Jump to content




Photo

Another Retro novice question


  • Please log in to reply
24 replies to this topic

#1 John Good

John Good

    Rookie Keyboard Racer

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 36 posts
  • Joined: 06-March 16
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ashland, OH

Posted 06 November 2016 - 12:47 PM

Do plastic guides get fatigued over time, needing to be periodically replaced even if there is no sign of damage or wear?  Also, in your experience, which guides are the least likely to break or fail? Thanks in advance for your thoughts.






#2 Cap Henry

Cap Henry

    CHR Cars

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,480 posts
  • Joined: 25-October 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bellevue, OH

Posted 06 November 2016 - 12:48 PM

How long are you talking? And what kind of guides do you use?

Team PSC
Parma PSE
CHR Cars
JDR-Joe Dirt Racing


#3 Tom Thumb Hobbies

Tom Thumb Hobbies

    Posting Leader

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,044 posts
  • Joined: 16-October 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Planet Earth

Posted 06 November 2016 - 12:56 PM

Speaking for myself I can't say I've ever had a guide fail from fatigue. And I don't think I've ever used one long enough to wear t out. I normally use Parma or Cahoza guides and can't remember the last time I broke one.

 

From time to time there are "batches" of guides that are rumored to be brittle but, if true, I've been lucky enough to avoid them.


  • brnursebmt, tonyp and TG Racing like this

Mike McMasters
TTlogo300.jpg
460 Wilson Rd
Columbus, OH 43204
(614) 274-5150
Home of the ORIGINAL American blue King


#4 Dallas Jackson

Dallas Jackson

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 313 posts
  • Joined: 07-May 08

Posted 06 November 2016 - 01:40 PM

I've busted into the wall hard and broke the flag in two. I've got some flags for years that are still perking good.



#5 slotcarone

slotcarone

    Posting Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,240 posts
  • Joined: 23-January 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dutchess County, NY

Posted 06 November 2016 - 01:47 PM

Parma Blade is most popular and least prone to breaking.
  • Cheater and JerseyJohn like this

Mike Katz

Scratchbuilts forever!!


#6 Pat Skeggs

Pat Skeggs

    Race Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 586 posts
  • Joined: 02-March 13

Posted 06 November 2016 - 01:56 PM

The only thing that will wear out is the threads. Sometimes taking the guide nut on and off will wear it down and it could wobble a bit.

 

Other than that I have flags that are four years old.



#7 John Good

John Good

    Rookie Keyboard Racer

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 36 posts
  • Joined: 06-March 16
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ashland, OH

Posted 06 November 2016 - 01:57 PM

Cap:  

 

So far I have only used Cahoza. I broke one in what I think is a strange way. Another car came off during warm-up and hit my car in the doughnut, sending mine into the wall but not very hard. The guide broke at the very bottom of the post, well down from the bottom of the nut. And it was an extremely clean break. I'm guessing the impact from the car and not the wall broke the guide, but I really don't know.  

 

I've used that guide for hundreds and hundreds of laps, but never noticed any damage to it. It has certainly endured much harder hits than the one that broke it.



#8 Cap Henry

Cap Henry

    CHR Cars

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,480 posts
  • Joined: 25-October 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bellevue, OH

Posted 06 November 2016 - 03:12 PM

Could of just been a freak accident. I've never worn out a guide, but I typically don't keep my cars an overly long time.

Parma guides are the best IMO.


  • Cheater and TG Racing like this

Team PSC
Parma PSE
CHR Cars
JDR-Joe Dirt Racing


#9 Bill from NH

Bill from NH

    Age scrubs away speed!

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,160 posts
  • Joined: 02-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Boston, NH

Posted 06 November 2016 - 05:14 PM

I'm from the old school. I still boil nylon guides. We use to say boiling helped to relieve the nylon's stresses from being injected into molds.


  • Ramcatlarry and Matt Sheldon like this

Bill Fernald

Used puppets for sale!

No springs attached.


#10 usadar

usadar

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,099 posts
  • Joined: 12-January 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tokyo; Japan

Posted 06 November 2016 - 07:09 PM

Bill,

How long do you boil them?

Thanks in advance.

Haruki
Haruki Kan
Retro Tokyo
Retro Tokyo
Retro Tokyo on Facebook
 
Where do we go from here: chaos or community?

#11 Cheater

Cheater

    Headmaster of the asylum

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,544 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norcross, GA

Posted 06 November 2016 - 07:17 PM

A tool and die maker, who also owned a raceway for a number of years and had a lot of experience with nylon, advised me to boil nylon guides in glycol, i.e. antifreeze. Never tried it, but I thought I would throw this out there.

Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#12 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,402 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 06 November 2016 - 07:54 PM

It seems like there are a lot of brittle guides out there.

You can't go wrong with a Parma Blade or Koford graphite-colored ones.

FWIW, to go along with the boiling thing, in cold weather areas, guides will snap easier because of less humidity.
  • Ramcatlarry likes this

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder (pointless era - LOL) 
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#13 Cheater

Cheater

    Headmaster of the asylum

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,544 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norcross, GA

Posted 06 November 2016 - 08:05 PM

Couple of relevant links:

How To: Boost the Strength of Plastic Parts
 
Fixing brittle nylon product with water


Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#14 Tim Neja

Tim Neja

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,380 posts
  • Joined: 11-June 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Orange County

Posted 06 November 2016 - 08:13 PM

I"ve used the Parma cheap cut-down guides in all my cars - from GT12 to Retro to Hardbody racing with 200+ gram cars and have never broken one. I know it can happen, but those nylon flags are very tough. Others like Cahoza or Red Fox - and from what I"ve observed they are harder - but I've seen them break. Parma's flex and don't break for the most part, and seem to work well. FWIW.


