most classes and had to hang below chassis and now are either 1/2inch or not required. I think this aspect of scale racing has followed flat track style and isra with no fronts now the jk chassis doesn't even have uprights. Obviously this is the exact opposite of what the retro cars are with the thick axles and rubber tires that support the car. I enjoyed the extra aspect of setting the front wheels before they just flopped around on the pan. O-ring fronts may soon be extinct. Back when they were 5/8 wheels I would have rather them went the direction of 3/32 soldered front axles and small rubber fronts then none at all. I know of a couple racers at my track that won't race flexi cars because no front wheels. They are only interested in retro and the spec indy cars. Most new racers like seeing realistic rubber front wheels that look like front wheels. FCR was all I knew when I started and for a beginner the Indy cars seem to be a great concept with an entry level car with realistic front wheels. Would be cool if they had a dirt modified body for that chassis. 

 

Only proposal I have is no 1/8 front bumper rule in nascar. This is an extinct usra rule and as stupid as it sounds they don't even use nascar bodies anymore anyways. If we are worried about wedging bodies well we are already running the wedge hd nascar bodies so I think it would be fine. Now that there is 2 groups of racers in all classes maybe a rule or 2 can be different for 1 group or the next. 

 

 

More combo races, or make myseries and grrr the same weekends so it's like the 2 day state races we used to have. 8 or 10 races together and still trim to 1 day in summer like this year. 


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#41 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 02:48 PM

When are the rules and classes gonna be announced for My Series?  


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#42 Wizard Of Iz

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 06:55 PM

When are the rules and classes gonna be announced for My Series?  


Charlie, thanks for the reminder.

I'll make time this weekend.

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#43 Wizard Of Iz

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 08:49 PM

When are the rules and classes gonna be announced for My Series?  

 

 

I have the snapshot and the race dates posted.

 

I'm not sure of the class rotation though.


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#44 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 10 December 2016 - 07:08 PM

Rollin: Today, Ed, Marcus and Bill discussed the schedule for next year while they were at the Pinellas Park enduro. It sounds to me that there may be some huge changes to the schedule and which car classes will be run. Stay tuned.

 

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#45 Danny Zona

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Posted 11 December 2016 - 09:00 PM

Sweet.
Test, test, test and go test some more.
You're never fast enough!!! 💯

Luck is the residue of design.

Be a fountain not a drain.

It's not about being right, it's getting it right.

#46 Marcus P1 Raceway

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Posted 11 December 2016 - 09:22 PM

This is my suggestion that I talked to Ed and Bill about. Since the enduro races are the ones that gets the fewest participants, I say that we get rid of them and in their place put the same type of races from the first 4 months of the year being Indy, NASCAR, LMP, and GTP (only 3 classes per day). What do you guys think?
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#47 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 11 December 2016 - 09:58 PM

Marcus: Sounds good to me. However, the endurance races are the most competitive and fun races of the whole year, in my opinion. But if it will boost the attendance, I think your proposal is good. I think that since Ed, Bill and Greg have ovals, some good thought should be brought to bare concerning which car classes are run at each track. Also, the number of times we run each car class should be about equal. Again IMO.


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#48 Danny Zona

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Posted 11 December 2016 - 10:43 PM

This is my suggestion that I talked to Ed and Bill about. Since the enduro races are the ones that gets the fewest participants, I say that we get rid of them and in their place put the same type of races from the first 4 months of the year being Indy, NASCAR, LMP, and GTP (only 3 classes per day). What do you guys think?


I agree. Attendance drops off. It seems only a few race the endurance races consistently. Endurance racing is cool but more like fun learn a track type racing, IMO.
Test, test, test and go test some more.
You're never fast enough!!! 💯

Luck is the residue of design.

Be a fountain not a drain.

It's not about being right, it's getting it right.

#49 tonyp

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Posted 12 December 2016 - 08:23 AM

Maybe have one big endurance race like 12 hours like in the old days.


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#50 Jay Guard

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Posted 12 December 2016 - 09:52 AM

I like the idea of one long Enduro.  How about a 6 hour Enduro running IRRA Stockcars with an hour of night driving (i.e. car lights only).  You've got to really drive those and it wouldn't just be hammering GTP's around at near full punch the whole time.  Plus using a built chassis type of car there will probably be a few repairs needed for all of the cars.  That should make the race just that much more interesting.  Maybe even do a Pro/Am sort of thing so the teams aren't too uneven.


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