  • MSwiss likes this
She's real fine, my 409!!!

#15 Matt Sheldon

Matt Sheldon

    Duffy HMI Executive

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,583 posts
  • Joined: 19-January 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Platteville, CO

Posted 06 November 2016 - 08:24 PM

I use a two-pot method: two cups of water with a tablespoon of vinegar boiled for one minute on all my guides and gears.

 

But honestly you cannot go wrong with the Parma guides. Scalewise I still use Red Fox for the extra 2-4 degrees of kick they offer.


Matt Sheldon

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


#16 Bill from NH

Bill from NH

    Age scrubs away speed!

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,160 posts
  • Joined: 02-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Boston, NH

Posted 06 November 2016 - 09:09 PM

How long do you boil them?

 
Haruki,

I bring them to boil for 3-4 minutes using an old Pyrex glass coffee pot. I tie a length of thread to each guide to keep them off the pot's bottom. After boiling, I remove the pot from the stove and let it cool naturally.
  • usadar likes this

Bill Fernald

Used puppets for sale!

No springs attached.


#17 Samiam

Samiam

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,789 posts
  • Joined: 18-January 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Long Island, NY

Posted 07 November 2016 - 06:54 AM

which guides are the least likely to break or fail?


The ones that everyone else was running Saturday at the Brawl.  :dash2:
Sam Levitch
 
When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything is a nail.
Support your local raceway, or you won't have one.
Slot cars are quad-pods.
Support your "Local Racer."
:laugh2:

#18 Rob Voska

Rob Voska

    On The Lead Lap

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 425 posts
  • Joined: 12-April 08

Posted 07 November 2016 - 07:26 AM

Threading the guide all the way to the bottom creates a stress point that will break. I always stop threading a little above the bottom of the guide because the thickness of the chassis guide tongue does not need threaded.

The only guide posts I break are in my threader... :cray:
  • Matt Sheldon likes this

#19 The Number of

The Number of

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,298 posts
  • Joined: 29-February 08
  • Gender:Male

Posted 07 November 2016 - 07:40 AM

   The boiling times? What are the times for soft boiled, hard boiled, and poached guides? :) 


  • Jason Holmes, Matt Sheldon and Samiam like this
Bill Fulmer

The lack of any credible evidence is proof the conspiracy is working!

#20 John Luongo

John Luongo

    Rookie Keyboard Racer

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 19 posts
  • Joined: 01-August 16
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Haverhill, MA

Posted 14 November 2016 - 07:38 AM

boiling time depends on what I am having for breakfast. usually, I will put the guides in a small pan of water. add 2 farm fresh eggs, bring water to a boil. cover, remove from heat and set timer for 12 mins. when done, throw out the eggs and eat the guides.



#21 Bill from NH

Bill from NH

    Age scrubs away speed!

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,160 posts
  • Joined: 02-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Boston, NH

Posted 14 November 2016 - 09:07 AM

John, do you add a pinch of salt? :to_become_senile:


Bill Fernald

Used puppets for sale!

No springs attached.


#22 Steve Deiters

Steve Deiters

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,793 posts
  • Joined: 28-May 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cincinnati, OH

Posted 14 November 2016 - 09:58 AM

One thing I do to "bullet-proof" a guide flag post is to "stake" it.  

 

Cut or grind the length of the post is determined (shortened) so it doesn't interfere with the body that is mounted above it. I then drill a slightly undersized hole for .047 or .055 wire in the center of the post.  Drill it deep enough so it passes down into the blade of the guide flag itself.  Make sure you are as perpendicular and centered as possible.  Not much material on each side of the blade so you want to minimize the potential of poking through one side or another of the guide blade. Once the depth of the hole is determined insert a length of rod into the hole an mark it.  Then cut that piece off slightly shorter...about the width of a cut off disc... than the depth of the hole.  I coat the stake or pin with Loctite for a little insurance although I think a press fit will probably be enough to retain it in its position.

 

Having this solid metal pin in place minimizes and possibly eliminates the shearing effect that can take place on the plastic guide post with a sudden impact between the guide post and the hole in the noose piece.  

 

I won't say this little modification is an absolute, but I have never lost a guide flag with this installed.  Takes about ten minutes or less to do, but it can make the difference between finishing a race or walking back to your pit box with a broken guide flag dangling from your car and the race for all practical purposes being over for you.



#23 Bill from NH

Bill from NH

    Age scrubs away speed!

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,160 posts
  • Joined: 02-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Boston, NH

Posted 14 November 2016 - 12:50 PM

Steve, I've used .047 piano wire held in place with CA glue & as you say, it does work. Once I get a guide nut adjusted properly, I Dremel an 'X' in the guide post's end, then use CA glue to stick the nut to the glide post. .I've never had a nut loosen up, if glued this way. Both tips sure beat, heating a washer & screw with a soldering iron to mushroom some of the guide post, like what we did before using guide nuts. :)


Bill Fernald

Used puppets for sale!

No springs attached.


#24 John Luongo

John Luongo

    Rookie Keyboard Racer

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 19 posts
  • Joined: 01-August 16
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Haverhill, MA

Posted 20 November 2016 - 02:04 PM

bill; I don't add a pinch of salt. but I do add a splash of white vinegar. it helps the guide and egg whites coagulate. of course, if its speed I am after, a bit of tobacco sauce helps. best, john



#25 Bill from NH

Bill from NH

    Age scrubs away speed!

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,160 posts
  • Joined: 02-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Boston, NH

Posted 20 November 2016 - 05:11 PM

I thought the splash of vinegar was added to Rit dye when you wanted to dye nylon things such as guides & endbells.


  • John Luongo likes this

Bill Fernald

Used puppets for sale!

No springs attached.






Electric Dreams Online Shop